Is Tesla TOAST ?

[DSpencer]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Exactly. He wants all the privileges and upside of markets, but none of the downsides and responsibility. Another John Galt hiding under his bed from the Mammon he fed and nurtured when the beast grows too big for him to control and comes for its pound of flesh. Or, alternatively, jk's signature .jpg says it all too.

Ah yes, John Galt, the fictional character who promoted universal basic income and ran his business off government subsidies. /s

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Ah yes, John Galt, the fictional character who promoted universal basic income and ran his business off government subsidies. /s

They all do. Hell, even the author glommed onto the government teat when it suited her. That's the thing about these "self made men" in fiction. Hypocrisy comes with the fantasy.

[bpr]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

But hey, the Treasury Dept today proposed redefining the term "financial services" to exclude banking.

Wow, I missed this.

Source, page 62:

[The term financial services] ...includes services provided by financial advisors, investment bankers, wealth planners,and retirement advisors and other similar professionals, but does not include takingdeposits or making loans.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Wow, I missed this.

Source, page 62:

It's such a bad joke, isn't it? I mean, this is a 20% tax cut, and if they can get away with redefining this by regulation along with their proposed regulations to recalculate capital gains to adjust the taxable portion for inflation (that is, if you bought for 100, and sold for 110 a year later, but there was 3 percent inflation, now they'd only tax top earners on 7 instead of 10), they're basically making a raw mockery out of the law. This interior department is probably the most baldly corrupt since Harding's, and over at treasury Mnuchin's giving Geitner a run for his money right now.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Bought a house for 180 K in 1980.
Sold it in 2010 for 320 K. Paid capital gains on about 80 K of the difference.
According to online calculators, the original investment was worth 450 K at time of the sale.
Would have been nice to deduct the inflation and paid nothing.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Bought a house for 180 K in 1980.
Sold it in 2010 for 320 K. Paid capital gains on about 80 K of the difference.
According to online calculators, the original investment was worth 450 K at time of the sale.
Would have been nice to deduct the inflation and paid nothing.

This isn't about you in particular TN. Just what your post made me think. I guess the point is most people in the coming generation don't even have 1 home, never mind multiple houses. And you already can write off up to $500k in capital gains on your primary residence. Adding the inflation thing only helps people who have second or third homes. And even then, not nearly as much as people who have incomes in the stratosphere.

I guess the point is, the deficit is already sky high, and they're looking to make a new banker loophole and new adjustments to cap-gains that will add trillions more to it. And you know what's gonna happen as well as I do. After they slash rates for top earners and do the largest corporate tax cut in history and exempt bankers from financial services taxes and slash capital gains by recalculating it, they're going to cry, "The deficit is so huge, we have no more money for social security and medicare, we need to destroy them to make ends meet!"

Even the argument that any of that is good for the economy is obvious hogwash. There's no lack of capital looking for places to invest right now. You could start a lemonade stand (with an app) in Silicon Valley and get a bajillion dollars of funding. Everything from real estate to stocks to bonds to anything you can think of is at a record high, while real wages are still dropping. And of course the reaction is to give more breaks to capital, as if that's the problem here. You know who doesn't have it good enough in America? Bankers and people who live off cap gains. Good thing we're redistributing to them.

[DSpencer]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

They all do. Hell, even the author glommed onto the government teat when it suited her. That's the thing about these "self made men" in fiction. Hypocrisy comes with the fantasy.

Are anti-war protestors hypocrites because they pay taxes that fund the military? Is someone who thinks capital gains should be taxed as ordinary income a hypocrite if they don't purposefully overpay their taxes every year?

Of course not, because this line of reasoning is just plain silly.

[DSpencer]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Bought a house for 180 K in 1980.
Sold it in 2010 for 320 K. Paid capital gains on about 80 K of the difference.
According to online calculators, the original investment was worth 450 K at time of the sale.
Would have been nice to deduct the inflation and paid nothing.

Yeah the concept actually makes sense. In a world where inflation is a stated goal of the Fed, it's crazy to use nominal amounts over long time periods. Of course, if the goal was a revenue-neutral correction for the inflation issue then the rate would have to increase which I assume is not being proposed.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Are anti-war protestors hypocrites because they pay taxes that fund the military?

They are if they work for military or defense contractors. That's a much better analogy to Ayn taking her Medicare to save her estate. Especially since she never really paid into it.

Of course not, because this line of reasoning is just plain silly.

Just as silly as you saying I can't call Elon John Galt.

[bpr]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Are anti-war protestors hypocrites because they pay taxes that fund the military?

Erm, collecting benefits by applying for SS and Medicare is a choice that eligible folks can make. It is not legally binding, as is paying taxes that fund things that an individual citizen may personally be against.

If you are eligible for Medicare and choose not to go on it, good luck finding an insurer that will be your primary, but I don't think you're breaking any laws by refusing it.

Just because you are compelled to do something by law does not mean that fighting against it is hypocritical.

[DSpencer]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

They are if they work for military or defense contractors.

If someone opposed the draft, but was drafted and served in the military, are they a hypocrite if they cashed the checks they were paid for their forced service?

If someone thinks all roads should be private, but nonetheless pays taxes for public roads, are they a hypocrite if they drive on the road?

If someone opposes agricultural subsidies, are they they a hypocrite if they eat food whose price is affected by subsidies or have ever filled their car with fuel containing subsidized ethanol?

[DSpencer]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Erm, collecting benefits by applying for SS and Medicare is a choice that eligible folks can make. It is not legally binding, as is paying taxes that fund things that an individual citizen may personally be against.

If you are eligible for Medicare and choose not to go on it, good luck finding an insurer that will be your primary, but I don't think you're breaking any laws by refusing it.

Just because you are compelled to do something by law does not mean that fighting against it is hypocritical.

Collecting the benefits is a choice, but paying the taxes is not (at least not a legal choice).

Let's say that Donald Trump & Friends decide the new tax rate is 100%. Almost all the tax money will be used to erect a solid gold statue of Trump in DC, but a small portion will be used to fund bread lines. Every citizen will be given bread coupons they can redeem to keep from starving. If I say that this system sucks and it should be ended, am I a hypocrite if I decide to use my bread coupon?

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Collecting the benefits is a choice, but paying the taxes is not (at least not a legal choice).

Tell that to Apple or any other entity with an account in Ireland or the Caymans.

[DSpencer]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Tell that to Apple or any other entity with an account in Ireland or the Caymans.

Maybe if Rand could have hired a team of international tax lawyers she could have lived the full extent of her ideological dream.

The tax code is a travesty and it gets worse all the time. It's one of the best examples of why neither party can be taken seriously when it comes to fixing the roots of problems.

[GRG55]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45306117

Elon Musk will no longer take Tesla private

Couldn't find any Big Money stupid enough to pay a crazy premium for building cars?
Imagine that.