Stefan

[Mega]

[dcarrigg]

Re: Stefan

De-foo! De-foo!

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fdr-defoo-cult

[Mega]

Re: Stefan

Am no longer saying "Sorry" for anything i didn't do wrong!
Something that happened 2-300 hundred years ago...........not down to me!

Mike

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Stefan

De-foo! De-foo!

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...fdr-defoo-cult

Yikes. I've listened to some of Molyneux's YouTube videos but a cult leader is not how I would describe him. I have some negative opinions of Molyneux but cult leader is definitely not among them. Molyneux is about as cultish as a Libertarian (Molyneux is very clearly a Libertarian), a person who only ever votes Republican and thinks the Republican politician is always doing a great job ("George W. Bush was a good president!"), or a person who only ever votes Democrat and thinks the Democrat politician is always doing a great job ("Barack Obama was a good president!"). This article seems like a real hit piece and, sadly, it's rather typical of most news stories nowadays. Sorely lacking in journalistic integrity. What was the son's family life really like that caused him to pack his bags and move on? The news article makes it seem like the parents, or at least the mother, were saints and the son was brainwashed into leaving home by a Jim Jones-ish cult leader. I very much doubt that was the case and there are hints that home life was far more dysfunctional than the article suggests.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Stefan

Yikes. I've listened to some of Molyneux's YouTube videos but a cult leader is not how I would describe him. I have some negative opinions of Molyneux but cult leader is definitely not among them. Molyneux is about as cultish as a Libertarian (Molyneux is very clearly a Libertarian), a person who only ever votes Republican and thinks the Republican politician is always doing a great job ("George W. Bush was a good president!"), or a person who only ever votes Democrat and thinks the Democrat politician is always doing a great job ("Barack Obama was a good president!"). This article seems like a real hit piece and, sadly, it's rather typical of most news stories nowadays. Sorely lacking in journalistic integrity. What was the son's family life really like that caused him to pack his bags and move on? The news article makes it seem like the parents, or at least the mother, were saints and the son was brainwashed into leaving home by a Jim Jones-ish cult leader. I very much doubt that was the case and there are hints that home life was far more dysfunctional than the article suggests.

There's a whole recovery community for the former brainwashed. The politics talk is just the lead-in recruitment and fundraising tool. Once you become a member of FDR, there are increasing concentric circles of cultishness. And defooing is central to moving up.

Nonprofits who specialize in rehabilitating cult members recognize Molyneux for what he is.

Neither the RNC nor the DNC encourage you to cut off all ties to your family.

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Stefan

There's a whole recovery community for the former brainwashed. The politics talk is just the lead-in recruitment and fundraising tool. Once you become a member of FDR, there are increasing concentric circles of cultishness. And defooing is central to moving up.

Nonprofits who specialize in rehabilitating cult members recognize Molyneux for what he is.

Neither the RNC nor the DNC encourage you to cut off all ties to your family.

Thank you for providing those links. I'll read through them to see what these critics have to say. I am reticent to believe it is a cult due to my observations of things that have been called cults but probably are not. I once worked for a start-up that outsiders said was a cult. Truth be told, it wasn't a cult but the management did use techniques that are found in many religious cults. In the software industry, it is well-known that many start-up founders use techniques found in religious cults to keep the organization together and to extract long, uncompensated hours from the workers. I believe there is even a relatively well-known how-to book that describes the processes and structures of how to use practices found in religious cults to run a start-up.

Falung Gong is considered a religious cult in China, if I understand correctly. However, a family friend has practiced Falong Gong for over two decades now and I do not see him as a member of a cult. He has a doctorate in engineering and has a very normal family life and both his wife and son are not practitioners of Falung Gong. It seems the labelling of cult is something the PRC does because it sees Falung Gong as some sort of existential threat.

Unfortunately, calling something a cult is a quick and easy way to discredit something whether it really is a cult or not although it may possess cultish attributes. Kind of like today where you have people calling each other racists and Nazis. It's not always true.

As for the RNC or DNC, how about Maxine Waters' call to "...create a crowd and...push back on them." I'm pretty sure I'd rather be ostracized than to have a mob "push back" on me for over an ideological disagreement. I don't think Maxine Waters or the Democrats are a cult, by the way.

[Mega]

Re: Stefan

[dcarrigg]

Re: Stefan

Thank you for providing those links. I'll read through them to see what these critics have to say. I am reticent to believe it is a cult due to my observations of things that have been called cults but probably are not. I once worked for a start-up that outsiders said was a cult. Truth be told, it wasn't a cult but the management did use techniques that are found in many religious cults. In the software industry, it is well-known that many start-up founders use techniques found in religious cults to keep the organization together and to extract long, uncompensated hours from the workers. I believe there is even a relatively well-known how-to book that describes the processes and structures of how to use practices found in religious cults to run a start-up.

Falung Gong is considered a religious cult in China, if I understand correctly. However, a family friend has practiced Falong Gong for over two decades now and I do not see him as a member of a cult. He has a doctorate in engineering and has a very normal family life and both his wife and son are not practitioners of Falung Gong. It seems the labelling of cult is something the PRC does because it sees Falung Gong as some sort of existential threat.

Unfortunately, calling something a cult is a quick and easy way to discredit something whether it really is a cult or not although it may possess cultish attributes. Kind of like today where you have people calling each other racists and Nazis. It's not always true.

As for the RNC or DNC, how about Maxine Waters' call to "...create a crowd and...push back on them." I'm pretty sure I'd rather be ostracized than to have a mob "push back" on me for over an ideological disagreement. I don't think Maxine Waters or the Democrats are a cult, by the way.

I guess my point was that there are psycho-spiritual overtones and techniques being employed by Molyneux and his wife to build a quasi-religious organization, and in the process they encourage viewers/adherents/patients to break off all contact with their families and friends and believe only what the group believes.

Whether you think the political components of those beliefs are good, bad, or otherwise, is kind of irrelevant. I really don't think even Maxine Waters or Nancy Pelosi or anyone you could think of that's even worse in your mind has encouraged their followers to stop communicating with their parents, siblings, and friends.

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Stefan

I guess my point was that there are psycho-spiritual overtones and techniques being employed by Molyneux and his wife to build a quasi-religious organization, and in the process they encourage viewers/adherents/patients to break off all contact with their families and friends and believe only what the group believes.

Whether you think the political components of those beliefs are good, bad, or otherwise, is kind of irrelevant. I really don't think even Maxine Waters or Nancy Pelosi or anyone you could think of that's even worse in your mind has encouraged their followers to stop communicating with their parents, siblings, and friends.

I've been reading through the Internet Archive of defoo.org and, if defoo.org really is/was a web site run by Molyneux, all I can say is, wow. I'm still not certain I would call Molyneux's group a cult but, in my opinion, it does seem like an organization of quacks. For certain, Molyneux tried to create a cult of personality which, IMO, is not a "proper" cult.

One of the ideas binding every cult is an us-versus-them mentality. I do not place any greater meaning to whether the them is family or non-family. That's why I made the point that the RNC and DNC can be seen as cultish in their own ways (especially in the context of what Waters said which, to be fair, some Democrats decried). If I give defoo.org the benefit of the doubt, they are merely encouraging cutting off contact with abusive family members. I cannot really find any fault with that. Perhaps that's a result of my secular upbringing. I have not yet read anything about Molyneux engaging in the absolute worst practices of cults: giving all material wealth to the cult leader, working for free for the cult leader, only associating with other cult members.

In any case, your links and comments have been very eye-opening. Molyneux is much nuttier than I had originally believed. Thank you for informing me.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Stefan

If I give defoo.org the benefit of the doubt, they are merely encouraging cutting off contact with abusive family members. I cannot really find any fault with that. Perhaps that's a result of my secular upbringing. I have not yet read anything about Molyneux engaging in the absolute worst practices of cults: giving all material wealth to the cult leader, working for free for the cult leader, only associating with other cult members.

In any case, your links and comments have been very eye-opening. Molyneux is much nuttier than I had originally believed. Thank you for informing me.

Thing is, according to FDR, there is only one child on earth who has not been abused by family members--Stefan's daughter--all other children have been abused, the way they re-defined abuse. For instance, if your mother or brother believe that any sort of government should exist, or even if they are anarchists who don't believe in a natural right to private property, then they are by default abusive and therefore must be cut out of your life. And FDR is there to encourage you and provide you with a new group of friends and family--for a price.

It takes an obscenely long time to suss this point out; the man is incredibly verbose and has a huge volume of hour-long videos of his face talking at a camera. But this too is by design. If there were a clear 2 minute clip of him just explaining what's going on in a straightforward way, nobody would buy it. He needs to circle around and around and around the idea until you've watch enough videos you end up coming up with it yourself. And if you actually act on the idea of defooing, you end up alone and depressed, which is just how all cults want their marks.

The method goes roughly like this:
1. Introduce the concept of aggression and abuse.
2. Re-define the words aggression and abuse extremely broadly, such that actions like trespassing or tax collection or petty theft, or even borrowing a paperclip without asking first constitute aggressive and abusive behavior.
3. Help people make the first logical inferential leap that if tax collection is abuse then tax collectors are doing the equivalent of putting a gun to your head.
4. Remind people that governments cannot exist without tax collection.
5. Help people make the second logical inferential leap that if tax collection is abuse, and tax collection is required for government, then governments are abusive and aggressive by their very nature.
6. Remind people that odds are very good their families and friends probably think that some sort of government should exist.
7. Help people make the third logical inferential leap that if governments are abusive and aggressive by their very nature, everyone who advocates the existence of any sort of government is an advocate of aggression and abuse.
8. Ask people to think back as to whether anyone in their life has abused them.
9. Remind people again that odds are very good that these abusers think government should exist.
10. Imply, but don't state directly, that anyone who thinks government should exist is functionally and abusive aggression monster holding a gun to your head.
11. Ask people to think about what's incomplete in their lives and why they're not happy.
12. Blame the root of all psycho-social dysfunction on abuse.
13. Remind people that (as is obvious by this tedious step), by your (now unquestioned, if crazy) definition of abuse, government (and indeed any supporter of the existence of government) is abusive.
14. Remind people that nearly everybody thinks some form of government at minimum ought to exist.
15. Remind people that they have the right to walk away from friends and family.
16. Remind people that they did not choose their family.
17. Remind people that their family probably thinks government should exist.
18. Compare their parents to abusive husbands; what should a battered wife do? Just leave.
19. Remind people that by not being members of the FDR cult, and by having mainstream politics of any kind, their parents and families are supporting government.
20. Remind people that government supporters are abusing them, holding a gun to their heads, and basically pulling the trigger.
21. Ask rhetorically why anyone would remain in contact with someone who's abusing them and shooting them?
22. Broadly repeat this line of thought in 200 different videos until people equate any sort of statism with physical abuse and cut off ties to their friends and family.
23. Now that people are lonely, start giving them access to paywalled material meant to lure in the suckers who came this far.
24. This is when they can reach deeper inner circles of FDR, for a price.
25. Deny whenever asked that this is what you're doing.

I haven't watched this whole video, but the first 5 minutes or so give you a feel for how he does it.

[Woodsman]

Re: Stefan

...The method goes roughly like this:
1. Introduce ...
.
.
.
25. Deny ...

Twenty-five points? That's quite a rubric. Maybe we can boil it down to two:

1. Person assumed helpful to Trump.
2. Pure eeevvvvillll; take em' down.

If the folks who like the creepy-lookin' baldie are captured by a cult leader, then what do we call these people?

And speaking of cult leaders...

...what stands out about these individuals is that they were or are all pathologically narcissistic. They all have or had an over-abundant belief that they were special, that they and they alone had the answers to problems, and that they had to be revered. They demanded perfect loyalty from followers, they overvalued themselves and devalued those around them, they were intolerant of criticism, and above all they did not like being questioned or challenged. And yet, in spite of these less than charming traits, they had no trouble attracting those who were willing to overlook these features...

Joe Navarro, M.A., is a 25-year veteran of the FBI where he served on the National Security Division's Behavioral Analysis Program.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Stefan

Great trolling woodsman.
Highly inflammatory; off topic; strictly partisan.
Over 100 words, includes picture and videos.
Creates a strong emotional reaction in readers of either stripe.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Stefan

This may come as a big shock to you, but I called Stefan out for defooing BS years before Trump announced for anything here. Mega might remember. Not everything's about you. Not everything's about Trump.

[Woodsman]

Re: Stefan

Great trolling woodsman.
Highly inflammatory; off topic; strictly partisan.
Over 100 words, includes picture and videos.
Creates a strong emotional reaction in readers of either stripe.

Spasibo tovarish! Now please to tell of strong emotional reaction you suffer.

[Woodsman]

Re: Stefan

This may come as a big shock to you, but I called Stefan out for defooing BS years before Trump announced for anything here. Mega might remember. Not everything's about you. Not everything's about Trump.

Is mistake, comrade. Forgive please Russian to judgment.