Genesis of SJW

[Mega]

[jk]

Re: Genesis of SJW

interesting. thanks.

[Mega]

Re: Genesis of SJW

Indeed
I thought it was ALL Uni campus, but No its the upper-class.............note some other things:-
"Grievance studies"...............Yes & we fund them!............perhaps we should "de-moneytized" them?

Happy to fund "STEM" but not this bulshit crap!

Mike

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Genesis of SJW

...Happy to fund "STEM" but not this bulshit crap!

Mike

STEM is essentially trade school.
The traditional liberal arts - philosophy, literature, history, geography, - have great value. Perhaps the highest value.
Shutting them down and only teaching trade school subjects is a terrible idea.

In April of 1938 Winston Churchill spoke to the Royal Academy and said this about the fine arts of painting and sculpture:

"The arts are essential to any complete national life. The State owes it to itself to sustain and encourage them. The country possesses in the Royal Academy an institution of wealth and power for the purpose of encouraging the arts of painting and sculpture….

The Prime Minister [Neville Chamberlain], who spoke with so much feeling and thought on this subject, has reminded us of the old saying that it is by art man gets nearest to the angels and farthest from the animals. Indeed it is a pregnant thought. Here you have a man with a brush and palette. With a dozen blobs of pigment he makes a certain pattern on one or two square yards of canvas, and something is created which carries its shining message of inspiration not only to all who are living with him on the world, but across hundreds of years to generations unborn. It lights the path and links the thought of one generation with another, and in the realm of price holds its own in intrinsic value with an ingot of gold. Evidently we are in the presence of a mystery which strikes down to the deepest foundations of human genius and of human glory. Ill fares the race which fails to salute the arts with the reverence and delight which are their due."
.
.
.

[Mega]

Re: Genesis of SJW

I agree a bit, but for me Lib-arts are a cop out for those whom wish to go Uni & get an easy ride..............if I was a employer I look at 2 people, one whom was into Engineering, or law or research & I think he/she is "Smart"........the other who was into "Grievance studies"...............well Gee how long till this assh0le starts to cause major troubles here?

Mike

[bungee]

Re: Genesis of SJW

STEM is essentially trade school.
The traditional liberal arts - philosophy, literature, history, geography, - have great value. Perhaps the highest value.
Shutting them down and only teaching trade school subjects is a terrible idea.

In April of 1938 Winston Churchill spoke to the Royal Academy and said this about the fine arts of painting and sculpture:

"The arts are essential to any complete national life. The State owes it to itself to sustain and encourage them. The country possesses in the Royal Academy an institution of wealth and power for the purpose of encouraging the arts of painting and sculpture….

The Prime Minister [Neville Chamberlain], who spoke with so much feeling and thought on this subject, has reminded us of the old saying that it is by art man gets nearest to the angels and farthest from the animals. Indeed it is a pregnant thought. Here you have a man with a brush and palette. With a dozen blobs of pigment he makes a certain pattern on one or two square yards of canvas, and something is created which carries its shining message of inspiration not only to all who are living with him on the world, but across hundreds of years to generations unborn. It lights the path and links the thought of one generation with another, and in the realm of price holds its own in intrinsic value with an ingot of gold. Evidently we are in the presence of a mystery which strikes down to the deepest foundations of human genius and of human glory. Ill fares the race which fails to salute the arts with the reverence and delight which are their due."
.
.
.

Do you think Winston Churchill wrote his own speaches in 1938 or made them off the cuff or were they carefully crafted to send the right message to the audiance?

Do you think politicians back then were any more honest than today? any less self-motivated power obsessed individuals? Did any of them die paupers and leave no money to their decendants?

STEM is nothing to do with trade school. It's like trying to compare an engineer (STEM) to a plummer (trade) or a scientist (STEM) who develops new glues to a handyman (trade) who stricks wallpaper up.

Let me know when those great philosophy, literature, history, geography people create a flying plane, put a man on the moon, create a computer, create new medicines, cure cancer...

Yes the arts have value, but in the overwall scheme of things, lots of things like STEM have more value, and I would guess that even trades have more value than a lot of the arts especially 'modern' arts

[jk]

Re: Genesis of SJW

Do you think Winston Churchill wrote his own speaches in 1938 or made them off the cuff or were they carefully crafted to send the right message to the audiance?

Do you think politicians back then were any more honest than today? any less self-motivated power obsessed individuals? Did any of them die paupers and leave no money to their decendants?

STEM is nothing to do with trade school. It's like trying to compare an engineer (STEM) to a plummer (trade) or a scientist (STEM) who develops new glues to a handyman (trade) who stricks wallpaper up.

Let me know when those great philosophy, literature, history, geography people create a flying plane, put a man on the moon, create a computer, create new medicines, cure cancer...

Yes the arts have value, but in the overwall scheme of things, lots of things like STEM have more value, and I would guess that even trades have more value than a lot of the arts especially 'modern' arts

how do you want to measure that value, gdp per capita of people in that occupation? do all the physicists and mathematicians working as quants on wall st add much value, or subtract it? and what of all the writers and actors who, aided by technicians, are producing that invaluable narcotic of the masses: television? how do we count that?

i don't have a dog in this fight, because i think it's a kind of silly argument.

otoh, i've always liked this quote:

"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain." John Adams letter to Abigail Adams May 12, 1780

[dcarrigg]

Re: Genesis of SJW

Bullshit jobs are everywhere. In and out of the stem distinction. Somewhere just outside San Jose there's an office full of 20-something software engineers making a quarter-mil per year to pump out annoying javascript popups to try to sell you a phone app to track your laundry or some shit that actually just spies on your location and browsing habits to sell them to other advertisers. If none of them showed up to work tomorrow, the world would be a better place. People with PharmDs hawk fentanyl for a career. Merchants of death. People are just trying to make a living. But just as often the highly paid stuff is greasier than the lowly paid stuff.

Either way, the distinction is certainly silly. Ain't like philosophy is unrelated to science or mathematics. Anyone who ever built a digital circuit knows all those little gates operate on the philosophy of logic. It ain't like digital logic was cooked up by folks who never read An Investigation of the Laws of Thought. It ain't like a great novelist like Goethe didn't develop a theory of color. It ain't like Einstein didn't draw inspiration for relativity from Parmenides.

Besides which, flying plane? Wright bros were high school dropouts with a bike shop, not trained engineers. Man on the moon? JFK majored in international affairs, & it probably wasn't happening without him. Create a computer? That was this guy. New medicines? Smallpox vaccine came from a guy who studied cuckoo birds who wouldn't have figured it out without it. Cure cancer? Ain't nobody done that yet.

I mean, it ain't like brilliant people don't do weird shit and connect seemingly disparate things. The best ideas rarely seem to come from silos.

[Mega]

Re: Genesis of SJW

Study Art/Music is one thing...............but F**KING Grievance studies"...............!!!!!!!!!!!

Am sure the Leftist Marxist tree hugging Green party (thinks AOC is right to Attiller the Hun) will give them a "balanced" view.

Mike

[dcarrigg]

Re: Genesis of SJW

Is "grievance studies" even a major? Or a journal? I'm unaware of it. I get that there's some corner of some subfield of probably sociology that deals with identity issues that those goofballs managed to prank with their whole skoal squared nonsense. But last relative I knew who went through a liberal arts program certainly spent much more time reading Pushkin and Dostoevsky and Tolstoy than doing anything remotely like that.

I just think it's overblown. Like safe spaces. I've never actually seen one and I've been on a lot of university campuses. I'm sure a handful of the things exist somewhere. But probably enough ink has been spilt about them to fill every safe space that ever existed.

[jk]

Re: Genesis of SJW

i thought "safe spaces" was a theoretical construct by which to evaluate all the spaces one passed through. is it supposed to be a literal place?

[Adeptus]

Re: Genesis of SJW

i thought "safe spaces" was a theoretical construct by which to evaluate all the spaces one passed through. is it supposed to be a literal place?

They are physical spaces on campus where only select types can go there. Mostly the LGBT types. It's disturbing to me in the sense that these kids are being shielded from the adversity that they will face anyway once they leave the university. They are not learning the skills required to cope with whatever outside adversity may come, instead they are being insulated in bubble wrap and expect the other 99% of the population to cater to all their (excessive?) sensitivities.

On the extreme side, keeping out the normies is a form of racism itself. The segregation is teaching them US vs THEM, instead of fostering conversations between the various sides to reach some level of understanding and compromises. These type of movements are very much anti two-way discussion. It's all about shutting down the opposite side... and you cannot ever be leftist enough. A lot of it is virtual signaling and scoring imaginary points with peers.

I suspect on the extreme end there's plenty of mental illness and unresolved deep psychological issues.

I've also heard that most campuses, especially Ivy League schools like Yale, the vast majority of the professors are heavily left leaning... and they are obviously influencing the kids they are teaching.


You know shit is over the top when these new extreme leftists are shouting down the previous generation feminists.

[Adeptus]

Re: Genesis of SJW

Is "grievance studies" even a major?

Scroll down to page 5 to start reading the official 2019 list of ridiculous leftist courses taught in US Universities. The list is 46 pages long!

https://www.yaf.org/wp-content/uploa...-2018-2019.pdf

[kriden]

Re: Genesis of SJW

Was watching this last night:
Jonathan Haidt: The Three Terrible Ideas Weakening Gen Z and Damaging Universities and Democracies

[dcarrigg]

Re: Genesis of SJW

I read a lot of books from Yale professors. I liked Sorenson's Advances in Strategic Management and Hacker's Great Risk Shift and Skowronek's Politics Presidents Make. Not gonna deny it seems the majority (though certainly not all) have a left bent. But it's very mainstream center-left stuff. Nothing Marxist about it. No Bernie Sanders friends among them. In my experience, most of the far left stuff doesn't come from the ivies. Too much top 0.01% money running through there to let too much of that take root.

You'll find W. Bush's chair of the council of economic advisors at Harvard (Greg Mankiw). You'll find Bernie's economist Gerald Friedman at UMass Amherst. Or Kelton who really has taken up the MMT mantel at SUNY Stony Brook. Or take the whole crew Michael Hudson put together at UMKC. I think that's a more accurate representation of how things go. The far-left professors tend to be at state universities, not big money private universities. At least that's my read of the landscape. You'll get a center-left Clinton-backer like Krugman at Princeton and publishing in the NY Times. But it's mostly very 'establishment,' which means it's all very 'centrist.' The ivies as institutions are key parts of the 'establishment,' after all.