Wot is wrong with her????

[lektrode]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

gee spence, it never would've occurred to me that YOU'D be an apologist for her...

and NOTHING that the "right wing nutjobs" have done can hold a candle to what those in the left wing nutjob brigade and 'the establishment' have done - NOTHING!

and to think that 'once upon a time in America' it was the left wing nutjobs that used to be the 'anti-establishment'

now its THEM that are defending it?
(since its the 60's hippies that are now running the show, esp in academia, which = the root-source of all left-wing nutjob 'philosophy' )

Exactly which health conspiracy was proven correct? That she has Parkinson's? That she has epilepsy? That she has AIDS? That she has traumatic brain injury? That even her opening a jar of pickles as a joke was staged because the lid didn't properly "pop" when turned? There's a difference between asking for answers to legitimate questions and concocting/distributing half-baked theories.

Yes, Hillary is dishonest. She lied again, at least by omission, about her health. She may indeed have a serious health condition she is covering up. How much of her private health information we have a right to know is debatable, but we don't deserve purposeful deception.

What you don't seem to get is that you are part of the problem. It's like the little boy who cried wolf. When the right wing nutjobs throw out every health condition imaginable with only the tiniest sliver of evidence, they make it easy for Hillary to get the mainstream public to write off the whole issue as manufactured propaganda. When you pass on these stories and act like they may be credible, even if somewhat far-fetched, you are furthering the distribution of this nonsense. You are muddying the waters so that it's harder for anyone to determine fact from fiction or credible concerns from insanity. You are helping Hillary Clinton, whether you know it or not.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." If you're going to say that Hillary is fooling everyone around her with a body double including a team of Secret Service agents, or that they are all in on it, you better have something more than saying she looks better after resting than she did before collapsing, plus her purse is on the other shoulder.

[vt]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

Spence why do you deny she has a problem? I didn't say any of the wild theories, just asked a few questions from photos and other evidence.

Hillary has a history as SOS of some falls hitting her head, or fracturing an arm. You know the stories. But we have seen the coughing fits which are not normal and certainly preceded any pneumonia by many weeks.
The campaign is clearly covering up her health and now the truth is coming out. She needs to come clean because the country cannot afford a commander in chief with serious and possible chronic health issues.

As for the stress of a campaign Trump and Sanders seem to have handled it well. aren't men supposed to decline at this age and women last longer?

Denial is a river in Egypt. Lying to the public constantly is not accepted anywhere.

[LazyBoy]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

never mind

[DSpencer]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

gee spence, it never would've occurred to me that YOU'D be an apologist for her...

and NOTHING that the "right wing nutjobs" have done can hold a candle to what those in the left wing nutjob brigade and 'the establishment' have done - NOTHING!

and to think that 'once upon a time in America' it was the left wing nutjobs that used to be the 'anti-establishment'

now its THEM that are defending it?
(since its the 60's hippies that are now running the show, esp in academia, which = the root-source of all left-wing nutjob 'philosophy' )

I'm not a Hillary apologist. I think she is corrupt. I think she is dishonest. I think she is a criminal. None of that means that I have to believe she has AIDS or Parkinson's or a body double.

I see that you've worked yourself up into another partisan frenzy. You keep thinking: if only we could get the "good guys" in office, then everything would be wonderful. You're like an overzealous sports fan convinced that your rival is pure evil while your team is favored by God himself to win.

What makes you think Trump is anti-establishment? He is the self-described "Law and Order Candidate". He and Hillary are part of the same system. He gives money to her foundation. He donates to her campaigns. She attended his freaking wedding.

You think you are playing hard for the right team. Unfortunately, you are confused about who the teams really are and what is the point of the game. Who do you think is more likely to be at Trump's next wedding: Lektrode the Loyal Trump Voter or Crooked Hillary?

[jk]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

Spence why do you deny she has a problem? I didn't say any of the wild theories, just asked a few questions from photos and other evidence.

Hillary has a history as SOS of some falls hitting her head, or fracturing an arm. You know the stories. But we have seen the coughing fits which are not normal and certainly preceded any pneumonia by many weeks.
The campaign is clearly covering up her health and now the truth is coming out. She needs to come clean because the country cannot afford a commander in chief with serious and possible chronic health issues.

As for the stress of a campaign Trump and Sanders seem to have handled it well. aren't men supposed to decline at this age and women last longer?

Denial is a river in Egypt. Lying to the public constantly is not accepted anywhere.

let's start with the simplest explanations. she has seasonal allergies. [btw, fall allergies are not to pollen; pollen happens in the spring. i mention this only because i saw some bs about low pollen levels.] so for whatever reason she isn't clearing mucus from her lungs fully. the blocked airways become prime habitat for pneumonia organisms. this would fully explain the most recent health issues. doesn't address older issues; doesn't address her defensiveness and secrecy; does address her coughing and her becoming dehydrated and hypotensive.

[DSpencer]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

Spence why do you deny she has a problem? I didn't say any of the wild theories, just asked a few questions from photos and other evidence.

Hillary has a history as SOS of some falls hitting her head, or fracturing an arm. You know the stories. But we have seen the coughing fits which are not normal and certainly preceded any pneumonia by many weeks.
The campaign is clearly covering up her health and now the truth is coming out. She needs to come clean because the country cannot afford a commander in chief with serious and possible chronic health issues.

As for the stress of a campaign Trump and Sanders seem to have handled it well. aren't men supposed to decline at this age and women last longer?

Denial is a river in Egypt. Lying to the public constantly is not accepted anywhere.

Please point out where I denied she has a problem. Was it when i said this:

She may indeed have a serious health condition she is covering up.

What do you mean you didn't say any of the wild theories? That's the whole reason we are having this discussion:

The man who touches Hillary may be a member of Hillary’s close staff – but he is NOT a Secret Service agent.
Mike Cernovich pointed out earlier that Hillary’s handler carries what looks like a Diazepam pen

Body Double

I thought these conservative publications' health scares were campaign tricks, but no more; they were correct.

But now this?

http://www.morningnewsusa.com/hillar...-23104197.html

The first one is probably actually an unattributed quote, but whether it was your words or not you were the one posting it. By the way, what happened to her alleged secret doctor? Was that one of the health scares you are now saying was correct?

Look it really boils down to the following. Can you tell the difference between these positions:

1. Hillary Clinton is getting up there in age. She has had some medical issues in the past that we know about. She is clearly having some kind of medical situation with coughing, overheating and fainting. Her campaign says it's pneumonia. I don't trust it because she's not trustworthy to start and they were specifically being misleading about her health by concealing the pneumonia initially. I think it's important that we find out the truth before the election because it might impact the voter's decision on who is fit to be President.

2. Hillary and Bill look old and frail. Bill likes to sleep around. They must both have AIDS. Hillary reappears after fainting and says she feels fine. BUT, she is wearing her purse on the other shoulder therefore it's probably a body double. A guy dressed like a Secret Service agent touched Hillary on stage. An anonymous "expert on Secret Service tactics" told a website that a Secret Service agent wouldn't do that. Therefore, he is NOT Secret Service and must instead be some kind of secret doctor.

Let's not forget. The real reason you want this to be an issue is because you want it to lead to Hillary not winning. Saying that "the country cannot afford a commander in chief with serious and possible chronic health issues." is nonsense. Eight Presidents have died in office. 8/44=18%. 18% of Presidents have died in office and yet, we are still a country.

Have you read the letter from Trump's doctor? It's a complete joke. Donald Trump would be the oldest President ever elected and yet his letter states:

If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency.

I only wish this were a physical fitness contest as Gary Johnson is unquestionably the most athletic of the three.

[Woodsman]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

Please point out where I denied she has a problem. Was it when i said this:



What do you mean you didn't say any of the wild theories? That's the whole reason we are having this discussion:






The first one is probably actually an unattributed quote, but whether it was your words or not you were the one posting it. By the way, what happened to her alleged secret doctor? Was that one of the health scares you are now saying was correct?

Look it really boils down to the following. Can you tell the difference between these positions:

1. Hillary Clinton is getting up there in age. She has had some medical issues in the past that we know about. She is clearly having some kind of medical situation with coughing, overheating and fainting. Her campaign says it's pneumonia. I don't trust it because she's not trustworthy to start and they were specifically being misleading about her health by concealing the pneumonia initially. I think it's important that we find out the truth before the election because it might impact the voter's decision on who is fit to be President.

2. Hillary and Bill look old and frail. Bill likes to sleep around. They must both have AIDS. Hillary reappears after fainting and says she feels fine. BUT, she is wearing her purse on the other shoulder therefore it's probably a body double. A guy dressed like a Secret Service agent touched Hillary on stage. An anonymous "expert on Secret Service tactics" told a website that a Secret Service agent wouldn't do that. Therefore, he is NOT Secret Service and must instead be some kind of secret doctor.

Let's not forget. The real reason you want this to be an issue is because you want it to lead to Hillary not winning. Saying that "the country cannot afford a commander in chief with serious and possible chronic health issues." is nonsense. Eight Presidents have died in office. 8/44=18%. 18% of Presidents have died in office and yet, we are still a country.

Have you read the letter from Trump's doctor? It's a complete joke. Donald Trump would be the oldest President ever elected and yet his letter states:


I only wish this were a physical fitness contest as Gary Johnson is unquestionably the most athletic of the three.

I'm curious, DS. If you believe her to be corrupt, mendacious and criminal, what are you going on about here? VT posted a whopper, we asked that he use more discretion, explained why we thought it was important and he agreed. End of story.

Okay, so you don't think a candidate's health is something voters should consider when making a choice. Great to know. I'm sure you understand that it's a minority view, certainly, but more power to you.

And so what if the "real reason" someone might want to make more of her health issues is their desire to see HRC lose. Is that any less legitimate than someone who wants to see her win discounting her health as a factor? What, Elliot Ness should have let Capone walk on the tax evasion charge because it wasn't the "right" crime? The Patriots should give their Super Bowl XLIX rings to the Seahawks because Pete Carroll told Russell Wilson to pass instead of letting Marshawn Lynch run it into the end zone and the pass was intercepted?

There's data for this sort of thing and as Gomer Pyle says, "surprise, surprise, surprise." It splits down partisan lines.

All voters strongly agree that a candidate’s health is an important voting issue, but while most Republicans and unaffiliated voters think the state of Hillary Clinton’s health is worth exploring, the majority of Democrats disagree.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 86% of Likely U.S. Voters say a candidate’s health is important to their vote, with 43% who say it is Very Important. Just 12% rate the health of a candidate as unimportant, and that includes only one percent (1%) who feel it is Not At All Important. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

Eighty-five percent (85%) of Democrats agree with 89% of GOP voters and 85% of voters not affiliated with either major party that a candidate’s health is important to their vote, although voters in Clinton’s party are slightly less likely to say it’s Very Important.

But only 17% of Democrats think Clinton’s health is a legitimate voter concern. Seventy-two percent (72%) think questions about their candidate’s health are just being raised by her opponents to make her look bad. Seventy-three percent (73%) of Republicans and unaffiliated voters by a 52% to 37% margin think Clinton’s health is a legitimate issue.

Among all voters, 46% think questions that have now arisen about Clinton’s health are a legitimate voter concern, but nearly as many (43%) say they are just being raised by the Democratic nominee’s opponents to hurt her. Eleven percent (11%) are undecided.

Democrats Agree Candidate Health Important, Just Not Hillary’s

Horribile dictu!

Most everyone - except you - think a candidate's health is an important factor in making their selection, only the "I'm with her" folks give HRC and pass and the "Deplorables" think it's totally disqualifying. Well duh, as the kids say.

[ljaycox]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

I have not followed any of this, until now.
i have a very dear friend who was an excellent surgeon. He has Parkinson's and I have helped him many times in public making certain that he could handle physical transitions safely while we were out.
i personally, was sickened and stunned by that video of Mrs. Clinton. Her body was doing (or actually not doing) some things I have seen many times. I am not a doctor, and will not pretend to be to diagnose anything. But, I have cared for people sick with pneumonia and it does not look like that.
She did not "stumble", she had that look as if she very much wanted those legs to go; but they were not "hearing" the message.
Her face is not visible in the video, but there is a very peculiar look on the face of someone whose mind is sharp, but is no longer in control of their body. A mix of frustration and despair.
I thought perhaps her upper was frozen by the vest she is undoubtably wearing, but here legs were not just weak.
This is very disturbing. I don't know, but I would not be at all surprised anymore to find out that she has a serious neurological condition like Parkinson's. Our friend would totally fall apart, then with short rest and medication would be fine in short order.

[Woodsman]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

I have not followed any of this, until now.
i have a very dear friend who was an excellent surgeon. He has Parkinson's and I have helped him many times in public making certain that he could handle physical transitions safely while we were out.
i personally, was sickened and stunned by that video of Mrs. Clinton. Her body was doing (or actually not doing) some things I have seen many times. I am not a doctor, and will not pretend to be to diagnose anything. But, I have cared for people sick with pneumonia and it does not look like that.
She did not "stumble", she had that look as if she very much wanted those legs to go; but they were not "hearing" the message.
Her face is not visible in the video, but there is a very peculiar look on the face of someone whose mind is sharp, but is no longer in control of their body. A mix of frustration and despair.
I thought perhaps her upper was frozen by the vest she is undoubtably wearing, but here legs were not just weak.
This is very disturbing. I don't know, but I would not be at all surprised anymore to find out that she has a serious neurological condition like Parkinson's. Our friend would totally fall apart, then with short rest and medication would be fine in short order.

This is my uninformed suspicion too, that she is suffering from Parkinson's disease or some similar neurological malady. I did not give it too much thought until the video of her being dragged into the car. Then the lines started intersecting, with her falls, the freezing and such.

As you say, it seemed as if she commanded herself to move but the body failed to respond effectively. Thus the unnatural stiffness, the shaky, stuttering movements, the legs dragging and the fall into the car. She may or may not have pneumonia, but I can't help to think that there is something far more serious at play here that the Clintons are covering up with the help of the media. As DC mentioned, there are ample precedents for us to review.

I think the cat is out of the bag and we will inevitably witness another episode, given the grueling schedule of the campaign and the intensity of the final weeks before election day. The press seemed quite annoyed that after carrying her water and doing all they could to bat down and discredit speculation about her health, she "stiffs" them like this and makes them look every bit the HRC partisans they are. I imagine that they think something along the lines, if we're going to help her she needs to come clean with us otherwise we look like fools. Listen to the irritation Andrea Mitchell is communicating here:

But the fact that [the Clintons] did not say anything on Friday, when they had an affirmative obligation to the public to the public -- to us, after telling us that the cough in Cleveland on Labor Day was just seasonal allergies, which is what she thought. But after she had an exam on Friday morning, they had an affirmative obligation to tell us about the disagnosis of pneumonia...

Eight hours after this first happened, they finally tell us about the diagnosis of pneumonia that occurred on Friday. I'm sorry -- there is an obligation, not written, not in law --and Donald Trump is even worse than she is, in terms of telling us anything about his medical records-- so, you know, we've got a lot of problems with both campaigns.

Andrea Mitchell: Clinton Had An "Affirmative Obligation" To Tell Us About Pneumonia Diagnosis On Friday

She had an obligation "to us" the media, says Mitchell. When she says an obligation "to us" it implies a transaction of some sort, perhaps a "you come clean with us and we'll run interference for you." It's as if they are pissed off that she did not stand up to her end of the bargain, so to speak, and made the press look like fools. I think here of the WaPo telling us that we're crazy to be concerned over health conspiracy theories only to have theory made fact three days later and forcing them to admit their error.

...I wrote dismissively of that conspiracy theory in this space last week, noting that Clinton had been given an entirely clean bill of health by her doctors after an episode in which she fainted, suffered a concussion and then was found to have a blood clot in late 2012 and early 2013.

Coughing, I wrote, is simply not evidence enough of any sort of major illness that Clinton is assumed to be hiding. Neither, of course, is feeling "overheated." But those two things happening within six days of each other to a candidate who is 68 years old makes talk of Clinton's health no longer just the stuff of conspiracy theorists.

Hillary Clinton’s health just became a real issue in the presidential campaign

I expect the Clintons smoothed over the ruffled feathers of the network execs and favored reporters, no doubt shaking the totem doll of big bad Donald in front of them reminding them of the stakes if they fail to play along. You'd think they would get the clue as to the fate of anyone who puts their trust in these people, but I suppose they can't really help themselves.

It's still a relatively long time between now and D-Day and I fully expect HRC to play the woe is me victim card if Trump pushes too hard on the matter. And note how he's been surprisingly gracious about it since Sunday, no doubt foiling Robby Mook's plans to make lemonade out of the bushel of lemons his candidate dumped on him. Here the poor lad Robby is dreaming of Chief of Staff or Special Assistant or DNC chair or some plum gig, and now it looks like he may have to satisfy himself with "MSNBC analyst" if HRC takes another tumble.

[jk]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

i still think the most likely [by virtue of being the most common] explanation of that video is significant hypotension 2o to dehydration and, perhaps, a chronically lowish blood pressure, as is fairly common in women.

if you want to diagnose parkinson's i'd say you need a video demonstrating a resting tremor. and that tremor would have to look like a parkinson's tremor as opposed to other types of tremor.

[Woodsman]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

i still think the most likely [by virtue of being the most common] explanation of that video is significant hypotension 2o to dehydration and, perhaps, a chronically lowish blood pressure, as is fairly common in women.

if you want to diagnose parkinson's i'd say you need a video demonstrating a resting tremor. and that tremor would have to look like a parkinson's tremor as opposed to other types of tremor.

As I implied, I can't diagnose anything via TV and the web, doctor. And neither can you.

[DSpencer]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

I'm curious, DS. If you believe her to be corrupt, mendacious and criminal, what are you going on about here? VT posted a whopper, we asked that he use more discretion, explained why we thought it was important and he agreed. End of story.

Okay, so you don't think a candidate's health is something voters should consider when making a choice. Great to know. I'm sure you understand that it's a minority view, certainly, but more power to you.

Sometimes you just get so tired of seeing BS that you feel the need to call it out. He's still pretending like he just innocently posed a few genuine questions.

I am not claiming that under no circumstances is a candidate's health important. I think the issue is complex because of the need to have a balance of personal privacy and public disclosure. Obviously there are circumstances where a candidate's health could be important. But what is the expectation we should have? Have far back does our right to know extend? What does it cover? Do we have a right to know every candidate's full medical history? Whether they have/had hemorrhoids, genital warts, IBS, erectile dysfunction, peanut allergies, breast augmentation, liposuction, abortion, fertility treatment, prostate cancer, etc.? Where do we draw the line? Is getting some doctor to write a ridiculous letter like Trump did sufficient medical disclosure?

There's a reason that we have pretty strong laws protecting health information in the US. What is the impact on our pool of candidates if everyone knows that signing a full release to all medical records is now part of the vetting process? And does it matter just for POTUS or should Senators and Governors require the same disclosure?

The polls you posted are interesting. However, the message seems to be "of course a candidate's health is an important issue!...Just so long as we are talking about the other candidate"

Not that it will help, but just to clarify. I am not trying to sweep this issue under the rug. I think this latest situation with Hillary's health is a huge deal. However, I think the most important takeaway is Hillary's dishonesty. Her first instinct was to conceal the truth, her second instinct was to lie about it, her third instinct was to put on a show to reinforce the lie. The best case scenario is that after all that didn't work, she finally told the truth. The other alternative is that the pneumonia story is also a lie or half-truth designed to conceal a bigger problem. Anyone that votes for her should fully expect to be lied to on a regular basis.

[Woodsman]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

All good points for us to consider, DS. It's not for nothing they call it the silly season.

[jk]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

the fact that someone doesn't take a step ["freezes"] is hardly diagnostic of anything. otoh, there is a characteristic tremor in parkinson's unlike other tremors and i have seen no video in which hillary demonstrates such a tremor. of course the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but for now the parkinson's "diagnosis" is as baseless as the hiv/aids "diagnosis" being bandied about in some precincts.

of course "zebras" are a lot more exciting than "horses." that's why medical students are attracted to "zebras."

the other characteristic of under-treated parkinsonism is "masked facies." there is no evidence of that, and if present you'd see it in every video which showed hillary's face.

some of the medicines i prescribe cause parkinsonism [not parkinson's disease], so i am frequently in the position of diagnosing it. the easily visible masked facies and/or the tremor provide the suspicion, a simple test for "cogwheeling" confirms the syndrome.

[Woodsman]

Re: Wot is wrong with her????

No diagnosis can be made from our perspective. So we have our opinions and I thank you for your generosity in sharing your's, jk.