2020 the fall of Tesla ?

[Mega]

Right now Musk is riding high, he beat the Pedo case, he beat SCC (Funding sercured)
the MSM is letting him off everything, all his lies etc........all going his way......apart from his company not making profit.

Up to this point he had the field to himself, no longer:-


He now has to face the "Big boys"
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...4s-2020-review

He has not re-skinned his larger cars, the model 3 sales "blipped" then fell away.....he can't sell his CO2 credits this time a round. Also model 3 sales have eaten into other (more profitable) models.

The Cyber truck looks crap & is likely to not be fully tested, its funny that he based the styling on a 70's Lotus Espirt because Chapman always "allowed" the 1st 5 years of customers to finish the R+D for him. It will be full of faults.

Also bear in mind that we 7-9 years from the start of major production of Tesla saloon cars, meaning the battery packs are now entering their final phase of life........dead battery pack tales fill in the internet.

2020 is THE most important year for Tesla.

[Milton Kuo]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

I don't see Tesla going bankrupt any time soon, not that I think that the stock is a good investment. It seems Tesla's diehard fans have no limit in regards to the amount of money they're willing to pony up to keep the company going. I'm absolutely astonished that Tesla has continued to be able to raise large amounts of capital and this year was no exception. Maybe the WeWork debacle is the beginning of the end to the free money for companies that will never make a profit? Will the Fed's recent "this is not QE" cause further malinvestment?

On the subject of the batteries, I read an article about a month ago that indicated that the Tesla batteries are very long-lived. They may not necessarily have the charge capacity of when they were new but they should still be more than adequate for a commuter car.

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-r...-deterioration

The relevant statement:

The data shows that the average Tesla battery still provides over 90% of the original range up until around 150,000 miles on the odometer. Past 150,000 miles it seems that the range starts to drop off, but cars in the survey still delivered over 82% of their original range even at the highest mileage levels.

[Mega]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

[Southernguy]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

Mercedes Delays Electric Debut After Jaguar and Audi SUVs Flop

Gabrielle Coppola

BloombergDecember 13, 2019

View photos

(Bloomberg) -- Mercedes-Benz is putting off the U.S. debut of its first electric vehicle by a year in the latest sign of just how difficult a time automakers are having replicating Tesla Inc.’s success.
Daimler AG’s luxury brand will start sales of the EQC crossover in 2021 rather than early next year. The German carmaker said in an emailed statement that it’s made the strategic decision to first support growing demand for the model in Europe, where deliveries began earlier this year.
The world’s top-seller of premium autos has touted the EQC and the series of battery-powered models it has planned under the EQ sub-brand as an answer both to Tesla and its traditional rivals. But the initial electric vehicles Jaguar and Audi introduced in the U.S. market this year have underwhelmed on the sales charts, failing to keep up even with Tesla’s years-old Model S and X.
Daimler has at least 10 purely battery-powered cars planned through 2022 to help meet tougher emissions rules around the globe. But while regulatory pressure is picking up, U.S. demand has been tepid for models other than Tesla’s lower-priced Model 3. Consumers continue to harbor concerns about limited driving range, long charging times and high sticker prices.
Jaguar has sold 2,418 I-Pace SUVs in the U.S. this year through November, while Audi has delivered 4,623 e-tron crossovers, according to InsideEVs. By contrast, the website estimates that Tesla has sold about 111,650 Model 3 sedans.
Luxury-car makers’ biggest retailers are divided over the outlook for electric cars in the U.S. In February, the president of Sonic Automotive Inc., the fifth-largest U.S. dealership group in the country, wondered aloud on an earnings call whether Tesla had built a cult following for its cars and said the brand needed to be taken seriously by BMW and others.
But in October, Roger Penske, the chief executive officer of Penske Automotive Group Inc., said the I-Pace hasn’t sold as expected and that consumers have been canceling orders for the e-tron.
“They’re expensive, and everyone has range anxiety, and to me, what’s going to be the residual value at the end?” Penske said during an earnings call. “The growth is going to be slow.”
Automotive News first reported Mercedes’s decision to delay the EQC earlier Friday.
--With assistance from Christoph Rauwald.
To contact the reporter on this story: Gabrielle Coppola in New York at gcoppola@bloomberg.net
To contact the editors responsible for this story: Craig Trudell at ctrudell1@bloomberg.net, Chester Dawson
For more articles like this, please visit us at bloomberg.com
©2019 Bloomberg L.P.

[Mega]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

There was a reson electric cars were dumped for Gas power......its better!
All those BTU's of energy in a quick, easy way to "charge" the car.

Tesla could only be at a time like this, insane lose money every where....mad "Tax Credits".

A sudden depression & tight money would stuff them over night......but I can't see any sign of them coming so what to do?

1. Flood the market with cheap(er) models.
2. Try to link Telsa & Wokeness (SJW's) .......the "Woke" thing has almost run its course, its about to fall out of fashion we need Tesla to be dragged down with it.
3. Lots of story on Youtube about the great harm being cause by producing the chemicals for the battery.
4. Lots of story on youtube about how "Un-green" the electric power is.
5. Lots of story about how much am electric "Supercharger" is to use (am told it works out near Gas pump price)
6. Lots of story about how the government is about to charge you per mile (thus you non-green electric car will cost much the same as a petrol power one)
7. point out Tesla's camera system will be used by Tesla/ insurance company to hang you in a car crash if its your fault (Big Brother sort of thing)

..............then get the shorts to start on Tesla stock

[Mega]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

Ah.............it might not pass rules

https://www.motor1.com/news/387999/t...fiable-europe/

[GRG55]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

Mercedes Delays Electric Debut After Jaguar and Audi SUVs Flop

Gabrielle Coppola

BloombergDecember 13, 2019

View photos

(Bloomberg) -- Mercedes-Benz is putting off the U.S. debut of its first electric vehicle by a year in the latest sign of just how difficult a time automakers are having replicating Tesla Inc.’s success.
Daimler AG’s luxury brand will start sales of the EQC crossover in 2021 rather than early next year. The German carmaker said in an emailed statement that it’s made the strategic decision to first support growing demand for the model in Europe, where deliveries began earlier this year.
The world’s top-seller of premium autos has touted the EQC and the series of battery-powered models it has planned under the EQ sub-brand as an answer both to Tesla and its traditional rivals. But the initial electric vehicles Jaguar and Audi introduced in the U.S. market this year have underwhelmed on the sales charts, failing to keep up even with Tesla’s years-old Model S and X.
Daimler has at least 10 purely battery-powered cars planned through 2022 to help meet tougher emissions rules around the globe. But while regulatory pressure is picking up, U.S. demand has been tepid for models other than Tesla’s lower-priced Model 3. Consumers continue to harbor concerns about limited driving range, long charging times and high sticker prices.
Jaguar has sold 2,418 I-Pace SUVs in the U.S. this year through November, while Audi has delivered 4,623 e-tron crossovers, according to InsideEVs. By contrast, the website estimates that Tesla has sold about 111,650 Model 3 sedans.
Luxury-car makers’ biggest retailers are divided over the outlook for electric cars in the U.S. In February, the president of Sonic Automotive Inc., the fifth-largest U.S. dealership group in the country, wondered aloud on an earnings call whether Tesla had built a cult following for its cars and said the brand needed to be taken seriously by BMW and others.
But in October, Roger Penske, the chief executive officer of Penske Automotive Group Inc., said the I-Pace hasn’t sold as expected and that consumers have been canceling orders for the e-tron.
“They’re expensive, and everyone has range anxiety, and to me, what’s going to be the residual value at the end?” Penske said during an earnings call. “The growth is going to be slow.”
Automotive News first reported Mercedes’s decision to delay the EQC earlier Friday.
--With assistance from Christoph Rauwald.
To contact the reporter on this story: Gabrielle Coppola in New York at gcoppola@bloomberg.net
To contact the editors responsible for this story: Craig Trudell at ctrudell1@bloomberg.net, Chester Dawson
For more articles like this, please visit us at bloomberg.com
©2019 Bloomberg L.P.

Model S sales in the USA have been declining steadily every year since 2016.

2014 16,698
2015 25,202
2016 29,421
2017 27,060
2018 25,745
2019 10,675 (to end 3rd Q)

There is no doubt the less expensive, longer range, more technically advanced Model 3 is cannibalizing sales of the aging Model S, and likely some Model X sales also.
Estimates are more than 125,000 Model 3 sedans have been sold in the first 11 months of 2019; an impressive result for this Tesla skeptic.

[Mega]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/12/te...chinese-banks/

China got his back!

[GRG55]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/12/te...chinese-banks/

China got his back!

LOL. If Tesla is depending on the Chinese for their future survival...well, good luck with that.

I'm actually intrigued by the fact the Model 3 is not only selling really well compared to all other EVs, and Tesla managed to deal with the most egregious of its production issues, despite the revolving door of executives coming and going.

So far the other manufacturers have not been able to develop the following Tesla has. Cult car? Who knows.

[jk]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

cult car - a fashion item rather like apple products but without as broad a potential market, but still more of a market than "ordinary," non-fashion ev's.

cult stock

model 3's cannibalizing model s sales.

model s hasn't been refreshed, let alone redesigned since its release many years ago.

federal subsidies going away.Tesla’s U.S. sales tumbled 39% in the third quarter
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/reuters-america-update-2-tesla-filing-shows-u-s-sales-tumbled-39-percent-in-third-quarter.html

• "U.S. sales, which account for the biggest share of the company’s total revenue, fell to $3.13 billion from $5.13 billion a year earlier." so down $2billion.
• meanwhile chinese sales were up $1billion but the overall chinese car market is swiftly contracting.

[Mega]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/t-...ped-tesla-2019

"T. Rowe's quick jump in 2019 from Tesla to Rivian shows the competition is quickly expanding, and Musk's EV domination is likely to fade in the early 2020s. "


Ford ARE coming

[Mega]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

I am guessing but IF the Eletric car market see Contraction rather than growth Musk will see market share collapse....also fasions can change:-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...criminals.html

[Mega]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

Meantime:-
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/12/ri...estment-round/

[GRG55]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

Happy New Year everyone!

The more I think about it, the less convinced I am that battery powered vehicles will actually be the wave of the future. I am reminded of this quote:

"Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems."

-- Bruce Sterling
[at the American Center for Design "Living Surfaces" Conference, SanFrancisco, October 1994]

I wonder when there will be a backlash against the enormous amount of fossil fueled mining that is required to produce the minerals that go into the batteries. Each pound of usable mineral involves moving many pounds of dirt and large amounts of power and heat to grind, separate, smelt, etc to create the pure material that is used in final assembly of battery cells.

Yes, some sort of "organic" battery technology might be developed, but the enormous investments being made in "Gigafactories" tends to lock companies such as Tesla into incremental improvements of the technology they started with.

We should be watching hydrogen technology. I am increasingly convinced H2 fuel cells will overtake batteries as the preferred clean fuel to power the electric motors in light passenger vehicles. Although a large amount of hydrogen today is sourced from natural gas (catalytic steam reforming of methane/CH4), electrolysis using renewable power sources to extract H2 from water might prove a more practical, economic and environmental method to store the energy from intermittent wind, solar and other renewable power sources.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/30/tech/ford-mustang-mach-e-reservations-full/index.html

Ford says reservations for its First Edition electric Mustang are full

By Jackie Wattles, CNN Business
Updated 8:40 AM ET, Tue December 31, 2019

New York (CNN Business)Ford is no longer taking orders for the First Edition version of its new electric Mustang, the Mach-E.

The company will still be taking pre-orders for other versions of the crossover, including premium and GT, according to a press release. But the special First Edition is sold out.

Ford unveiled the Mustang Mach-E in November and began taking $500 refundable reservations before the Mach-E makes its debut next year.

Prices for the Mustang Mach-E start at about $45,000. The most expensive version of the vehicle is the Mach-E GT Performance Edition, which will start at about $60,000. Those prices are similar to Tesla's Model Y, which will range from $47,000 to $60,000...

...Besides the upcoming SUV, Ford is also developing an all-electric version of the F-150 pickup. In order to have the greatest impact, the company is starting its electric vehicle rollout with models tied to its most famous brands, Mustang and F-150, Ford executives said.

[Mega]

Re: 2020 the fall of Tesla ?

Mean time:-
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/12/cd...-while-parked/