Payback to China

[Mega]

Lets not beat about the bush, our lives have been turned upside down & some have lost their lives!
Is China on the hook for this?.............I think so.

China loosed this bastard on us, they (CCP) did EVERYTHING to silence ANYBODY who tried to flag up what was happening ....some will suffer for it, a rather large number of people suffered death.

I look at just how we got here?
A nasty Communist regime was allowed to get away with just about anything as away of bringing down the CCCP. After that we saw it as away of bringing capitisum to China.

Will Hutton wrote "The writing is on the wall" (In The Writing on the Wall, Will Hutton looks at the uneasy relationship between China and the West in light of the former's phenomenal economic growth - seen by many Western analysts as a threat.Hutton argues that the West should embrace China and seek to promote better governance within the country by adhering to fundamental principles such as the rule of law as an example of progress.)

Hutton went on the BBC in the late 90's telling us we had nothing to worry about (he didn't discuss MASSIVE job losses) & that the CCP would see that they needed to become "Free, respectful of Laws & peoples rights".............GEE that worked out WELL!!!!!!


WE allowed the CCP to arse rape its own people & us as well........ENOUGH!

China is trying to get the Left leaning (& the press they own!) to play the race card.

OK, here's the deal
China owns massive amount of US debt (T notes?) I told its held computers...........& Trump has the off switch!

OK, We give China terms to settle ............refuse & he hits the Delete button.

Just my thoughts........
Mike

[Mega]

Re: Payback to China

[touchring]

Re: Payback to China

Sorry, I don't think China is fully to be blamed for this. It's the West that is too naive to believe in official figures, and politicians are too afraid of imposing measures that will disrupt business and trade.

[jk]

Re: Payback to China

Sorry, I don't think China is fully to be blamed for this. It's the West that is too naive to believe in official figures, and politicians are too afraid of imposing measures that will disrupt business and trade.

it was a mistake to let china into the wto - a decision based on the fantasy that encouraging chinese economic progress would promote political liberalization,

[jk]

Re: Payback to China

mark blyth is awesome! if someone reading this hasn't watched 1 or 2 of his longer presentations, let me strongly recommend it, just look on youtube

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Payback to China

it was a mistake to let china into the wto - a decision based on the fantasy that encouraging chinese economic progress would promote political liberalization,

I would argue that the fantasy was selling soft drinks, cars, and disposable diapers to a billion new customers in China.
The story about how engagement would cause change was just rationalization to make us feel better.
That prize was so big to every CEO that we could overlook the communist dictatorship. Morals are one thing, but money, well money is another thing.

[jk]

Re: Payback to China

I would argue that the fantasy was selling soft drinks, cars, and disposable diapers to a billion new customers in China.
The story about how engagement would cause change was just rationalization to make us feel better.
That prize was so big to every CEO that we could overlook the communist dictatorship. Morals are one thing, but money, well money is another thing.

i stand corrected. you're absolutely right.

[GRG55]

Re: Payback to China

it was a mistake to let china into the wto - a decision based on the fantasy that encouraging chinese economic progress would promote political liberalization,

+1

I would argue that the fantasy was selling soft drinks, cars, and disposable diapers to a billion new customers in China.
The story about how engagement would cause change was just rationalization to make us feel better.
That prize was so big to every CEO that we could overlook the communist dictatorship. Morals are one thing, but money, well money is another thing.

I mildly disagree with the highlighted part. Perhaps expecting "change" was misplaced, but that wasn't the origins.

Serious bilateral relations with Mainland China started with Nixon's visit in 1972. It was founded in the post-WWII belief that diplomatic and trade relations between nations are a mechanism to temper conflict, and drastically reduce the chance of war. It is the same belief that led to the formation of the EU.

Nixon's opening of formal diplomatic relations was the right thing to do; his emphasis was that China did not represent a threat to the USA and the USA did not represent a threat to China.

The financialization of our economies, the capture by the financiers of our governments and policy, the rise of the influence and power of financially backed NGOs all came later...much later.

And China played the game well. It's capture of a disproportionate share of the global supply chain has allowed it to bully and buy any number of developing nations, and just about every UN institution that exists.

Now that China is playing off one oil producer against another it will be interesting to see how the relationship with Russia evolves.

And today we have, once again, the bailout of the holders of capital assets taking precedence over the bailout of the wage earners in America.

[Southernguy]

Re: Payback to China

As some bearded old fellow said long ago it is always the same. When the rate of profit is down it has to be reestablished. Unions and the aftermath or WW2 provoked a rise in industrial and almost all other salaries in Western countries. So there was to be found some way to destroy unions and lower real wages. China was the solution. Relocate industries there and leave unionized workers holding the bag. It worked well. Only one problem a new first class world power was created who challenged usamerican dominance. And here we are, some western powers trying to put the devil into the bottle again. Good luck with that. Anyway, just for comparison between world powers: how many wars has China started since Kissinger's visit. How many has USA? How many countries is China sanctioning?, etc.

I would argue that the fantasy was selling soft drinks, cars, and disposable diapers to a billion new customers in China.
The story about how engagement would cause change was just rationalization to make us feel better.
That prize was so big to every CEO that we could overlook the communist dictatorship. Morals are one thing, but money, well money is another thing.

[GRG55]

Re: Payback to China

...Anyway, just for comparison between world powers: how many wars has China started since Kissinger's visit. How many has USA? How many countries is China sanctioning?, etc.

A ridiculous comparison.

The USA and China are at about the same relative stage to each other today as Great Britain and the USA were early in the last century. The comparison is imperfect, but still instructive.

Just like China in the 20th century, in 1900 the USA historical experience was one of internal conflict and civil war in the prior 19th century. Its politics isolationist (until Wilsonianism gained momentum). Great Britain was the world power, economically because of the Industrial Revolution, financially wielding the global reserve currency, and with its military claiming a "proud" history of instigating one foreign war after another in the name of Empire. Today the USA makes a pretty fair analogue to the UK back then (does the military worship sound familiar?).

If, as seems possible, China displaces the USA as the preeminent global economic, financial and military power during this century, what makes you think it will be any different from its predecessors? Seriously?

Stop excusing the gulags holding hundreds of thousands of political prisoners, the re-education camps for the Muslim Uighurs, the harvesting of organs, the state-sponsored mass theft of IP using the tactics of thugs, the blatant disregard for international contract terms, the institutionalized corruption, and the increasingly open and obvious bullying of other nations. It's because too many of our political leaders don't hold China to account, because of their moneyed commercial interests, that we find ourselves in the terrible situation we are in today. China should be an international pariah for a host of reasons. That is isn't, is our fault. And so are the obvious outcomes and consequences, current and future.

China is anything but a benign player on the world stage. At this point it is not even close to being a "world power" as you state above. But as it achieves that status I fully expect the world to be an even darker place than it is today.

[Mega]

Re: Payback to China

[Woodsman]

Re: Payback to China

A ridiculous comparison...

Absolutely goddamn right. And if the West doesn't get its head out of its posterior and recognize the CCP as its mortal enemy, the writing is on the wall. That begins by flushing out the 5th columnists among our ranks and making the remaining fence sitters and backsliders pay a price for their confusion. Although I'm not at all sure we in the West have enough self-confidence and fortitude to do what is necessary. A cruel fate awaits a world dominated by the CCP.

[Mega]

Re: Payback to China

You can see what is next..."Yo say niice things about China or NO Wi-Fi for you English"

[jk]

Re: Payback to China

kyle bass:

Secretary xi locked down travel from Wuhan to anywhere else IN CHINA on January 23rd..but CONTINUED TO ENCOURAGE TRAVEL TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.xi & deadly CCP knowingly infected the rest of the world with Wuhan Virus


At least 250,009 Chinese landed in the US from that fateful day until POTUS demanded a travel ban. The sinister CCP Virus had already been knowingly unleashed to every continent by then. secretary xi made sure if China was going down, the rest of the world was going with him.

[Mega]

Re: Payback to China

Lovely Spring day here in Blighty ......I spent this morning out with my DSG Bella, walked some distance from the house & found myself in a medow with a fallen tree.

I sat on the tree & began to think about what has happened, then it hit me like a ton of Bricks.

China "bought" the Clinton's in the 1990's & thus the DNC with them.
They done very well at hollowing out America & the west. They forced their way into Africa (de-stabling Old British colony here & there) because they lack water & importing food is a away of importing water. They have Coal (they buying Oz stock right now with US $) but lack major oil resources, hence their surport of EV's.

They don't give a dam about the Climate, everyone else is FORCED to com-pie but NOT them!
They fully expected to beat Trump, they had captured the DNC & most of his party,.......but not quite.

Then shock horror........their man (well Woman) LOST!!!!!!!!

Rather than face the DNC looking at WHY Trump won they had to "lay Smoke".
They told their captured Press outlets to go with "Russian Hacking"......a piss poor cover but they had to try something!


I see China now as a clear & present danger, they tried to finish us off with un controlled mass migration BASTARDS!

Mike