Is Tesla TOAST ?

[Mega]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...ineering-quits
Another one!

[shiny!]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

If you left it up to the disruptors-in-chief, we'd all be paying monthly subscription fees for our underwear, which would come in essentially one size, color, and style, but with three different brand names to promote the illusion of competition, and we'd all get to share them as below-minimum-wage slaves get told their contractors/business owners to come and pick the dirty pairs up up and drop off somebody else's they just laundered on their way back to launder yours. The sharing economy for underwear. Why not? Never have to wash your drawers again! It's the techno future!

Same could be said of our political candidates for a long time now.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

First driverless shuttle in Las Vegas crashes on first day while shuttling passengers

https://boingboing.net/2017/11/09/fi...tle-in-la.html

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

A write up of a Volvo factory in China as a comparison to the closed to media Tesla Factory:

https://dailykanban.com/2017/12/go-p...uction-heaven/

[Mega]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Oh My
Is Tesla about to get Trump-ed?
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ndards-changes

[GRG55]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/25/tesl...han-known.html
Tesla employees say to expect more Model 3 delays, citing inexperienced workers, manual assembly of batteries


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1FE36Z
Tesla denies further Model 3 production issues

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/25/tesl...han-known.html
Tesla employees say to expect more Model 3 delays, citing inexperienced workers, manual assembly of batteries


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1FE36Z
Tesla denies further Model 3 production issues

From having worked in both tech and vehicle manufacturing and distribution respectively, if only a fraction of the QC problem is true, then that’s a future vehicle recall problem. Potentially fatal.

Even IF Tesla scales Model 3 volume, AND manages to produce an operating profit, 1 single vehicle recall could kill the company.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

He's paying 20% under industry average with substandard benefits (not even any match to the 401(k)) for production worker jobs in a silicon valley where housing costs are triple US average. From what I hear that has led to a lot of turnover and slow-going at filling jobs. Heading off a union attempt by laying off hundreds back in October didn't help. His line average is about $4 per hour lower than Toyota's minimum in a high cost of living area. To some extent keeping labor costs down keeps investors happy. But you can always go too far...

[loweyecue]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

He's paying 20% under industry average with substandard benefits (not even any match to the 401(k)) for production worker jobs in a silicon valley where housing costs are triple US average. From what I hear that has led to a lot of turnover and slow-going at filling jobs. Heading off a union attempt by laying off hundreds back in October didn't help. His line average is about $4 per hour lower than Toyota's minimum in a high cost of living area. To some extent keeping labor costs down keeps investors happy. But you can always go too far...

Is there a link for this information? I have been in and out of TESLA multiple times and I have a small position now.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Is there a link for this information? I have been in and out of TESLA multiple times and I have a small position now.

Here's last year's official benefit packet guide. It spells it out. Glassdoor will confirm the no 401(k) match and the $17/hr pay, compared to Toyota USA's average.

Here's a Reuter's article on employee QC complaints. And here's a CNN article on the union scuttlebutt last fall.

I don't know that I'd trade on any of this. Seems to me tsla is more valued on hype and the Musk brand than on any sort of fundamentals. But for what it's worth, seems to me it spells more production problems in the short/medium term.

[loweyecue]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Here's last year's official benefit packet guide. It spells it out. Glassdoor will confirm the no 401(k) match and the $17/hr pay, compared to Toyota USA's average.

Here's a Reuter's article on employee QC complaints. And here's a CNN article on the union scuttlebutt last fall.

I don't know that I'd trade on any of this. Seems to me tsla is more valued on hype and the Musk brand than on any sort of fundamentals. But for what it's worth, seems to me it spells more production problems in the short/medium term.

Thanks for the links - I will check them out. I agree that there's a lot of hype about Tesla. But long term I see them as product innovators and they have two other market sectors namely Batteries and Solar Roofing (production has started) that can help them balance out the craziness around the car manufacturing.

Solar Roofs + Power Cell integrated into IoT devices like Nest can be a great play for millions of households to move towards energy independence.

But they do need to show some stability and sustainability.

[BK]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

You are kidding right?

in the battery department there is massive competition and I'd love for you to tell me how Tesla is better?

Old research here https://www.navigantresearch.com/res...transportation The leaders in the battery space are LG, Panasonic, and Samsung.

Tesla Motors is supported primarily by the massive stock market boom.

Please I'd love to hear how Elon Musk makes his company profitable. Consider every car company makes its biggest profit from the high end luxury cars, and now Elon Musk wants us to believe that Tesla Motors will become profitable by selling lower end cars!???

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

Thanks for the links - I will check them out. I agree that there's a lot of hype about Tesla. But long term I see them as product innovators and they have two other market sectors namely Batteries and Solar Roofing (production has started) that can help them balance out the craziness around the car manufacturing.

Solar Roofs + Power Cell integrated into IoT devices like Nest can be a great play for millions of households to move towards energy independence.

But they do need to show some stability and sustainability.

FWIW, I'm curious about the solar roofing. It's going to be significantly more expensive than just buying standard panels, but the residential solar market deals with higher-income individuals anyways many of whom may well be willing to pay the premium for the aesthetic value. Still, there are real questions that regular vanilla solar panel installers have still been ironing out from town to town, county to county, and state to state involving building and fire code. And there's the snow problem. Conventional panels are black, smooth, at a steep angle, and have low friction. So they heat up quickly and snow slides off. Apparently they're contemplating providing the option for copper heating elements to be installed in each shingle, but that's more money up front and more wasted energy over time. More than that, there aren't many outfits with roofing/electrician combos ready to go. These aren't insurmountable barriers, but I think they'll make ramp-up take years longer than people predict, and will probably first find a market in new homes rather than on older ones. The problem there? The states where the housing stock is the newest also tend to lack market incentives. If anything, it seems like California--with good incentives, a relative abundance of new construction, and relatively little snow--will probably be the best market. I think they're going to have a harder time in the northeast and midwest where incentives are good to okay but housing is old and snow is common, or in the south where incentives are poor and people are more price-conscious even though there's a lot of new construction. It's probably going to limit European sales too.

BUT...like I said...I really think it's more hype-based than fundamentals based. I could be totally wrong and they could sell way better than I think just off the Musk brand alone, even if their price is high and wait times are long and performance in winter months is poor, etc.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

... So they heat up quickly and snow slides off. ....

In cold climates that's a problem for conventional metal roofs. The answer is clips or strips that keep a chunk of ice from sliding off a high roof and cutting off someone's arm.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Is Tesla TOAST ?

That's true. The same clips/guards are installed on rooftop solar arrays around here.