New Covid-19 Thread

[shiny!]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

what you describe, shiny, is comparable to an isolation ward, for people who have an extremely contagious disease. and i don't think a "concentration camp" normally restricts its residence to 14 days. arrangements can be made for others to care for pets for 2 weeks.

The Holocaust began with little things. "Reasonable demands" made by the government to "keep people safe." Gun control to keep people safe from "gun violence" disarmed the Jews so they could not defend themselves. Mandatory registration with the police led to "Your papers, please!" which eventually led to total restriction on travel (we're there now). Then government shut down their businesses, putting them out of work (we're there now). Then it was Yellow Stars of David sewn onto garments, and all the indignities and hardships that led to (Covid-19 passports, anyone?).

The Jews bearing the brunt of this were so civilized, so gentle, so decent (like you, jk!), they simply could not conceive of evil in others. With each new restriction they resigned themselves, told themselves it wasn't so bad, convinced themselves it wouldn't get worse. After all, they were citizens!

The government even told them that the internment camps to which they were being taken were for their own good. It'll be nice! It'll be like a country club! By the time they realized that they had lost ALL their freedom it was too late to escape. Their denial got them killed.

The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater. -Frank Zappa

Since 9/11, in order to fly we've had to show papers and submit to massive indignities at the hands of the TSA. And it doesn't even keep us safe. It's just security theater. Temporary measures? Hardly! But it conditioned us to bend over and take it.

Surveillance cameras are everywhere now, purportedly to keep us safe from crime. Covid-19 authorities want to put cameras inside your home to make sure you stay in your room! Will you take it?

The ONLY way to make a free society accept imprisonment is to make them afraid of freedom. Covid-19 was the perfect vehicle.

Our businesses have been arbitrarily and capriciously shut down. People denied their livelihoods. Do you know that for every 1% that unemployment increases almost 40,000 people die? So this is not about saving lives. This is about controlling lives.

Practically overnight we became accustomed to lockdowns and travelling with papers showing we're "essential workers."

Covid-19 tracking apps on phones, first optional, now mandatory in many places.

Mandatory home lockdowns of millions of HEALTHY people progressed to people being removed from their homes and held in "isolation wards" at gunpoint.

Now their HEALTHY relatives are being forced to go, too. You can say that it's not a concentration camp because people are allowed to leave after 14 days, but in these "facilities" people are only allowed to leave when the people with the guns say they can. The word "Allowed" is a giant red flag for me. Right now they're allowed to leave in 14 days, but the people paying the men with the guns can change their mind at any time, and when that happens there won't be a damn thing that the inmates can do about it.

And don't think it can't happen. A year ago, did you think any of this would be happening?

Covid-19 vaccines are going to be rushed out without longterm safety data, with the manufacturers guaranteed protection from all liability. Virginia is calling for MANDATORY vaccinations under these circumstances. More governments will take up this call. If they get their way, you won't be allowed to function as a member of society unless you allow yourself to be a guinea pig.

There are mounting calls for Covid-19 passports that people will have to carry in order to function in society.

The Spanish Flu killed between 25 and 39 million people worldwide, but society was never shut down like it has been for Covid-19, which has killed 800,000 people worldwide.

How can this progression not scare the shit out of anyone with a sense of history? Do you think that somehow after millennia of humans in power doing their very worst to those who have no power, that human nature has suddenly, magically become benign?

We are racing to a world of total government domination at breakneck speed. You say all of this is temporary? Were all the restrictions imposed upon us by the Patriot Act and the NDAA only temporary? Remember the old adage: There is nothing so permanent as a temporary government program.

Yeah, it's a bad virus. I don't want to get it and I don't want to give it to anyone else, so I'm being responsible and considerate of others. But I'm going to die someday, from something. We all do. The question should not be how can government keep me absolutely safe? The question should be how do I want to live? Are you willing to live as a slave because you're so afraid of death? I'm not!

I am for damn sure going to fear my government and question authority till the day I die.

I draw the line at mandatory 24/7 government tracking of my movements and associations. I will NOT carry a smart phone. If I starve, I starve.

I draw the line at being removed from my home against my will and held at gunpoint when I've done nothing wrong.

[shiny!]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

When they say all these restrictions are necessary because there is no treatment, that's bullsh!t.

Another study, this one published by the Henry Ford Health System in Detroit, no less:

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S...534-8/fulltext

International Journal of Infections Diseases:

Treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and combination in patients hospitalized with COVID-19

In the multivariable Cox regression model of mortality using the group receiving neither hydroxychloroquine or azithromycin as the reference, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone decreased the mortality hazard ratio by 66% (p < 0.001), and hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin decreased the mortality hazard ratio by 71% (p < 0.001).

...

Further, a total of 190 hydroxychloroquine patients exactly matched up with 190 corresponding non-hydroxychloroquine treated patients based on the exact underlying propensity score. Table 3 contains a descriptive summarization of these patients within both the unmatched and propensity matched settings, confirming that the propensity matched groups have identical underlying patient characteristics. The Cox regression result for the two propensity matched groups (Table 4) indicates that treatment with hydroxychloroquine resulted in a mortality hazard ratio decrease of 51% (p = 0.009). The resulting Kaplan–Meier survival curves within the propensity matched setting displayed significantly better survival in the hydroxychloroquine treated group, with the enhanced survival persisting all the way out to 28 days from admission.

[touchring]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

The treatment will be approved if you vote for Biden. Same like the streets will be safe again. A return to "normal".

Typical ransom politics used in authoritarian regimes. If you don't vote for me, I'll give you hell.

On the bright side, it looks to me there will be a return to "normal" for Americans after the 3rd november, whoever wins. The drama will quieten down and hopefully, the virus doesn't mutate to cause a second wave. Only 72 more days to go.

When they say all these restrictions are necessary because there is no treatment, that's bullsh!t.

Another study, this one published by the Henry Ford Health System in Detroit, no less:

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S...534-8/fulltext

[lakedaemonian]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

New Zealand has now made it MANDATORY for all positive cases to go into quarantine facilities under military guard. Not only the person who tests positive, but members of their household as well. They. Have. No. Choice.

They can call it a "quarantine facility in a hotel" if they like, but if you can't leave then it's nothing but a concentration camp. Are prisoners allowed to bring their pets with them to these concentration camps? If not, what pet owner in their right mind would go to get tested, if it could result in their beloved pets being left abandoned to die?

If this policy spreads over here, millions of people, if they feel sick, will refuse to get tested rather than risk being interred in a concentration camp, whether they have pets to worry about or not. Unless they're among the millions of newly unemployed and homeless. A lot of them might be desperate enough to catch it on purpose just to have a roof over their head for a few weeks.



There is no coming back from this, I'm afraid.

No need to panic about events in NZ Shiny, trust me! ;)

NZ is a little unique and a lot lucky.

With the advantage of distance, island isolation, and time NZ had things a lot easier than most nations.

Our government was too slow to seal the border and stop the import of CV19, leading to a 1 month national lockdown.

Coming out of that pretty well(all except tourism, hospitality, and travel which were slaughtered like everywhere else), the government was too inept to “trust but verify” all individual border movement with the 14 day individual stand down.

They also failed to deconflict inbound folks quarantined for 14 days, meaning Day 12 folks might have had crossover with Day 1 folks.

That combined with quarantined folks escaping to buy booze and be dumb, and Inbound quarantine support staff not being tested as per common sense.

So we had a small recent flare up, due to incompetence and complacency.

Defence is directly involved in a strictly unarmed capacity without the authority to arrest or even detain. Strictly support.

Defence can only operate under the legal guidance of NZ Police as special constables, like unarmed deputies, but mostly just ticking boxes.

It is only necessary for Defence to be involved in order to add credibility and planning capability to a moderately incompetent circus.

Kiwis has a distinct lack of respect for authority(in fact ranked #1 for it in Power/Distance Index), herding Kiwis is like herding cats.

If people just self quarantined like adults for 14 days we wouldn’t have the problem.

The best expression I can think of comes from a Navy SEAL friend of mine. The SEAL community has gotten itself in a lot of high price trouble in recent years due to the behaviour of a few. When I asked him what’s happening in his community he said “One person shits themselves and we all have to wear diapers.”

So Auckland has to wear a diaper because a few inbound International arrivals couldn’t stay inside for 14 days and government couldn’t manage a quarantine taco stand.

We have a Level 1 thru 4 system here.

Level 1 is normality

Level 2 is enhanced awareness/hygiene, and limiting numbers inside to <100.

Level 3 is contactless commerce only

Level 4 is full lockdown, bar essential workers

Auckland is Level 3 for a few more days at least.

The rest of the country is Level 2.

Again, we are a bit different than everyone else due to lucky NZ circumstances. I suspect if we had a broad nationwide breakout we would have to shift to a Swedish model as full lockdown would become politically and economically untenable.

I can assure you that NZ is not a case of creeping incremental authoritarianism, despite all the fake news being amplified on social media to the contrary.

I was shocked to see an old friend from high school posting about a military coup in Australia and New Zealand with absolute conviction while coming out as a militant flag earther.

It’s pretty frightening what people believe sometimes.

As someone still serving with broad and deep personal network connections across defence and law enforcement, authoritarianism is s8moly not a viable option here.

I can go into detail as to the reasons why, but it would be novel length.

I hope that helps.

[Mega]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

ah yes............trust the state, I mean they wouldn't get it wrong:-

[Southernguy]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

The Holocaust began with little things. "Reasonable demands" made by the government to "keep people safe." Gun control to keep people safe from "gun violence" disarmed the Jews so they could not defend themselves. Mandatory registration with the police led to "Your papers, please!" which eventually led to total restriction on travel (we're there now). Then government shut down their businesses, putting them out of work (we're there now). Then it was Yellow Stars of David sewn onto garments, and all the indignities and hardships that led to (Covid-19 passports, anyone?).

The Jews bearing the brunt of this were so civilized, so gentle, so decent (like you, jk!), they simply could not conceive of evil in others. With each new restriction they resigned themselves, told themselves it wasn't so bad, convinced themselves it wouldn't get worse. After all, they were citizens!

The government even told them that the internment camps to which they were being taken were for their own good. It'll be nice! It'll be like a country club! By the time they realized that they had lost ALL their freedom it was too late to escape. Their denial got them killed.

The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater. -Frank Zappa

Since 9/11, in order to fly we've had to show papers and submit to massive indignities at the hands of the TSA. And it doesn't even keep us safe. It's just security theater. Temporary measures? Hardly! But it conditioned us to bend over and take it.

Surveillance cameras are everywhere now, purportedly to keep us safe from crime. Covid-19 authorities want to put cameras inside your home to make sure you stay in your room! Will you take it?

The ONLY way to make a free society accept imprisonment is to make them afraid of freedom. Covid-19 was the perfect vehicle.

Our businesses have been arbitrarily and capriciously shut down. People denied their livelihoods. Do you know that for every 1% that unemployment increases almost 40,000 people die? So this is not about saving lives. This is about controlling lives.

Practically overnight we became accustomed to lockdowns and travelling with papers showing we're "essential workers."

Covid-19 tracking apps on phones, first optional, now mandatory in many places.

Mandatory home lockdowns of millions of HEALTHY people progressed to people being removed from their homes and held in "isolation wards" at gunpoint.

Now their HEALTHY relatives are being forced to go, too. You can say that it's not a concentration camp because people are allowed to leave after 14 days, but in these "facilities" people are only allowed to leave when the people with the guns say they can. The word "Allowed" is a giant red flag for me. Right now they're allowed to leave in 14 days, but the people paying the men with the guns can change their mind at any time, and when that happens there won't be a damn thing that the inmates can do about it.

And don't think it can't happen. A year ago, did you think any of this would be happening?

Covid-19 vaccines are going to be rushed out without longterm safety data, with the manufacturers guaranteed protection from all liability. Virginia is calling for MANDATORY vaccinations under these circumstances. More governments will take up this call. If they get their way, you won't be allowed to function as a member of society unless you allow yourself to be a guinea pig.

There are mounting calls for Covid-19 passports that people will have to carry in order to function in society.

The Spanish Flu killed between 25 and 39 million people worldwide, but society was never shut down like it has been for Covid-19, which has killed 800,000 people worldwide.

How can this progression not scare the shit out of anyone with a sense of history? Do you think that somehow after millennia of humans in power doing their very worst to those who have no power, that human nature has suddenly, magically become benign?

We are racing to a world of total government domination at breakneck speed. You say all of this is temporary? Were all the restrictions imposed upon us by the Patriot Act and the NDAA only temporary? Remember the old adage: There is nothing so permanent as a temporary government program.

Yeah, it's a bad virus. I don't want to get it and I don't want to give it to anyone else, so I'm being responsible and considerate of others. But I'm going to die someday, from something. We all do. The question should not be how can government keep me absolutely safe? The question should be how do I want to live? Are you willing to live as a slave because you're so afraid of death? I'm not!

I am for damn sure going to fear my government and question authority till the day I die.

I draw the line at mandatory 24/7 government tracking of my movements and associations. I will NOT carry a smart phone. If I starve, I starve.

I draw the line at being removed from my home against my will and held at gunpoint when I've done nothing wrong.

And then, the "small flu" gets out of control. Published today in TNYT


https://www.deccanherald.com/interna...ed-876615.html
As politicians clashed, Bolivia’s pandemic death rate soared Facebook MessengerGmailLinkedinPinterestInternational New York TimesInternational New York Times, Bolivia, Aug 22 2020, 22:52 istupdated: Aug 22 2020, 23:05 istRepresenta...

[Southernguy]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

But, yes, I think HCQ, with azythromicin and zinc probably works when taken early on the illness. If I were in the situation I would probably have them. Cheap, very few side effects and possibly useful.

[Mega]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ronavirus.html

[shiny!]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

No need to panic about events in NZ Shiny, trust me! ;)

NZ is a little unique and a lot lucky.

With the advantage of distance, island isolation, and time NZ had things a lot easier than most nations.

Our government was too slow to seal the border and stop the import of CV19, leading to a 1 month national lockdown.

Coming out of that pretty well(all except tourism, hospitality, and travel which were slaughtered like everywhere else), the government was too inept to “trust but verify” all individual border movement with the 14 day individual stand down.

They also failed to deconflict inbound folks quarantined for 14 days, meaning Day 12 folks might have had crossover with Day 1 folks.

That combined with quarantined folks escaping to buy booze and be dumb, and Inbound quarantine support staff not being tested as per common sense.

So we had a small recent flare up, due to incompetence and complacency.

Defence is directly involved in a strictly unarmed capacity without the authority to arrest or even detain. Strictly support.

Defence can only operate under the legal guidance of NZ Police as special constables, like unarmed deputies, but mostly just ticking boxes.

It is only necessary for Defence to be involved in order to add credibility and planning capability to a moderately incompetent circus.

Kiwis has a distinct lack of respect for authority(in fact ranked #1 for it in Power/Distance Index), herding Kiwis is like herding cats.

If people just self quarantined like adults for 14 days we wouldn’t have the problem.

The best expression I can think of comes from a Navy SEAL friend of mine. The SEAL community has gotten itself in a lot of high price trouble in recent years due to the behaviour of a few. When I asked him what’s happening in his community he said “One person shits themselves and we all have to wear diapers.”

So Auckland has to wear a diaper because a few inbound International arrivals couldn’t stay inside for 14 days and government couldn’t manage a quarantine taco stand.

We have a Level 1 thru 4 system here.

Level 1 is normality

Level 2 is enhanced awareness/hygiene, and limiting numbers inside to <100.

Level 3 is contactless commerce only

Level 4 is full lockdown, bar essential workers

Auckland is Level 3 for a few more days at least.

The rest of the country is Level 2.

Again, we are a bit different than everyone else due to lucky NZ circumstances. I suspect if we had a broad nationwide breakout we would have to shift to a Swedish model as full lockdown would become politically and economically untenable.

I can assure you that NZ is not a case of creeping incremental authoritarianism, despite all the fake news being amplified on social media to the contrary.

I was shocked to see an old friend from high school posting about a military coup in Australia and New Zealand with absolute conviction while coming out as a militant flag earther.

It’s pretty frightening what people believe sometimes.

As someone still serving with broad and deep personal network connections across defence and law enforcement, authoritarianism is s8moly not a viable option here.

I can go into detail as to the reasons why, but it would be novel length.

I hope that helps.

While I'm somewhat relieved for NZ, I'm sure that if these measures are adopted in the U.S. they won't be so gentle. Our defense dept will be armed, guaranteed.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that as horrible as it is to have a pandemic virus killing a lot of people, maybe even killing me at some point, if I have to choose between taking my chances with the virus or taking my chances with totalitarianism, I choose virus.

The virus will be over someday. I can take steps to mitigate my risk, e.g. wear a mask, avoid crowds, take prophylactic measures like zinc, selenium and quinine.

OTOH Totalitalitarianism if allowed to take hold never gives up power willingly. Once we've conceded our rights, we seldom get them back without bloody revolution.

[shiny!]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

The treatment will be approved if you vote for Biden. Same like the streets will be safe again. A return to "normal".

Typical ransom politics used in authoritarian regimes. If you don't vote for me, I'll give you hell.

On the bright side, it looks to me there will be a return to "normal" for Americans after the 3rd november, whoever wins. The drama will quieten down and hopefully, the virus doesn't mutate to cause a second wave. Only 72 more days to go.

I've been thinking the same thing. If Biden wins, the FDA/CDC will suddenly announce that after much review of all the data, they're changing their advice about hydrochloroquine. Then all the hydrochloroquine that Trump stockpiled will be released, hospitalizations and deaths will slow, and with confidence that an early treatment is available life will return to a semblance of "normal."

Biden's administration (not Biden himself, of course, because his brains are mashed potatoes) will then spend the next four years crafting a feeble recovery, putting the blame for all the problems on Trump's bad response to the Coronavirus and tax cuts for the wealthy.

They might even approve it if Trump wins, figuring by then that there's no gain to be had by continuing on this way.

The coronavirus might already be mutating to a less virulent form. It does not serve a virus to be too deadly. Killing its host does not serve its purpose.

[shiny!]

HCQ Treatment by Country



Source: https://hcqtrial.com/

[lakedaemonian]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

While I'm somewhat relieved for NZ, I'm sure that if these measures are adopted in the U.S. they won't be so gentle. Our defense dept will be armed, guaranteed.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that as horrible as it is to have a pandemic virus killing a lot of people, maybe even killing me at some point, if I have to choose between taking my chances with the virus or taking my chances with totalitarianism, I choose virus.

The virus will be over someday. I can take steps to mitigate my risk, e.g. wear a mask, avoid crowds, take prophylactic measures like zinc, selenium and quinine.

OTOH Totalitalitarianism if allowed to take hold never gives up power willingly. Once we've conceded our rights, we seldom get them back without bloody revolution.

It might be worth reading up on Posse Comitatus and the limitations on the use of the US Army for domestic purposes.

Even if used illegally, the US military headcount is far too low, and the risk to unlawful orders in the Oath of Enlistment is far too high:

“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed


defending the Constitution comes before obeying lawful orders of POTUS and officers.

[shiny!]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

It might be worth reading up on Posse Comitatus and the limitations on the use of the US Army for domestic purposes.

Even if used illegally, the US military headcount is far too low, and the risk to unlawful orders in the Oath of Enlistment is far too high:

“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed


defending the Constitution comes before obeying lawful orders of POTUS and officers.

All true, of course, but do the service men and women in our military even understand the Bill of Rights? They swear an oath to defend the Constitution, but do they understand what this means? Public school curriculum no longer teaches the Constitution in any great depth. If they receive an unconstitutional order, would they recognize it and would they have the courage to disobey?

Every member of Congress also swears an oath to support and defend the Constitution, but the legislation they've passed has ripped the Bill of Rights to shreds. Both parties are equally to blame.

A few years back, way before Project Veritas, someone re-wrote the Bill of Rights in modern legalese and presented the rights to members of Congress, asking them if they would support the legislation. The overwhelming majority said they would not.

[jk]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

if a 14 day quarantine is an infringement of our god-given rights, i want to know how i can reclaim the god-given right to drive drunk, preferably at 95 mph.

[shiny!]

Re: New Zealand Now Forcing Citizens into Concentration Camps

if a 14 day quarantine is an infringement of our god-given rights, i want to know how i can reclaim the god-given right to drive drunk, preferably at 95 mph.

I'm perfectly willing to observe quarantine in my own home. A number of my friends and co-workers have had to do just that. Some of them were sick and ultimately tested negative. Others tested positive.

My boss and his family observed a two-week quarantine simply because their son had been in contact with someone who felt sick and got tested. I went grocery shopping for them and left the food on their doorstep. Their entire household stayed home for two whole weeks because the results for the person in question took so long to come back. She ultimately tested negative.

We're all co-operating, willing to do our part. Wearing masks in this unbearable heat. But force us out of our homes to observe quarantine under guard, treat us like criminals who can't be trusted, put us through that kind of stress when we've given no trouble to anyone at all... and there's gonna be a problem! I'm surprised you don't see the distinction.