What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

[vt]

http://www.climatedepot.com/2018/01/...limate-crisis/

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

vt I could not follow your link, it seems broken.

Here's a map of the whole world for last Sunday showing how the temperature last Sunday compares to the long term average for that location on that day.
It was indeed colder than normal in the United States.

[vt]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

I corrected the link. It should work now.

[jk]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

as i understand it, the course of the jetstream is constrained by the temperature differential between the equator and the arctic. we know that warming is greater at the poles, thus reducing the differential. of course, there have been cold winters before. analysis has to be statistical, not based on a few days' weather.

[dcarrigg]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

http://www.climatedepot.com/2018/01/...limate-crisis/

I live near the drink and I've seen it rise with my own eyes over the last decades. There was a good story a month back in the Providence Journal about how the bay used to freeze over clear from the mainland to Newport. Even with the frigid cold, there's not even sea ice now. Even 30 years ago, you could walk between towns on some of the frozen inlets. Not any more. Every drop of salt in my Yankee blood knows the ocean is significantly warmer now. This type of nonsense only fools landlubbers. http://www.providencejournal.com/new...ay-froze-solid

[BK]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

With all due respect I disagree. I have a family friend who is a Commercial Fisherman (Boat owner) in the North Atlantic and operates out of New Bedford, MA. He has seen no appreciable differences in the North Atlantic in his 30 years of fishing.

I know we humans like to believe that our Calendars have meaning. 1917 when the bay froze over was 100 years ago. Is 100 years meaningful when the earth is 4.5 Billion years old.

The first politician to suggest Climate change was....... Thomas Jefferson. Mr Jefferson had heard from older folks that it had been possible to use a sleigh all winter long and Jefferson viewpoint appeared in Newspaper in 1907 see https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,1627849&hl=en

How about the big warming in early March of 1888 which allowed people to picnic in Central Park and was quickly followed by the Blizzard of 1888 http://www.celebrateboston.com/disas...rd-of-1888.htm

I would argue that the average life of 80 years for people today is meaningless in the history of our planet. The data we collect on weather over 100-200 years is statistically meaningless when out in the context of a planet 4,500,000,000 years old. 100 years/4,500,000,000 = 0.000000022222222

Please explain to me how gathering data sample over 100-400 years is useful for demonstrating a trend in the earth future weather???

The bottom line is that Climate Change is a very Big Business - see the source for your map "[Data/Image] from Climate Reanalyzer (http://cci-reanalyzer.org), Climate Change Institute, University of Maine, USA."

Weather scientist when from a struggling to raise funds for Universities to becoming Rock Stars.

[patrikkorda]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

I would argue that the average life of 80 years for people today is meaningless in the history of our planet. The data we collect on weather over 100-200 years is statistically meaningless when out in the context of a planet 4,500,000,000 years old. 100 years/4,500,000,000 = 0.000000022222222

Why would you assume that we are only capable of collecting data within our lifetimes?

On this issue, most people are as basic as it gets. The lefties come out of the woodwork when the weather is unusually warm and the righties come out when the weather is unusually cold. The lefties have had the upper hand, because, well, reality.


Is it possible that there is a lag between rising CO2 emissions and rising temperatures?
Hint: YES
https://climate.nasa.gov/system/char...eft_061316.gif

[BK]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

My point is the the earth is continually changing.

What causes the Middle Ages warming period which helped get the world out of the Dark Ages?

Glad to engage in debate. Lots of money being made in the name of reducing CO2 and saving the Planet.

I'll come out against Global warming BS in Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter. Man has been claiming the ability to influence weather since the beginning of time.


Did you see how muck Elon Musk Cousin took from the Solarcity.

[patrikkorda]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

Whether the historically high CO2 levels are due to man (they are) is irrelevant. Man will have to deal with the consequences.
https://climate.nasa.gov/system/char...eft_061316.gif

[BK]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

Exactly. The earth is a dynamic system that will always be undergoing change. Look at the history of the Native North American people and how changing environment forced migrations. The idea that we can keep the climate steady by handing out tax breaks for solar farms or EV manufacturers or increased recycling is ridiculous. 330 Million American citizens vs China + India + Russia + the rest of the world.

Read https://cup.columbia.edu/book/fixing.../9780231144131

In past generations the focus was on making it rain and today its on temperature.

Best Regards.

[patrikkorda]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

In past generations the focus was on making it rain and today its on temperature.

And we solved the rain issue via irrigation systems.

We will also solve the temperate issue. The first step is making people realize that there is a connection between rising CO2 emissions and rising temperatures, i.e., providing a basic thermodynamics education.
https://climate.nasa.gov/system/char...eft_061316.gif

BY THE WAY: The most common logical fallacy is an ignoratio elenchi. Here is an example:
Statement: CO2 emissions lead to, ceteris paribus, higher temperatures
Rebuttal: Tesla will go bankrupt

The rebuttal may very well be true, but it is nevertheless a completely irrelevant statement (ignoratio elenchi).

[vt]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

We should lessen our use of fossil fuels and increase solar wind and other alternatives. We should also increase conservation efforts. Electric cars may lessen Auto ownership and reduce carbon emission.

However attempts to further tax the lower and middle classes and to force unneeded government regulations is the wrong approach.

Here is a scientists that has a reasonable view going forward:

https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060047798

[dcarrigg]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

With all due respect I disagree. I have a family friend who is a Commercial Fisherman (Boat owner) in the North Atlantic and operates out of New Bedford, MA. He has seen no appreciable differences in the North Atlantic in his 30 years of fishing.

I know we humans like to believe that our Calendars have meaning. 1917 when the bay froze over was 100 years ago. Is 100 years meaningful when the earth is 4.5 Billion years old.

The first politician to suggest Climate change was....... Thomas Jefferson. Mr Jefferson had heard from older folks that it had been possible to use a sleigh all winter long and Jefferson viewpoint appeared in Newspaper in 1907 see https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,1627849&hl=en

How about the big warming in early March of 1888 which allowed people to picnic in Central Park and was quickly followed by the Blizzard of 1888 http://www.celebrateboston.com/disas...rd-of-1888.htm

I would argue that the average life of 80 years for people today is meaningless in the history of our planet. The data we collect on weather over 100-200 years is statistically meaningless when out in the context of a planet 4,500,000,000 years old. 100 years/4,500,000,000 = 0.000000022222222

Please explain to me how gathering data sample over 100-400 years is useful for demonstrating a trend in the earth future weather???

The bottom line is that Climate Change is a very Big Business - see the source for your map "[Data/Image] from Climate Reanalyzer (http://cci-reanalyzer.org), Climate Change Institute, University of Maine, USA."

Weather scientist when from a struggling to raise funds for Universities to becoming Rock Stars.

Pretty shocking to me. Every fisherman I know, and I know quite a few, knows that sea level has risen around here. New Bedford is protected by a hurricane barrier that stood 20' up from mean high tide according to Army Corps designs. That's about a foot higher than now. I mean, we can still see the old marks of the '38 long island express around here.

Agreed that Musk is a total fraud. Agreed that it is a short sample time. I'm just saying that the tendency is to higher and warmer water for sure within the lifetimes of those living since we had photographs. We know they brought houses across the bay on sleds all through the mid 19th century. Sure, it wasn't every year by the end of the 19th century. But it was often. by the turn of the century, the bay would only fully freeze maybe once every 10 years or so. The last time it froze was 1934.

There's no geological claim I'm making by saying that. But I am saying that in the lifespan of man, which is the only one that's going to affect me and those I know, the water has only gotten warmer and higher.

[BK]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

Interesting observations. My ultimate problem with Global Warming combat is that it is primarily a hobby of the wealthy western countries. Second, the younger generations are the most vocal about Global warming and yet they use resources less wisely than we did in the 1960s and 1970s Millennials want the second home, new car every 3 years, drive to pick up a coffee at Starbucks, drive their kids to travel sports games two states away, and will then attend the latest Al Gore Global warming movie. Presidents will fly Airforce One across the country to announce a new initiative to combat Global warming, and business people fill plans for meeting that could happen on Google hangouts.

Ultimately, if you are right at human activity is causing Ocean to warm then is the solution to reduce the humans who live on Planet earth? How does the US and Europe get China or India to go along? Most friends I know who believe in Global warming love to get the newest and best i-phone which is not exactly good for Mother Earth!

People talk a big game about loving the Earth and then live lives that squander precious resources, and then try to play catch up with lots of talk.

[dcarrigg]

Re: What???!! "Al Gore: ‘Bitter cold’ is ‘exactly what we should expect from the climate crisis’

Interesting observations. My ultimate problem with Global Warming combat is that it is primarily a hobby of the wealthy western countries. Second, the younger generations are the most vocal about Global warming and yet they use resources less wisely than we did in the 1960s and 1970s Millennials want the second home, new car every 3 years, drive to pick up a coffee at Starbucks, drive their kids to travel sports games two states away, and will then attend the latest Al Gore Global warming movie. Presidents will fly Airforce One across the country to announce a new initiative to combat Global warming, and business people fill plans for meeting that could happen on Google hangouts.

Ultimately, if you are right at human activity is causing Ocean to warm then is the solution to reduce the humans who live on Planet earth? How does the US and Europe get China or India to go along? Most friends I know who believe in Global warming love to get the newest and best i-phone which is not exactly good for Mother Earth!

People talk a big game about loving the Earth and then live lives that squander precious resources, and then try to play catch up with lots of talk.

To me it seems like it's less about loving earth and more about maintaining a human lifestyle in it. Earth will be just fine with or without us or whatever we do. Lots of species might not, but the planet will certainly go on. It's the height of hubris to think we can kill it. We're 20,000 leagues away from a death star. So it's all trade-offs, like you say.

And yes, there's plenty of hypocrisy in the parade of private jets that all fly their one pampered celebrity to Paris to discuss what is to be done about it. Worse still is probably the number of them that took a vacation to a man-made island in Dubai with an air conditioned outdoor beach just after. I have little positive to say about the ruling class' behavior in this era. It is nothing worth emulating, and I'm increasingly convinced it is worth holding in contempt.

And I also agree with you that the greenpeace kid with her iPhone yelling at people for wearing leather boots is largely missing the forest through the trees and has no idea about what goes into the rare earth metal and lithium strip mining to make a piece of junk that they purposefully break with software updates three years in to cajole you into buying a new one.

I've never owned an iPhone, but I am on my 3rd smartphone now. Each time I got a new one the reason was I dropped the sucker out of my hand. Once out walking the dog in the winter using it a flashlight I slipped and it dropped maybe 3 or 4 feet onto ice. Destroyed. Wouldn't even turn on. Next I was just standing on a street corner waiting for someone and for no reason at all I just butterfingers'ed it. 3 or 4 feet onto asphalt this time. Smashed beyond repair. This is even with the fancy after market cases. They build the suckers to be super fragile. It would be trivial to ask an engineering team to make one that survives 1,000 4ft drops from different angles onto asphalt. But they don't care. They want you to break it.

There are also things I don't like about the renewable industry. Chief among them is that subsidies go to rich people who can afford to drop $30k on their roof or $50k on a new electric car, but then ratepayers, including poor people in drafty slumlord apartments, end up having to foot the bill for those subsidies. There should have been a carve-out for the working class, and there never was. Only professional class or better got the goods.

But all-in-all, I see nothing wrong with forcing energy efficiency measures on utilities, especially where the mandate is simply forcing them to subsidize efficiency when it's cheaper than buying new power. And solar is increasingly coming down to earth, price-wise. It could be a pretty good hedge with a home equity loan in the right place/state at this point, depending. In a lot of places, wind competes on its own. Hydro kills competition up here, via Quebec, but that obviously comes with its own environmental issues.

But central to the little coastal town lifestyle around here are the littler things. The businesses and houses that are right on the water in danger of going under are a big problem. Some are over 100 years old and survived the '38 hurricane, but they're getting hammered by Irene and Sandy and whatnot now. The docks and beaches that tourists use and the breakwaters and bigger barriers that protect them and the sea walls that protect the coastal roads and water/gas/sewer infrastructure where it exists are all also breaking down or going away or failing. Flood insurance is impossibly expensive. The result is that people retreat inward. It won't be the end of the world. But it will be the end of that little town and its cultural and maybe fiscal life. Probably few will shed crocodile tears. But that type of thing is the most immediate concern on my mind.