Solution To Immigration Issue?

[vt]

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1497519...tion-and-deals

[BK]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

Amazing. For the last 10 years politicians and journalists have stuck with the 11,000,0000 - 15,000,000 number of illegal or undocumented citizens.

I'm no math major, but I am willing to bet that the real number of undocumented global citizens visiting and working in the USA is closer to 50 Million to 60 Million.

Hell will freeze over prior to Feds giving an accurate number.

[shiny!]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

I liked that post from Adams.

Here's Trump's immigration policy speech given last night in Phoenix after his visit with Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto. It starts at 22:00 minutes in:

[santafe2]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

Hell will freeze over prior to Feds giving an accurate number.

Hell will freeze before we deport more than the current token number of undocumented workers. There's a huge industry devoted to building out the border, patrolling the border, chasing these folks down, documenting their undocumented status, jailing them, deporting them so the can walk back in again, reporting on immigration, organizing to feed and house immigrants, organizing to oust immigrants and much more. It's a great business unless you're the product.

[BK]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

We are in complete agreement. You forget the thriving business called the Dept of Corrections - nothing like letting lots of poor people over your border see if they commit any crimes because they have substance abuse problems before they arrive or they have no means of support here in the USA, then you get to lock them up and hire well paid Union employees to keep an eye on them behind bars. ;-)

[santafe2]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

We are in complete agreement. You forget the thriving business called the Dept of Corrections - nothing like letting lots of poor people over your border see if they commit any crimes because they have substance abuse problems before they arrive or they have no means of support here in the USA, then you get to lock them up and hire well paid Union employees to keep an eye on them behind bars. ;-)

This idea fits well with the thesis I've talked about before on iTulip. We put so many people in jail because being a prison inmate is economically, the best job most inmates will ever have. The land of the free is a fairly cold hearted location. There's nothing new to see here, it's always been this way.

[Woodsman]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

I liked that post from Adams.

Here's Trump's immigration policy speech given last night in Phoenix after his visit with Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto. It starts at 22:00 minutes in:

Well it certainly got Pat's Irish up.

He is betting the election on his belief that the American people prefer his stands to Clinton’s call for amnesty.

A core principle enunciated by Trump in Phoenix appears to be a guiding light behind his immigration policy.

“Anyone who tells you that the core issue is the needs of those living here illegally has simply spent too much time Washington. … There is only one core issue in the immigration debate, and that issue is the well-being of the American people. … Nothing even comes a close second.”

The “well-being of the American people” may be the yardstick by which U.S. policies will be measured in a Trump presidency. This is also applicable to Trump’s stand on trade and foreign policy.

Do NAFTA, the WTO, MFN for China, the South Korea deal and TPP advance the “well-being of the American people”? Or do they serve more the interests of foreign regimes and corporate elites?

Some $12 trillion in trade deficits since George H. W. Bush gives you the answer.

Which of the military interventions and foreign wars from Serbia to Afghanistan to Iraq to Libya to Yemen to Syria served the “well-being of the American people”?

Are the American people well served by commitments in perpetuity to 60- and 65-year-old treaties to wage war on Russia and China on behalf of scores of nations across Eurasia, most of which have been free riders on U.S. defense for decades?

Trump’s “core issue” might be called Americanism.

Whatever the outcome of this election, these concerns are not going away. For they have arisen out of a deeply dissatisfied and angry electorate that is alienated from the elites both parties.

Indeed, alienation explains the endurance of Trump, despite his recent difficulties. Americans want change, and he alone offers it.

In the last two weeks, Trump has seen a slow rise in the polls, matched by a perceptible decline in support for Clinton. The latest Rasmussen poll now has Trump at 40, with Clinton slipping to 39.

This race is now Trump’s to win or lose. For he alone brings a fresh perspective to policies that have stood stagnant under both parties.

Conquistador Trump

[jk]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

new motto for tulip? or maybe just for this thread:

“If you are not having a fight with somebody,” Tom Wolfe told The Guardian in 2004, “then you are not sure whether you are alive when you wake up in the morning.”

[Woodsman]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

new motto for tulip? or maybe just for this thread:

“If you are not having a fight with somebody,” Tom Wolfe told The Guardian in 2004, “then you are not sure whether you are alive when you wake up in the morning.”

Well, where there's a fight...

you'll find fighters.

[jk]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

my favorite story about a fight between writers is about norman mailer and gore vidal. mailer punched vidal and knocked him down. on the floor, vidal said: "once again, words fail norman mailer."

[shiny!]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

For discussion, these are the 10 points of Trump's immigration policy:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/0...igration-plan/

Aug 31, 2016 11:23 pm ET

Donald Trump delivered a speech on immigration Wednesday night that provided details on his plans for controlling the Mexican border and deporting some illegal immigrants, as well as cutting back on legal immigration. The speech laid out 10 major parts of the plan. Here are those parts, as he described them in the prepared text of his speech released by the Trump campaign, with selected additional details he provided.

* * *

Number One: We will build a wall along the southern border

On day one, we will begin working on an impenetrable physical wall on the southern border. We will use the best technology, including above-and below-ground sensors, towers, aerial surveillance and manpower to supplement the wall, find and dislocate tunnels, and keep out the criminal cartels, and Mexico will pay for the wall.

Number Two: End ‘catch-and-release’

Anyone who illegally crosses the border will be detained until they are removed out of our country.

Number Three: Zero tolerance for criminal aliens

According to federal data, there are at least 2 million criminal aliens now inside the country. We will begin moving them out day one, in joint operations with local, state and federal law enforcement.

Beyond the 2 million, there are a vast number of additional criminal illegal immigrants who have fled or evaded justice. But their days on the run will soon be over. They go out, and they go out fast. …

We are going to triple the number of ICE deportation officers. Within ICE, I am going to create a new special Deportation Task Force, focused on identifying and removing quickly the most dangerous criminal illegal immigrants in America who have evaded justice. …. We’re also going to hire 5,000 more Border Patrol agents, and put more of them on the border, instead of behind desks. We will expand the number of Border Patrol Stations.

Number Four: Block funding for Sanctuary Cities

We will end the Sanctuary Cities that have resulted in so many needless deaths. Cities that refuse to cooperate with federal authorities will not receive taxpayer dollars, and we will work with Congress to pass legislation to protect those jurisdictions that do assist federal authorities.

Number Five: Cancel unconstitutional executive orders and enforce all immigration laws

We will immediately terminate President Obama’s two illegal executive amnesties, in which he defied federal law and the constitution to give amnesty to approximately five million illegal immigrants. … In a Trump administration, all immigration laws will be enforced.

Number Six: We are going to suspend the issuance of visas to any place where adequate screening cannot occur

According to data provided to the Senate Subcommittee on Immigration and the National Interest, between 9/11 and the end of 2014, at least 380 foreign-born individuals were convicted in terror cases inside the United States. The number is likely higher, but the Administration refuses to provide this information to Congress.

As soon as I enter office, I am going to ask the Department of State, Homeland Security and the Department of Justice to begin a comprehensive review of these cases in order to develop a list of regions and countries from which immigration must be suspended until proven and effective vetting mechanisms can be put into place.

Countries from which immigration will be suspended would include places like Syria and Libya.

For the price of resettling 1 refugee in the United States, 12 could be resettled in a safe zone in their home region.

Another reform involves new screening tests for all applicants that include an ideological certification to make sure that those we are admitting to our country share our values and love our people.

Number Seven: We will ensure that other countries take their people back when we order them deported

There are at least 23 countries that refuse to take their people back after they have been ordered to leave the United States, including large numbers of violent criminals. Due to a Supreme Court decision, if these violent offenders cannot be sent home, our law enforcement officers have to release them into U.S. communities. …. Those released include individuals convicted of killings, sexual assault and some of the most heinous crimes imaginable, who went on to reoffend at a very high rate.

Number Eight: We will finally complete the biometric entry-exit visa tracking system

For years, Congress has required a biometric entry-exit visa tracking system, but it has never been completed.

In my administration, we will ensure that this system is in place at all land, air, and sea ports. …Last year alone, nearly a half a million individuals overstayed their temporary visas. Removing visa overstays will be a top priority of my Administration. If people around the world believe they can just come on a temporary visa and never leave – the Obama-Clinton policy – then we have a completely open border. We must send the message that visa expiration dates will be strongly enforced.

Number Nine: We will turn off the jobs and benefits magnet

We will ensure that E-Verify is used to the fullest extent possible under existing law, and will work with Congress to strengthen and expand its use across the country. …Those who abuse our welfare system will be priorities for removal.

Number 10: We will reform legal immigration to serve the best interests of America and its workers

…The time has come for a new immigration commission to develop a new set of reforms to our legal immigration system in order to achieve the following goals:

– To keep immigration levels, measured by population share, within historical norms

– To select immigrants based on their likelihood of success in U.S. society, and their ability to be financially self-sufficient. We need a system that serves our needs – remember, it’s America First.

– To choose immigrants based on merit, skill and proficiency

– And to establish new immigration controls to boost wages and to ensure that open jobs are offered to American workers first.

I don't see it in this article but I seem to remember him mentioning something about making it so illegals can't benefit from Obamacare or buy insurance on the exchange. I assume he meant not receiving taxpayer paid subsidies on their insurance. If so, there could be some bad unintended consequences from that. People getting hospital treatment without being able to pay for it.

I've been told that in Mexico if you get hospitalized you have to pay the bill in its entirety before they will release you.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

I assume he meant not receiving taxpayer paid subsidies on their insurance. If so, there could be some bad unintended consequences from that. People getting hospital treatment without being able to pay for it.

I'm not sure how that would work even now. You have to file taxes and have an active SSN to get a subsidy. I'm imagining not many illegal/undocumented immigrants do that. Even if they did, at least in the states that expanded Medicaid, you need to be earning within a very narrow range to receive a subsidy at all. It's pretty much only in the range between $23,000 and $28,000 per year for individual insurance (there are a lot of rules, they revolve around the second cheapest silver plan on your exchange, etc etc). Suffice it to say that full time somewhere between about $11 and $14 per hour, you get subsidies. Less than that you don't because you're Medicaid eligible. More than that, you don't. If you make $15 per hour? No subsidy. Zero. You pay full boat.

Now, there's not an insignificant number of people who earn in that range, especially in the states that didn't extend Medicaid.

But all that aside, it really is a weird range of earnings. Professional or semi-skilled jobs tend to offer $15 just about right off of the bat. Even third shift gas station gigs will get you $15. Minimum wage is already $10 where I am. Lots of jobs pay at or just over minimum. $10-$12. Not a lot paying $13 or $14. That's just a weird range where it's more than the minimum wage jobs with little raises will ever pay, but less than even entry semi-skilled work can make (even temporary house painting will earn you $15).

My complaint with the subsidies is that they don't care how much of your income goes to healthcare, because that's just one of the 3 criteria. So it's perfectly possible (and common) to have a kid get out of school, land a $30k/year entry level job, and end up paying $7k per year to Obamacare premiums, $7k per year to student loans, $10k per year to rent, and the rest to Uncle Sam and the state. That means the bank of mom and dad have to cover food, transportation, telecom, and entertainment.

The subsidies should really climb up to cut the sting out of it more. 25% of your income is too much to be paying to healthcare premiums. But they just don't care about the middle class...

[Southernguy]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

Did he say something about the special inmigration status for Cubans?

[shiny!]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

Did he say something about the special inmigration status for Cubans?

I don't think so, but maybe he did and I missed it. Can you see the video where you are?

[shiny!]

Re: Solution To Immigration Issue?

I'm not sure how that would work even now. You have to file taxes and have an active SSN to get a subsidy. I'm imagining not many illegal/undocumented immigrants do that. Even if they did, at least in the states that expanded Medicaid, you need to be earning within a very narrow range to receive a subsidy at all. It's pretty much only in the range between $23,000 and $28,000 per year for individual insurance (there are a lot of rules, they revolve around the second cheapest silver plan on your exchange, etc etc). Suffice it to say that full time somewhere between about $11 and $14 per hour, you get subsidies. Less than that you don't because you're Medicaid eligible. More than that, you don't. If you make $15 per hour? No subsidy. Zero. You pay full boat.

Now, there's not an insignificant number of people who earn in that range, especially in the states that didn't extend Medicaid.

But all that aside, it really is a weird range of earnings. Professional or semi-skilled jobs tend to offer $15 just about right off of the bat. Even third shift gas station gigs will get you $15. Minimum wage is already $10 where I am. Lots of jobs pay at or just over minimum. $10-$12. Not a lot paying $13 or $14. That's just a weird range where it's more than the minimum wage jobs with little raises will ever pay, but less than even entry semi-skilled work can make (even temporary house painting will earn you $15).

My complaint with the subsidies is that they don't care how much of your income goes to healthcare, because that's just one of the 3 criteria. So it's perfectly possible (and common) to have a kid get out of school, land a $30k/year entry level job, and end up paying $7k per year to Obamacare premiums, $7k per year to student loans, $10k per year to rent, and the rest to Uncle Sam and the state. That means the bank of mom and dad have to cover food, transportation, telecom, and entertainment.

The subsidies should really climb up to cut the sting out of it more. 25% of your income is too much to be paying to healthcare premiums. But they just don't care about the middle class...

I'm convinced that Obamacare was designed to fail spectacularly so they can say, "We tried, it failed, now we need to go to single-payer." Which at this point I'm ready to embrace since the "I" of FIRE is such a cancer.