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  • Today We're All Irish

    Another article by Ellen Brown - TODAY WE'RE ALL IRISH: DEBT SERFDOM COMES TO AMERICA

    "Today we're all a bit Irish!" This may be truer than we know. The Irish were driven to America by debt, and they are leading the Western world in household debt today. The London Daily Telegraph reported on March 13, 2008 that household debt in Ireland has reached 190 percent of disposable income, the highest in the developed world; and that the Irish banking system is suffering such acute strains from the downturn in the housing market that it may have to nationalize its banks. The same may soon be happening in the United States, and for much the same reasons.

    Debt Drives the Irish to America

    A short review of the history of the Irish in North America reveals that few were here before 1845, when a disease struck the potato crops of Ireland, wiping out the chief or only source of food for many poor farmers. Famine continued for the next five years, killing over 2.5 million people. "God put the blight on the potatoes," complained the Irish farmers, "but England put the hunger upon Ireland." Farmers who were heavily in debt were shipped to England to pay the rent owed to their landlords. Impoverished Irish immigrants saved what little money they could to send family members across the Atlantic, traveling on overcrowded ships on which many died of disease or hunger on the way. When they arrived, the Irish men had to fight – often physically – to get labor jobs involving long hours and low pay; while the women worked mainly as servants (called "Brigets") to upper-class families. Despite their very low wages, they managed to send a bit of money back to their families, until other family members had enough to buy the ship tickets to America. In the American South (mainly New Orleans), the Irish lived in swamp land infested with disease. Here, Irish men were looked upon as actually lower than slaves. As one historian put it, if a plantation owner lost a slave, he lost an investment; if he lost a laborer, he could always get another. Because the Irish workers were plentiful and expendable, they were often sent in to do dangerous jobs for which the slave-owners were reluctant to send their valuable slaves.

    "Debt Slavery" Replaces Physical Slavery

    This form of "debt slavery" or "debt peonage" was not just an accidental development of history. It was a deliberately-planned alternative to the slave arrangement in which owners were responsible for the feeding and care of a dependent population, and it is still with us today. Although European financiers were in favor of an American Civil War that would return the United States to its colonial status, they admitted privately that they were not necessarily interested in preserving slavery. They preferred "the European plan": capital could exploit labor by controlling the money supply, while letting the laborers feed themselves. In July 1862, this ploy was revealed in a notorious document called the Hazard Circular, which was circulated by British banking interests among their American banking counterparts. It said:


    Slavery is likely to be abolished by the war power and chattel slavery destroyed. This, I and my European friends are glad of, for slavery is but the owning of labor and carries with it the care of the laborers, while the European plan, led by England, is that capital shall control labor by controlling wages. This can be done by controlling the money. The great debt that capitalists will see to it is made out of the war, must be used as a means to control the volume of money. To accomplish this, the bonds [government debt to the bankers] must be used as a banking basis. . . . It will not do to allow the greenback, as it is called, to circulate as money any length of time, as we cannot control that.
    .
    .
    .
    (contd.)

  • #2
    Re: Today We're All Irish:

    I repeat: debtors' prisons. Everything old is new again.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Today We're All Irish:

      .
      Last edited by Nervous Drake; January 19, 2015, 03:23 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Today We're All Irish:

        Originally posted by tree View Post
        I repeat: debtors' prisons. Everything old is new again.
        ...You load sixteen tons, and what do you get?
        Another day older and deeper in debt.
        Saint Peter, don't you call me, 'cause I can't go;
        I owe my soul to the company store...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Today We're All Irish:

          GRG - here you go

          Another good one!
          Last edited by Rajiv; March 25, 2008, 01:04 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Today We're All Irish:

            Originally posted by Nervous Drake View Post

            I can't even discuss these ideas with anyone in the real world because it is so depressing. So we all talk about Family Guy.
            Agreed, but I have made some progress. I used to tell every one I worked with that "this is BS or look at this crap". Now I have people running up everyday and showing me, "can you freaking believe this shit!?!?". I kid you not. I just got back from leave and had at least 10 people come up and say "can you believe that crap about Bear Stearns!"

            1 year ago, most people I work with could not SPELL Bear Stearns. Now I have people who come up and complain about how this action will impact their finances via various transmission mechanisms.

            I've had a lot of folks reject what I tell them out right only to come back later and say #1 "Thanks", and #2 "NOW that I know what's going on I"M FREAKING (okay, seriously I'm in the military we say "*******" a lot) PISSED OFF!!!!!"

            That happens for a couple of reasons:

            1. I'm able to decipher and simplify events to a level that they can grasp.

            2. I'll make predictions along the lines of "Well if I'm correct in what I'm saying you should see x,y, or z". And when those things happen, I reinforce the point by reminding them, "see I showed you how this would occur and now it has."

            3. Finally, and this is most importantly, I will challenge people's economic orthodoxy. I will chew up and shit out their thinly grounded MSM parroting and point out the flaws that even the most inept boob could see through.

            If you want to help people "think" out side the box. They first have to know that there is a box and that they are the ones who put themselves in it, or allow it to continue due to their exorbitant ignorance.

            Yes, what we face is GRIM, no argument. Don't let that be an excuse to NOT FACE IT, nor an excuse to NOT try to shape the future. Fatalism is FATAL. An overdose of economic reality is not, but it is depressing.

            I would not shy away from the educating people that you refer to. Instead of going down the inane road of pop-culture like the rest of folks be different, tell people what's what, don't be afraid to stand out. That you think about this stuff makes you a leader, and we will NEED LOTS of properly equipped and well reasoned leaders in all capacities to deal with this mess. Take some civic pride in making your country a better place. She can afford no less, and YOU WILL ENJOY IT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE YOU DO! At least I have in the small crater that is my sphere of influence.

            P.S. Get laid more, it clears the mind and gives you something to live for. Flight checked that about 45 min ago. (don't tell the wife I said that)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Today We're All Irish:

              Oh no. GRG55 waxing poetic again and Rajiv egging him on. This will come to a messy end ... ;)
              Last edited by Contemptuous; March 25, 2008, 02:02 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Today We're All Irish:

                .
                Last edited by Nervous Drake; January 19, 2015, 03:23 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Today We're All Irish:

                  Originally posted by Nervous Drake View Post
                  jtabeb,


                  Just a couple weeks ago was the first time I ever turned down a lay. I must be maturing

                  People don't want to hear you flat out say "You are fucked and we're going to be in a lot of pain for a long time," when it's just not that obvious yet.
                  As to point 1. Never turn down a lay, you will be married with kids someday and will see the logic of this only then:cool:

                  As to point 2. People don't want to hear you flat out say "You are fucked and we're going to be in a lot of pain for a long time,"

                  Just because they don't want to hear it DOES NOT MEAN that you shouldn't tell them.

                  TELL THEM!

                  Only after many repeated bludgonings with reality do people come to accept it. Don't let their acceptance of you (or their lack thereof) dictate your actions. You know what's right and what's wrong.

                  DO THE RIGHT THING!

                  You won't feel good about yourself unless you do. And WHEN you do, you will feel the best you have felt in your entire life!

                  So stand proudly on your soapbox and let her rip my friend.

                  And remember the immortal words of Smokey Bear

                  "Only YOU can prevent catastrophic worldwide geopolitical and financial collapse!"

                  (Actually, I said that)

                  JT

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Today We're All Irish:

                    Debt Slavery was also part of the equation here in Mexico during the dictatorship of Porfirio Díaz. The elements were there, tickets instead of money as payment, company lent housing, and company stores. The system was abolished in paper and law by Mexican Revolution, but still represents an everyday stance, although not on the same levels, in several remote rural areas.

                    Todays system of consumerism based debt slavery is taken as non avoidable by lots of people, almost everywhere in the world, and is not seen as such, mostly as a result of "status positioning" or "to stay with the trend".

                    We see everyday and everywhere people complaining about their debt levels, but not adjusting their expenses to stay afloat of it all ¿Why? It all is part of the system, I hear the same people that complains from debt voicing about their acquisitions, new toys, vacations and such, spitting bonars and varos (Central Mexico slang term for Mexican pesos) in every phrase, and only shake my head.:rolleyes:
                    sigpic
                    Attention: Electronics Engineer Learning Economics.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Today We're All Irish:

                      ^ How's the economy there?

                      The Brits are in more trouble than the U.S. It makes me wonder why the pound is so strong against the dollar. Sure, the dollar's going down, but it's not like the pound is any better long-term.

                      "The average British adult has 2.8 credit or debit cards, more than any other country in Europe.
                      A growing number are borrowing to pay for vacations, furniture, even plastic surgery.
                      As a result, Britons are spending more than they earn, racking up a household debt-to-income
                      ratio of 1.62 compared with 1.42 in the United States and 1.09 in Germany."


                      http://biz.yahoo.com/nytimes/080322/...4005.html?.v=1

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Today We're All Irish:

                        Originally posted by Nervous Drake View Post
                        jtabeb,
                        People don't want to hear you flat out say "You are fucked and we're going to be in a lot of pain for a long time," when it's just not that obvious yet.
                        I have been posting paper copies of some of iTulip's more important survey articles, and some of my own charts, on the window of my office for several years now. These economic issues are a frequent topic of conversation among my close friends (a group self-selected to be interested in this sort of thing), but I don't get much of a rise out of my co-workers.

                        I don't think it's because my co-workers are stupid. Instead, they have an instinctive wariness about extreme claims. They aren't particularly well-informed on economic matters themselves, so they can't judge the plausibility of my arguments on the technical merits. Faced with the choice of accepting what I say on the basis of my (quite limited) prestige, or of remaining skeptical, given the extraordinary nature of the claims, they assume things can't possibly be THAT bad. And rightly so! If they believed everyone who talked a good line, they'd have bought into every fad diet, bogus product scare, and get-rich-quick scheme in the last generation. It's only by passing on predictions which are consistently right (as jtabeb says) that one can gain the credibilty required to get your acquaintances to listen.

                        jtabeb is also right that we must fight the good fight, and try to do the right thing. However, we can't educate people if they tune us out as "doomers". And, for my part, I think a truly Mad Max outcome is a very low probability... an outcome I'm prepared for, but not one I'd try to get my co-workers to imagine. For now, I think it's sufficient to get them to imagine that the housing market won't bottom quickly, that their standard of living is most likely going to fall, and that we can't possibly honor all the entitlement commitments we've made.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Today We're All Irish:

                          Originally posted by rj1 View Post
                          ^ How's the economy there?

                          The Brits are in more trouble than the U.S. It makes me wonder why the pound is so strong against the dollar. Sure, the dollar's going down, but it's not like the pound is any better long-term.

                          "The average British adult has 2.8 credit or debit cards, more than any other country in Europe.
                          A growing number are borrowing to pay for vacations, furniture, even plastic surgery.
                          As a result, Britons are spending more than they earn, racking up a household debt-to-income
                          ratio of 1.62 compared with 1.42 in the United States and 1.09 in Germany."


                          http://biz.yahoo.com/nytimes/080322/...4005.html?.v=1
                          Hmmmmm I have been thinking about this for a while....Short the pound against the yen? I had 3 reasons
                          1. General malaise growing in Bitain..falling RE values
                          influencing the BOE to reduce interest rates
                          2. General dislocation within the financial world. The Brits
                          depend on the financial world more than anyone else
                          3. Rapidly declining production from North Sea fields.
                          Given that these rescued the Brits from near bankruptcy
                          in the first place, it is likely to be catastrophic. This
                          perhaps is more medium term. Neverhteless, a CAD
                          problem in conjunction with lower interest rates might
                          provide "interesting times"

                          I guess one of my problems in this is then depositing margins with a financial institution that I am not sure is going to survive. I have just closed out a number of positions because of this fear despite believing that I had a lot more money to be made in the position.
                          I'd be pleased to hear why this short might not work if anyone has any ideas.
                          Cheers

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Today We're All Irish:

                            Dude, you're funny as hell. (My first posting here)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Today We're All Irish:

                              Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
                              As to point 1. Never turn down a lay, you will be married with kids someday and will see the logic of this only then:cool:

                              As to point 2. People don't want to hear you flat out say "You are fucked and we're going to be in a lot of pain for a long time,"

                              Just because they don't want to hear it DOES NOT MEAN that you shouldn't tell them.

                              TELL THEM!

                              Only after many repeated bludgonings with reality do people come to accept it. Don't let their acceptance of you (or their lack thereof) dictate your actions. You know what's right and what's wrong.

                              DO THE RIGHT THING!

                              You won't feel good about yourself unless you do. And WHEN you do, you will feel the best you have felt in your entire life!

                              So stand proudly on your soapbox and let her rip my friend.

                              And remember the immortal words of Smokey Bear

                              "Only YOU can prevent catastrophic worldwide geopolitical and financial collapse!"

                              (Actually, I said that)

                              JT
                              This is the logic behind iTulip's approach of using parody and humor to covey a grim reality. When we re-opening March 2006 NYTimes accused us of getting too grim and we did because it was time to take it up a notch,. We created lots of Scared Straight type movies to go with our scary editorial. Now the NYTimes might say we're too light hearted, and some have said, "Why didn't you tell me?"

                              Talking to the indebted and the folks 100% in the stock market is like talking to alcoholics: they don't want to hear it. They might listen to it coming from a close friend who they know has their interests at heart. That's why iTulip can't lie and can't sell crap. Friends don't lie to you or sell crap to you.
                              Ed.

                              Comment

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