Why is college so expensive?

[dcarrigg]

Re: Why is college so expensive?

the low occupancy rates of the luxury student housing described in the articles posted here makes me less convinced that that's the future. students from wealthier families have long had their parents buy condos or homes off campus, perhaps collect rent from a couple of roommates, take some depreciation and expenses off their taxes, and then sell after junior graduates. they don't need luxury mass housing; they already have it.

Don't get mer wrong, there will still be plenty of that too, especially in the hot markets. But the luxury dorm/apartments trend is happening simultaneously. Options for daddy who thinks he can beat the real estate inflation with some other investment...

[bpr]

Re: Why is college so expensive?

the low occupancy rates of the luxury student housing described in the articles posted here makes me less convinced that that's the future. students from wealthier families have long had their parents buy condos or homes off campus, perhaps collect rent from a couple of roommates, take some depreciation and expenses off their taxes, and then sell after junior graduates. they don't need luxury mass housing; they already have it.

If you build it they will come:

http://graphics.wsj.com/international-students/

[jk]

Re: Why is college so expensive?

If you build it they will come:

http://graphics.wsj.com/international-students/

yes, you're right. the most natural consumers of luxury student housing are foreign students.

[BK]

Re: Why is college so expensive?

I agree. In his book he discusses the massive spending all colleges are doing to expand facilities and facilities includes things like the lazy river.

Online is happening. I have a friend who got his RN on through on-line learning. This is the guys third degree and he holds a graduate Masters degree from well known Boston School (earned it in classrooms).

Cheap money have allowed schools to slow down or avoid change. Think of the money that could be saved if the massive freshman science classes were replaced with online learning prior to arriving at College. Lets not forget what we think of as the college experience has only existed 50-70 years. Time will tell.

[shiny!]

Re: Why is college so expensive?

yes, i remember plutonomy. i started a thread with that title in '06. how far do you think this process can go before either a. it requires a frank police state to keep the masses in line; or b. there is a countertrend reaction, wealth taxes. much increased estate taxes, etc. the next recession should be a doozy, and might bring about a big political shift.

Option "b" will be on the ballot in Arizona this November:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...ive/592188002/

The citizens initiative Invest in Education Act has been described as a soak-the-rich measure that provokes class warfare.
It has also been hailed as the solution to sustained education funding.
This much is true: The ballot proposal is the only education-funding idea that's presently in play for 2018, provided backers gather sufficient signatures to qualify it for the Nov. 6 election.
Not sure how you'd cast your vote on the proposition? Here are some key factors that may guide you.
What Invest in Education would do and how

First, some basics:
HOW DID WE GET HERE: Amid teacher walkouts in West Virginia and Oklahoma, the #RedforEd movement sprung up in Arizona. It issued a series of demands, including 20 percent raises to teachers and full restoration of school funding that was cut during the recession.
Gov. Doug Ducey agreed to the pay raise and restored funding but on a three-year timeline. His plan, based on rosier-than-projected revenues and the sweeping of funds from other programs, was challenged as unsustainable by Republicans in his own party and by budget analysts. It passed nonetheless.
Fully phased in, the governor's plan would require about $950 million in new funding each year.
WHAT THE MEASURE WOULD DO: Invest in Education would raise the marginal income-tax rates on individuals who make $250,000 or more.
There are two sets of increases. On individual income above $250,000 and couples income above $500,000, the rate would go up to 8 percent (from the current 4.54 percent). On individual income above $500,000 and couples income above $1 million, the rate would go up to 9 percent (also from the current 4.54 percent).
HOW MUCH MONEY WOULD IT RAISE: Backers project that the increased rates would generate roughly $690 million annually.
The plan is viewed as partisan, incomplete

Neither this year's budget nor a proposed income tax increase will raise enough cash to significantly boost teacher pay. Joanna Allhands, opinion columnist

HOW WOULD THE REVENUE BE SPENT: The initiative calls for using 60 percent of the new money for teacher salaries and earmarking the remaining 40 percent for operations, including paying for all-day kindergarten and pay raises for support staff.
WHO IS BEHIND THE INITIATIVE: The progressive Arizona Center for Economic Progress; the Arizona Education Association; the Arizona Interfaith Network; the Children's Action Alliance; and Arizona Educations United, which was behind the #RedforEd movement.
WHO IS AGAINST THE INITIATIVE: The Arizona Chamber of Commerce & Industry, and many Republicans.
WHY IS IT CONTROVERSIAL: The initiative would raise taxes on only the rich, won't raise enough money for the nearly $1 billion needed to pay for the 20 percent teacher-pay increase and additional school funding that Gov. Doug Ducey and Legislature have pledged to fulfill in three years.
It also would change the definition of a "teacher" to include nurses, counselors, social workers, psychologists and librarians, which means money intended for teacher pay raises would be diluted.
Forty percent of the money would go toward school operations, including potentially toward pay raises of support staffers such as cafeteria workers and bus drivers.
Help me put the tax into context

Presently, Arizona's top marginal personal income tax rate is 4.54. It ranks 13th lowest in the country.
Raising the top rate to 9 percent would jump Arizona to the fifth highest in country.
Make the case for/against the plan

Arizona needs additional funding for schools, columnist EJ Montini says, and it should come from the rich. Here's why. EJ Montini, opinion columnist

THE PROS:

• Income tax is progressive; it is based on the ability to pay;
• Avoids raising sales tax, which is regressive (Arizona's sales tax burden of $35.25 per $1,000 income is already the seventh highest in the nation);
• Polling purportedly shows public support for the measure;
• Provides raises not just for teachers but for support staff in public schools;
• Is backed by a coalition of education and children/family advocates.

THE CONS:

• Raises significantly less than the estimated $1 billion needed to pay for 20 percent raise and additional school assistance;
• Redefines "teacher" to include other jobs, such as nurses and counselors, thereby diluting raises meant for teachers;
• Earmarks 40 percent for other non-teaching jobs the likes of cafeteria workers and bus drivers, further diluting money meant for teachers;
• Targets only the richest of the rich, when education is everyone's burden;
• Higher rates may depress entrepreneurship and business growth.

[vt]

Re: Why is college so expensive?

In some states teachers are underpaid. In some they are overpaid. Most likely fairly.

State budgets are dependent on gross income of it's citizens. If you tax too much you drive out business and rapidly get diminishing returns.

A number of states are approching pension meltdowns. A bankrupt state can't provide raises no matter if deserved or not.

We are spending more than any other country and not getting good results. The taxpayer needs to see a return on investment.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-educ...t-study-shows/

[jk]

Re: Why is college so expensive?

We are spending more than any other country and not getting good results. The taxpayer needs to see a return on investment.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-educ...t-study-shows/

sounds like healthcare, another service with heavy gov't involvement.

money leakage into private profit? certainly true in healthcare- i don't know as much about how that works in education other than the bogus for-profit colleges.

cultural problems? for health, a big contributor is the terrible diet encouraged by the u.s. gov't ever since the food pyramid was created, and subsidized by the so-called "agriculture bill", which is really a food supply bill. for education, i won't even bother saying anything about american popular culture and the american attitude toward knowledge and education.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Why is college so expensive?

We are spending more than any other country and not getting good results. The taxpayer needs to see a return on investment.

That is true about healthcare, as jk points out. It's not true about k-12 education. It's just not. The CBS link was silly. Yes, teachers in Slovakia earn $10k less than US teachers on average. But have you seen the rents in Slovakia? $400/mo gets you a decent place. A beer at the bar is still $1. A pack of smokes is $3. A three course meal at the fanciest restaurant is $15. At purchasing power parity, the $28k goes further than the $38k would in most parts of the US.

As for the other country comparisons, don't forget, about 12-15% of all that teacher pay in the US goes right to health insurance premiums. This is a cost that no other country has to worry about. So whatever you think American teachers make, discount it by about 12%, and you'll realize something closer to what they actually earn compared to their foreign counterparts in countries with universal healthcare that's much cheaper and that has much better health outcomes.

We're sacrificing 20% of our economy to the for-profit healthcare extortion racket every year, and growing.