Is Tesla TOAST ?

[GRG55]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Yes, I expect the self-driving, plastic seat, jelly-bean on wheels to do to road bound transportation what the discount airline has done to air transport. A plain vanilla, universally uncomfortable experience we endure because technology and finance has once again intersected to commoditize yet one more aspect of daily life...moving from point-to-point.

[Techdread]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Yes, I expect the self-driving, plastic seat, jelly-bean on wheels to do to road bound transportation what the discount airline has done to air transport. A plain vanilla, universally uncomfortable experience we endure because technology and finance has once again intersected to commoditize yet one more aspect of daily life...moving from point-to-point.

And that's a bad thing? Some people can't afford to get ripped off by what was once monopolists national carriers at least now they have the choice.

[BK]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

I respectfully disagree.

Lets take a trip down memory lane to the good ole days of Trolley's. Trolley business boomed during boom times in USA, but a major problem was getting consistent fow of customers and cash. Many do not realize that all of the old Amusement Parks in the USA were built by Trolley companies who need a way to stimulate Trolley fares on weekends and evenings. Yes running a Trolley company required lots of cash and maintaining fleet of self driving cars will be under the same economic pressure.

Trolley car system line expansion happened in boom times and it was the big busts that put them out of business.

So, I'd really love to see a cash flow statement from a hypothetical self driving car fleet! Obviously, this is too much work its asier to talk about how great flying carpets are and how they will revoltuionize our lives.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

...So, I'd really love to see a cash flow statement ... Obviously, this is too much work its easier to talk about how great flying carpets are and how they will revolutionize our lives.

Ha!

[Techdread]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

I respectfully disagree.
So, I'd really love to see a cash flow statement from a hypothetical self driving car fleet! Obviously, this is too much work its asier to talk about how great flying carpets are and how they will revoltuionize our lives.

Except we don't see many companies sinking their hard-earned cash in flying carpets.

But for self driving cars.....

[BK]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

I love tech and was lucky enough to work with some pretty cutting edge stuff in the 1990s boom. My Dad's Russian friend had created software for translating natural language english queries into search terms. I was calling on CxOs of techn companies trying to established development relationship and it was a tough slog. Telling friends at a cocktail party about this great technology/software that allowed people to interact with computers seemed ridiculous to everyone.

Yes, self driving will happen one day. But, this B-S of fleets on self driving cars in the next few years was started in part by Adam Jonas, of Morgan Stanley, to drive up the value of Tesla stock; Tesla a company that can even manufacture 100K cars per year without burning $1 Billion in Cash.

[Techdread]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Yes, self driving will happen one day. But, this B-S of fleets on self driving cars in the next few years was started in part by Adam Jonas, of Morgan Stanley, to drive up the value of Tesla stock; Tesla a company that can even manufacture 100K cars per year without burning $1 Billion in Cash.

Oh so your now in agreement that self driving cars will happen one day... and let me quote what I said.

Tesla I agree is probably a dud, but it has shown a viable possible future for cars, Musk's other initiatives are going to be world changing.

[BK]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Never say never where humans and progress. I think the evolution will be similar to computer networking. Until every vehicle on the planet is discoverable by another vehicle, just like how a Mac can see a PC thanks to TCP/IP or a Wireless access point or printer. We are a long ways off from that.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Yes, I expect the self-driving, plastic seat, jelly-bean on wheels to do to road bound transportation what the discount airline has done to air transport. A plain vanilla, universally uncomfortable experience we endure because technology and finance has once again intersected to commoditize yet one more aspect of daily life...moving from point-to-point.

If you left it up to the disruptors-in-chief, we'd all be paying monthly subscription fees for our underwear, which would come in essentially one size, color, and style, but with three different brand names to promote the illusion of competition, and we'd all get to share them as below-minimum-wage slaves get told their contractors/business owners to come and pick the dirty pairs up up and drop off somebody else's they just laundered on their way back to launder yours. The sharing economy for underwear. Why not? Never have to wash your drawers again! It's the techno future!

[BK]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Exactly. Every time I take my Nissan with 124000 mles I get the pitch on why I need a new car and less cash or monthly payments.

[GRG55]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

And that's a bad thing? Some people can't afford to get ripped off by what was once monopolists national carriers at least now they have the choice.

Not at all. It is what the American economy excels at. Bringing products and services to a broader swath of citizens than almost any other large nation in history.

Virtually unlimited amounts of food at prices most can afford. Cheap and tasteless, the gastronomic equivalent of an economy airfare seat, but hardly anybody fears famine. Just like hardly anybody fears being left behind getting a flight home for Thanksgiving.

Thanks to the enduring legacy of Henry Ford, and a little help from the financial system, more throw away motor vehicles per capita than anywhere else on earth with the exception of tiny San Marino and even tinier Monaco.

Pressed oatmeal panel board McMansions for the masses - can any other country produce them in the quantities and the price point that America can? I think not.

I keep expecting it will figure out a way to achieve the same thing with health care some day...but so far the US health care system is geared more towards the Model S cohort, not the "I fly economy on United" beneficiaries.

Jury is out as to whether your coveted self-driving car falls into the first group or emulates the last example. What we do know for certain now is Tesla will not be the one that achieves the former, if it can be achieved at all.

[GRG55]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

If you left it up to the disruptors-in-chief, we'd all be paying monthly subscription fees for our underwear, which would come in essentially one size, color, and style, but with three different brand names to promote the illusion of competition, and we'd all get to share them as below-minimum-wage slaves get told their contractors/business owners to come and pick the dirty pairs up up and drop off somebody else's they just laundered on their way back to launder yours. The sharing economy for underwear. Why not? Never have to wash your drawers again! It's the techno future!

I will admit I hadn't quite extended my thought process to knickers.

But I have been wondering if it's long before we reach such a state with home white good appliances. A refrigerator made by the same company that makes every other refrigerator brand one can "choose" (we are damn near there now). Connected to the web (check). Which means connected to the worlds first virtual conglomerate, Amazon (check). Which means automatic refills of frozen breaded chicken fingers without lifting, um, a finger(check). Delivered not to your doorstep, but right to the freezer compartment.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/25/...cam-smart-lock
(double check).

Now, if there was only a rent-a-robot that could microwave them, and deliver them with a beer to the Laz-e-Boy, who would ever need a self-driving car?

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

I will admit I hadn't quite extended my thought process to knickers.

But I have been wondering if it's long before we reach such a state with home white good appliances. A refrigerator made by the same company that makes every other refrigerator brand one can "choose" (we are damn near there now). Connected to the web (check). Which means connected to the worlds first virtual conglomerate, Amazon (check). Which means automatic refills of frozen breaded chicken fingers without lifting, um, a finger(check). Delivered not to your doorstep, but right to the freezer compartment.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/25/...cam-smart-lock
(double check).

Now, if there was only a rent-a-robot that could microwave them, and deliver them with a beer to the Laz-e-Boy, who would ever need a self-driving car?

The pains we would go through to re-invent the milkman...

It's almost like we ought to just bring back all the 50s service jobs and be done with it...

♫♫ Boy the way Glenn Miller played♫♫
♫ ♫ Songs that made the Hit Parade♫ ♫

[Southernguy]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

At the time of this writing one should remember that there are a lot of people (too lazy to find out the numbers) that lack basic sanitation, electricity, drinkable water, enough food, or access to health services in the world. Maybe it's also useful to remember that we live in a finite planet with limited capacity to metabolize pollutants, limited land able for food production, fresh water, etc.
The intrinsic dynamics of capitalism impose, however, unlimited goods and services production growth paired with more unequal distribution.

Self driving vehicles are only an aspect of natural capitalist development. Good?, bad? it depends on every other POV's. The dynamics I find unavoidable, sooner or later.
And yes, I checked, found an investigation in Quito, Ecuador and wages 54% of taxis cost. In Uruguay drivers get "on hand" 30% of gross revenue. Must add social security payments, maybe (didn't have time to check) 5% more. Drivers get, on hand, less than $1000 monthly. Hardly $5 an hour. And gasoline is $1.5 liter, more than $5 a gallon. So drivers probably 50% of total cost.
And yes, TESLA IS TOAST...but WHEN? these days it seems we are near.

[seobook]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Not at all. It is what the American economy excels at. Bringing products and services to a broader swath of citizens than almost any other large nation in history.

Virtually unlimited amounts of food at prices most can afford. Cheap and tasteless, the gastronomic equivalent of an economy airfare seat, but hardly anybody fears famine. Just like hardly anybody fears being left behind getting a flight home for Thanksgiving.

The bigger risk of food too cheap to meter is the internal damage it does.

The cheap & highly subsidized fast carbs drive internal inflammation & promotes many high-cost chronic diseases.

I keep expecting it will figure out a way to achieve the same thing with health care some day...but so far the US health care system is geared more towards the Model S cohort, not the "I fly economy on United" beneficiaries.

This would require a big reset on CPG & big ag industries.

An economy geared toward increasing GDP by any means possible makes more treating symptoms than addressing core problems & by delivering hits of dopamine rather than elevating serotonin levels.