The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

[lakedaemonian]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

I've been reading a bit lately on cognitive biases, and am increasingly convinced that's what happens in a large majority of conversations. Identity beats reason almost every time. But if we begin by assuming that rational discourse is incapable of ever changing minds, aren't we giving up a bit too easily?

Cognitive Bias is something I've spent a lot of time on this past year, focused almost exclusively on:

Confirmation Bias

Conformity Bias

Sunk Cost Fallacy

(devil's advocacy/pre-mortem)

There's heaps of others, but I've been approaching it from the perspective of teaching just the basics.

Kind of like teaching self-aid/combat life saver course.....NOT teaching brain surgery.

Human behaviour is a funny thing.

[Chris Coles]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

"Among the thousands of iTulip community members, sixty stand out as our most active, enduring, and perceptive contributers and I salute you here: *T*, Andreuccio, ASH, babbittd, bart, bill, BiscayneSunrise, blazespinnaker, clue, Charles Mackay, Chomsky, Chris, Chris Coles, ..........." Taken from Acknowledgments, The Postcatastrophe Economy by Eric Janszen.

Certainly, in such a widespread international group of individuals, there will be many that will disagree with what any single individual will have to say on any matter herein. At the outset, that was indeed the basis for the original success of iTulip as a community, created under the leadership of EJ who, in turn, showed us all that he is dedicated to wide ranging discussion on matters related to the US economy. In that sense, I have great respect for jk. While he has at times been greatly challenged by my viewpoint, he remained respectful of my right to express it.

Anyone looking back at this thread will see that my words are a tiny part of the whole. It would seem that there are indeed those, that will go to any lengths; reams of text littered with denigration of the most personal form, all clearly designed to prevent another point of view; one that they disagree with. That is not free speech. Period!

One last point, I will remain proud that EJ made the decision to make me a member of the iTulip Shadow Fed. If my pride, in what others have decided were my sensible inputs to the ongoing debate, bring a sense of anger to some, what can one say in return? Personally, I will see such as a reflection of their mindset, rather than mine.

[Woodsman]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

...I'll let it go and if even a handful of people think I'm the one out of line they can say so here and I'll banish myself from the site (with the exception of investor forums).

How about an apology? Something like, "while I reject your theories and methodology, I argued against the man instead of the idea and that was my failure. I was disrespectful and needlessly combative and insulting and apologize for my behavior towards you and the community."

[DSpencer]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

How about an apology? Something like, "while I reject your theories and methodology, I argued against the man instead of the idea and that was my failure. I was disrespectful and needlessly combative and insulting and apologize for my behavior towards you and the community."

If you thought my post was a roundabout way of expressing regret, you have misunderstood me. I'm not sorry and have no intention of apologizing.

Read the thread. Who made personal comments first? Who made claims they can't support? Who stands to gain financially by misleading the members of the forum?

My only point was that if the community feels that itulip should be a safe space for pseudoscience and the charlatans who seek to profit from it, then I have no place here. Let me know and I'll be on my way so that you can all read your entrails in peace.

[Chris Coles]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

How about an apology? Something like, "while I reject your theories and methodology, I argued against the man instead of the idea and that was my failure. I was disrespectful and needlessly combative and insulting and apologize for my behavior towards you and the community."

Thank you Woody, but let it go; they have no intention of accepting their participation was unacceptably negative. As it is they have, IMHO, created a wonderful example of how some will do anything to depreciate another point of view; to the point of repeatedly stating that to do so is a fraud. I can take it; perhaps that is what they find so annoying.

Life is too short and we must rise above such outbursts.

Have a great weekend, Formula 1 season starts Sunday; Bottas to get his first win. Much more fun!

[jk]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

My only point was that if the community feels that itulip should be a safe space for pseudoscience and the charlatans who seek to profit from it, then I have no place here. Let me know and I'll be on my way so that you can all read your entrails in peace.

the implication of "safe space" is that there is no challenge. i would say challenge if you wish, but recognize that it may well be a waste of your time and energy. imo there are more important contributions you can make here.

What IS the proper way to handle someone who is harming a society and themselves because of their delusions? How does one encourage/force a deluded patient to confront reality, if not by speaking with them, or at least in their presence? I suppose I've by default settled on a model vaguely like an intervention, but does that actually work in practice?...

I'll readily defer to your expertise if my approach can't help. But I still don't know what a better approach is. Voting to demonstrate that no one has yet been convinced by their words? Cutting them off? Turning off their account? I've tried ignoring Chris for extended periods in the past, but all that seems to do is bring him back again later with an even more grandiose delusion. It certainly hasn't caused him to get the psychiatric help he needs. And in the meantime, he's wasted 14 years of his life. It's hard for me not to think of that as self-harm.

irl there are laws which may be invoked to contain or restrain someone who is a genuine threat to himself or others, but the standard for judging "threat" is pretty high. here, i question the seriousness of the threat.

and btw one cannot successfully force someone to "confront reality." as i indicated before, they will find a way to discount the new information or to even incorporate it into their pre-existing belief system. how are your efforts to get chris to "confront reality" working so far?

[Woodsman]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

Oh please, Spence. How ever could we possibly go on without you?

[DSpencer]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

Oh please, Spence. How ever could we possibly go on without you?

Your first post in this thread was to say astonas came off as an "evil little shit". Your next post asked for me to apologize for being disrespectful, insulting and arguing against the man and not the ideas. Your last post is a snide remark implying that my contribution is not valuable.

What response are you hoping to elicit?

[Southernguy]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

What about everybody taking a valium pill before posting?

[Woodsman]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

Your first post in this thread was to say astonas came off as an "evil little shit". Your next post asked for me to apologize for being disrespectful, insulting and arguing against the man and not the ideas. Your last post is a snide remark implying that my contribution is not valuable.

What response are you hoping to elicit?

That you fellas seem hardly different than those whom you rail against. That you appear in this thread to possess every bit of intellectual and moral arrogance you see in the "other" you've tried to make of Chris. And that having been personally in that same space myself as was Raz (to my comeuppance, ultimately) and others; knowing the impact of the loss, I still wouldn't miss either of you much. Because humility is more valuable than intelligence and intelligence without humility is inchoate evil everywhere and always.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

How about an apology? Something like, "while I reject your theories and methodology, I argued against the man instead of the idea and that was my failure. I was disrespectful and needlessly combative and insulting and apologize for my behavior towards you and the community."

Have you ever attacked the person rather than argument here Woodsman?

Rather rich coming from you.

[bungee]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

The most realistic answer is to ask you to read the book.

Capitalism inevitably creates a 'sad' unfair world, physicist says he has proved

Capitalism is inherently unfair and will produce a world full of ‘sad’ and disgusting inequalities, but Communism is also “doomed to fail”, a leading scientist claims to have proved using the laws of physics.

Professor Adrian Bejan told The Independent he was so excited by the “huge” implications of his theory that he kept having to pinch himself.

.....

And, displaying the contempt many scientists have for claims made by the current US President, Professor Frank Close, an Oxford University physicist, said: “'Huge’ seems to be a favourite Trumpism so perhaps not the best claim to be making these days.

“I suggest the authors be invited to make a prediction whose failure would be able to refute their theory. Otherwise it’s not good physics.”


So what is the prediction whose failure would refute your theory that the Universe is a cloud of surplus proton energy?

Buying and reading your book is not a prediction. While I respect your right to publish whatever you like I'm kind of getting the feeling that it's a bit like scientology in that you need to pay to see the light. The fact that you haven't offered up any experimental evidence for your theory or any experimental evidence against current physics makes me suspect your theory is is just a hypothesis.

[Chris Coles]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

Capitalism inevitably creates a 'sad' unfair world, physicist says he has proved

Capitalism is inherently unfair and will produce a world full of ‘sad’ and disgusting inequalities, but Communism is also “doomed to fail”, a leading scientist claims to have proved using the laws of physics.

Professor Adrian Bejan told The Independent he was so excited by the “huge” implications of his theory that he kept having to pinch himself.

.....

And, displaying the contempt many scientists have for claims made by the current US President, Professor Frank Close, an Oxford University physicist, said: “'Huge’ seems to be a favourite Trumpism so perhaps not the best claim to be making these days.

“I suggest the authors be invited to make a prediction whose failure would be able to refute their theory. Otherwise it’s not good physics.”


So what is the prediction whose failure would refute your theory that the Universe is a cloud of surplus proton energy?

Buying and reading your book is not a prediction. While I respect your right to publish whatever you like I'm kind of getting the feeling that it's a bit like scientology in that you need to pay to see the light. The fact that you haven't offered up any experimental evidence for your theory or any experimental evidence against current physics makes me suspect your theory is is just a hypothesis.

The experimental evidence is in the book.

[Chris Coles]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

Capitalism inevitably creates a 'sad' unfair world, physicist says he has proved

Capitalism is inherently unfair and will produce a world full of ‘sad’ and disgusting inequalities, but Communism is also “doomed to fail”, a leading scientist claims to have proved using the laws of physics.

Professor Adrian Bejan told The Independent he was so excited by the “huge” implications of his theory that he kept having to pinch himself.

.....

And, displaying the contempt many scientists have for claims made by the current US President, Professor Frank Close, an Oxford University physicist, said: “'Huge’ seems to be a favourite Trumpism so perhaps not the best claim to be making these days.

“I suggest the authors be invited to make a prediction whose failure would be able to refute their theory. Otherwise it’s not good physics.”


So what is the prediction whose failure would refute your theory that the Universe is a cloud of surplus proton energy?

Buying and reading your book is not a prediction. While I respect your right to publish whatever you like I'm kind of getting the feeling that it's a bit like scientology in that you need to pay to see the light. The fact that you haven't offered up any experimental evidence for your theory or any experimental evidence against current physics makes me suspect your theory is is just a hypothesis.

The experimental evidence is in the book.

[davidstvz]

Re: The Universe is a Cloud of Surplus proton Energy

I agree that Chris Coles comes off as a crank... that being said, I find myself sympathetic to many cranks these days. I think that it's clear there's a lot of officially sanctioned bullshit in the world today and I'm ultimately not educated enough in all the relevant fields to evaluate on my own what is bullshit and what isn't. So I'm left with the need to decide whether or not to trust people who are more intelligent or educated in a particular field than I am. My decision to trust is not at all scientific. I'm here because I trusted EJ after reading his gold chapter in "America's Bubble Economy: Profit When it Pops"... a book that, to be perfectly honest, reads like it was written by cranks and snake-oil salesmen (excepting EJ's chapter of course).