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Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

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  • Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

    I hesitate to post this, as I question to quality of the source. However, it is still interesting enough that I thought that it may be good for a laugh or the patented “anti-spin”.

    The source is Wayne Madsen who is runs a Washington DC rumor website. If this is unfounded bunk; I'm trying to figure out what his agenda is.

    http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/articles/20080403

    Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

    April 3, 2008 -

    WMR has learned from knowledgeable sources within the US financial community that an alarming confidential and limited distribution document is circulating among senior members of Congress and their senior staff members that is warning of a bleak future for the United States if it does not quickly get its financial house in order. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is among those who have reportedly read the document. The document is being called the "C & R" document because it reportedly states that if the United States defaults on loans and debt underwriting from China, Japan, and Russia, all of which are propping up the United States government financially, and the United States unilaterally cancels the debts, America can expect a war that will have disastrous results for the United States and the world.

    "Conflict" is the "C word" in the document
    The other scenario is that the federal government will be forced to drastically raise taxes in order to pay off debts to foreign countries to the point that the American people will react with a popular revolution against the government.

    "Revolution" is the document's "R word"
    The origin of the document is not known, however, its alarming content matches up with previous warnings from former Comptroller General David Walker who abruptly resigned as head of the Government Accountability Office (GAO) in February of this year after repeatedly publicly warning of a "financial meltdown" disaster if America's $9 trillion debt was not addressed quickly. Financial experts have warned that the national debt, corrected for inflation, could reach $46 trillion in the next 20 years. A month earlier, Walker warned the Senate Banking Committee about the reaction of creditor nations in Asia and Europe if the U.S. did not address its debt problem.

    The point that stuck me odd in the article is why would the US unilaterally cancel its debt when it can just inflate the debt away? The article also states "if the United States defaults", however, the US will never default; the debts will get paid with increasingly worthless dollars (as noted by iTulip). I suppose we could have a situation where there is not a default in fact, but a default in good faith if we hyper-inflate our way out over months, rather than decades.
    Last edited by dbarberic; April 03, 2008, 09:03 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

    I agree weather we default outright or hyperinflate it away the effect on or creditors is the same from their point of view-------> theft
    We are all little cockroaches running around guessing when the FED will turn OFF the Lights.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

      Well if we are going to have "the R-word" we might as well do it right!

      http://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Man.../dp/0446537519

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

        Large countries can default on their debt -- or alternately, inflate their currency -- with no international political consequences.

        Why? Because the US has 12,000 nuclear weapons, ten carrier groups, and 1.2 million men under arms. There isn't anything that any other country can do about it.

        (Financial consequences are a different matter.)

        In terms of internal disorder -- people aren't going to revolt; they will embrace the government and cry for protection.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

          Originally posted by whitetower67 View Post
          Large countries can default on their debt -- or alternately, inflate their currency -- with no international political consequences.

          Why? Because the US has 12,000 nuclear weapons, ten carrier groups, and 1.2 million men under arms. There isn't anything that any other country can do about it.

          (Financial consequences are a different matter.)

          In terms of internal disorder -- people aren't going to revolt; they will embrace the government and cry for protection.
          find myself becoming a fan of yours. the folklore is that "the people" rise up!

          bullshit. without leadership the people will eat shit for generations.

          just ask the russians who have allowed their government to rape them again for the 123rd time in several centuries.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

            Originally posted by metalman View Post
            find myself becoming a fan of yours. the folklore is that "the people" rise up!

            bullshit. without leadership the people will eat shit for generations.

            just ask the russians who have allowed their government to rape them again for the 123rd time in several centuries.
            You're right. We are transforming into a nation uninformed, overweight, consumers and we love the government that is dismantling our country right in front of our eyes. So here's the question I've been asking myself: when does the raping start for us?

            When are they going to start filling those Haliburton built FEMA camps popping up all over the country?

            Blackwater recently recieved $1 billion to expand operations in the U.S., while being investigated for massacre in Iraq, and being sued by the NRA for gross violations of 2nd Amendment rights in New Orleans. How long before they're marching down my street?

            http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0

            http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=1

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

              whitetower,

              I'm not sure what a strong military has to do with an ability to default on debts. Could you fill in the blanks for me?
              Greg

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

                metalman,

                True enough about the Russians but I believe the psyche between russians and Americans is completely different. Americans may be able to be placated with cheap consumer goods but when they are unhappy they tend to make changes at the ballot box. And serendipitously,when the need for change is at its greatest, an appropriate leader comes from out of the blue. Not a revolution with blood in the streets, but over the years a very satisfactory mechanism to affect change.

                Our single greatest competitive advantage as Americans is our ability to innovate, both financially and politically.

                Greg
                Greg

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

                  Ah, but there is one huge difference between the US and Russia. In the USA we have guns. The founding fathers really did know what they were doing. Therefore, our "rapers of the people" have to be a lot more sophisticated in how they do it than Russia's. They've done an impressive job at convincing the American people they are on our side. I find it amusing that some Americans are just now waking up to the fact that they aren't.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

                    Originally posted by whitetower67 View Post
                    Large countries can default on their debt -- or alternately, inflate their currency -- with no international political consequences.

                    Why? Because the US has 12,000 nuclear weapons, ten carrier groups, and 1.2 million men under arms. There isn't anything that any other country can do about it.

                    (Financial consequences are a different matter.)

                    In terms of internal disorder -- people aren't going to revolt; they will embrace the government and cry for protection.
                    You clearly understand the imperial economic paradigm of the US. Now I'm also doubly sure why you understand Bush's insistence on succeeding in Iraq... lest our creditors become skittish and stop financing our improvident ways!

                    Unfortunately, the US military is irrelevant w.r.t China and Russia, since we've total MAD in those cases.

                    As for the US hoi polloi, they'll be stuffed into whatever policy container the establishment finds convienent.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

                      I doubt the existence of that document ("C & R"); since those that understand money know that the U.S. cannot default on its obligations since they are denominated in its own currency.

                      Furthermore, the currency of the U.S. is issued as a debt instrument, which creates its own demand due to the required debt service.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

                        Wayne Madsen is as disreputable as it gets IMO. I wouldn't believe a word he writes.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

                          Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise View Post
                          metalman,

                          True enough about the Russians but I believe the psyche between russians and Americans is completely different. Americans may be able to be placated with cheap consumer goods but when they are unhappy they tend to make changes at the ballot box. And serendipitously,when the need for change is at its greatest, an appropriate leader comes from out of the blue. Not a revolution with blood in the streets, but over the years a very satisfactory mechanism to affect change.

                          Our single greatest competitive advantage as Americans is our ability to innovate, both financially and politically.

                          Greg
                          i'll agree with that... i'm not as pessimistic as tombat on the american people. the russians have no tradition of a democratic system. it leads to big swings from good leadership to bad and back again, from left to right, and self-correcting as you say. the russians fear that the swings will go too far, they have no faith... with the experience of stalinism, can you blame them?

                          can fascism happen in the usa? here's where i agree with tombat. all fascist movements start with five main ingredients... a series of extraordinary events that make the population fearful and yearning for order and a return to the past, a political party headed by a charismatic leader/demagogue that runs on a platform of banging some heads together to fix things, the identification of a group within the society that is held responsible for the problems, a separate paramilitary group outside the law to enforce the will of that party against that group, and last but not least mass ignorance of how fascist movements start.

                          the comments on that video that video tomcat posted a link to say it all...

                          Solzhenitsyn brings up this point. You should read The Gulag Archipelago. Communism could have been stopped in Russia. The Nazis could have been stopped in Poland. All it would take is for people to be willing to die when they realize they have nothing to lose anymore:

                          "And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if ... in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?" -The Gulag Archipelago

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

                            Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                            Ah, but there is one huge difference between the US and Russia. In the USA we have guns. The founding fathers really did know what they were doing. Therefore, our "rapers of the people" have to be a lot more sophisticated in how they do it than Russia's. They've done an impressive job at convincing the American people they are on our side. I find it amusing that some Americans are just now waking up to the fact that they aren't.
                            here's a piece of evidence to back up your point.

                            European Finance Ministers Urge Efforts to Cool Inflation, Warn of Price Spiral

                            BRDO PRI KRANJU, Slovenia (AP) -- European officials warned Friday that governments must act to curb a possible inflation spiral as record-high price increases risk hurting people on low incomes.

                            High prices for oil and food pushed inflation to 3.5 percent in March, far above the European Central Bank's guideline of 2 percent.

                            European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet signaled a determination to keep interest rates on hold, saying "price stability is something which is essential for the poorest and the most vulnerable of our citizens."

                            "They cannot protect themselves against inflation," he said after he joined euro finance ministers for talks. "It is extremely important that we understand that moderation today is necessary if we want to deliver price stability in the medium term."
                            i ask... can you imagine the fed admitting a) an inflation spiral is brewing or is in place and b) that "record-high price increases risk hurting people on low incomes, and c) acting on it?

                            can it be any more obvious people who our government represents?

                            in typical usa fashion the oppression is directed at those with limited means to defend themselves politically or legally.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Confidential document said to warn of conflict or revolution ahead for America

                              Originally posted by WDCRob View Post
                              Wayne Madsen is as disreputable as it gets IMO. I wouldn't believe a word he writes.
                              Agree... but then what is his agenda by spreading this rumor; this is pretty different than his typical fair on prostitutes, etc?

                              Comment

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