Who is shorting Gold?

[SeanO]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

[B]
The problem that no one is focusing on right now is the tracking of the mortgage itself to the structured product, which has broken down. That means in these items many can’t connect the underlying mortgage to the structured investment product (derivative).
So far courts have held that the only entity that can foreclose is the entity that actually lent the money. The average guy does not know that with an attorney to protect him he has a free house!

From what I've seen on these cases Sinclair is misinterpreting the headlines. The issue has not been to find the "entity that actually lent the money", it is to be able to show that the attorney (trustee, in deed of trust states) represents the lender "on title". Pretty simple fix on that front, just go back and record the required missing documents - the folks that won these cases may have gotten a temporary reprieve, but I have yet to see any credible stories of "free houses".

Sean

[Guest]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

When an OTC derivative fails to perform, notional value becomes real value. The notional value of all OTC derivatives exceeds $500 trillion.

Goldisliberty -

I also check in with Sinclair regularly to get his take on things. He's brilliant and from what I understand as a layman he's fairly well connected. It pays to listen to Jim Sinclair.

Having said that he writes with some of the most obscure language. I find myself reading half his posts literally six times over to pull out the points he's making. Sinclair is "thunderous" in his condemnation and analysis, while iTulip, in the hands of E.J. and the senior contributors are more "delicate". Delicate is a misleading term though as these iTuliper's are picking apart the carcasses of failing (all the "dead men walking") and defunct financial institutions with the sentimentality of an forensic surgeon conducting an autopsy of a cadaver (pass the high speed buzzsaw please - scalpel!).

In spite of making sometimes harsh sounding challenges (that's just the way I communicate because I have poor manners - sorry!), I extend my full respects to C1ue, who is one of these archetypical, slightly cold-blooded iTulip financial cadaver dissecters (I surmise C1ue likes to pick through the cadaver entrails to figure out exactly what the deceased bank ate for it's last supper, like an entomologist reslishes collecting skewered bugs. :rolleyes.

But in light of Sinclair's summary above, and in a typically iTulip response, I think someone like Finster for example would be inclined to pick this phrase apart, with an eye to letting out a little of the steam: << When an OTC derivative fails to perform, notional value becomes real value. >>

Much of Sinclair's observations above, as to the quantity of inflationary chips on the table which will require oceans of fiat paper to close out, hinges on this one sentence - but probably strictly speaking that $500 trillion of notional value does not automatically become real value - so there's some room in there to pin Sinclair back into his chair a little bit?

Having said that, in the broadest lines Sinclair is a formidable proponent of the simple idea that this entire mess resolves itself in terms of a degree of currency debasement which understatement might call "very rapid". He's fantastic in the amount of time he makes himself available to the public with lots of really good guidance. The man has a real degree of selflessness in his message.

The very fact that Sinclair makes this central to his entire view of what's to come, at least from an iTulipers perspective, seems a quantum leap ahead of the Mish's and Ackerman's understanding of how things will play out, and most notably, a quantum leap ahead of the Prechter's of this world, who get a hell of a lot of press and propagate some really wobbly interpretations (in my view anyway). Sinclair has it right, and these other zippity doo-dahs have it most egregiously wrong.

The best part of iTulip is that we have people here who take can take Sinclair's own thesis of currency debasement and can parse it down actually a lot more precisely than Sinclair, in that they pick apart precisely which strands of the above "500 Trillion notional value" are going to really command the issuance of fresh fiat to close out. This is the kind of nitpicky, detailed forensics that brings out the hidden wonk in so many of the great contributors here, and we have some truly formidable wonks in this community! ( :p ).

I think iTulip is very much on the same page as Sinclair - but they write better, and make some of the really complex parts real clear so that the rest of us average joes and joettes are steadily getting a stronger grip on what's developing. Still, in moments of doubt, like after this hellacious PM correction, Sinclair's "fire and brimstone" together with the quite evident ring of authority in his general grasp of the broad trend of events, helps us to get back on the main track.

We need, when all is averaged out over the next decade, to stop hopping around perennially anxious about second-guessing KA, and position the bulk of our assets steadily and calmly for - I N F L A T I O N. You and I may think this. Others here may not. We'll keep plugging that viewpoint, and over the larger span of time, I'm betting we'll be in the right, most of the time.

[c1ue]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

Central banks and the hedges have had seven years during which time they've strenuously exercised themselves to exert an influence upon the gold price sufficient to protect their interests (beat back serious challenges to their FIAT money's acceptance in the world). Their interests have taken a beating in the process - yet you maintain they have not yet really tried?

Methinks you need better arguments.

Until we see legislation specifically targeting the price of gold, or confiscation, I completely disagree that CBs and the government have failed to attack gold as a disagreeable countersign to dollar devaluation.

As for hedgies, again you betray a complete loss of memory.

Why would a hedge fund plonk around with gold in 2000 with the Internet going strong?

Or in 2003 as the commercial/residential real estate bubble swelled?

Or in 2005 as LBOs exploded?

And where is the game to play now?

Methinks you continue to hide behind the skirts of others.

[Nervous Drake]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

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[Guest]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

Methinks you continue to hide behind the skirts of others.

You can have it your way C1ue, I'm not worried to be clutching onto any Mamas apron strings. As long as Mama's smart, and heading in the right direction, I'm happy. ;)

[jimmygu3]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

We've heard a rumor of gold to $800 from several sources. Anyone else heard this?

Fred, any update from your sources on the $800 gold rumors?

[nathanhulick]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

Not me - I dig conspiracy theories.

Blue Horseshoe *loves* GLD @ 75. I repeat: Blue Horseshoe *loves* GLD @ 75. ;)

-Ant

John has a long mustache! John has a long mustache!

[rabot10]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

C1ue -

With respect, you are omitting the larger parentheses in your observation. All of this highly effective shorting, which you posit has a stranglehold on the precious metal, has been waging a quite evident rearguard action against the price for the past seven years. What do you prove about the overwhelming power of shorting if it's been losing massive ground to the spot price for so many years in a row?

I never do understand why you take up these admittedly highly articulate and wonkish arguments, buttressed by apparently unassailable data but so often build arguments from the short term data. When the larger premise (soaring silver price) negates any theory of effective price-capping, even if your short term data seems to overwhelmingly support the validity of shorts controlling the price, it's in fact easy enough to observe that they don't merely by dialing your observation out a few years, no? The price capping you are talking about is short term, within a longer term trend of evident failure of price manipulation. Any ten year chart reveals it at a glance. Isn't this evident?

Ya what he said!!

[Guest]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

Inflation is such a problem, against such a robust global infrastructure build-out (that just won't quit) as background, that base metals may well remain in a bull market through the next two-three years. Think how many endless reams of pages we've read in the past year, all categorically and ominously predicting the gawd-almighty crash in base metals as the US economy imploded.

(With one or two exceptions) Wurz da big bada-boom base metals crash at guys? US has been presumably in recession since late last year! So wurz da crash at?

The flat to down metals in this list are Copper, Nickel and Uranium, and they were all three the biggest high-flyers, so are expected to show more subdued action. Overall, this set of metals puts the lie to base metals declines, and it puts the lie to a global recession too.









I'm seeing various calls for $1200 gold by year-end (30% upside. What? Not again!? Whew!). Where does that put fleet-footed Rodney-Dangerfield Silver? Meanwhile John Williams at Shadowstats is sounding a little more apoplectic about inflation with every passing week ... fasten yer seatbelts.

[waysouth]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

You dont need conspiracy theories to see a lower gold target here based on market action

In particular gold stocks are very weak relative to the gold price

A strong possibility is they are forecasting a significantly lower gold price going forward

Analysis of the gold chart suggests a move to $750 is in the making

[Guest]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

Analysis of the gold chart suggests a move to $750 is in the making

Already factored in. We're looking out past the next 3-6 month correction.

[waysouth]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

looking past correction..?

unless you are Merlin how would you tell a correction from a reversal in advance?

[Guest]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

We had this discussion a few days ago on another thread.

[waysouth]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

damn...didn't qualify for omniscience when i joined up..so where do you get that?

[Guest]

Re: Who is shorting Gold?

damn...didn't qualify for omniscience when i joined up..so where do you get that?

Waysouth - sorry, I'm still at work right now. Putting in a long day, so I can't dig this up just yet. Will try to retrieve for you in a day or two as I'm going to be really frazzled when I get home.

I got sucked into posting a comment here when I should be working -because the name "PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS" appeared in my peripheral vision, and "everything just sort of faded into blurry shades of black and red" as I slid into a paroxysm of dislike for the little rat.

I'd like a dart board with that punks face painted on it. That would be fun. Sorry, wandering a bit here ... :eek: