Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

[vt]

http://www.businessinsider.com/neil-...ulation-2016-4

[shiny!]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

On a purely gut level Tyson's hypothesis clicks with me. I find it comforting. Here's how it was summarized on /.

Neil deGrasse Tyson Says It's 'Very Likely' The Universe Is A Simulation

This is the crux of Tyson's point: if we take it as read that it is, in principle, possible to simulate a universe in some way, at some point in the future, then we have to assume that on an infinite timeline some species, somewhere, will simulate the universe. And if the universe will be perfectly, or near-perfectly, simulated at some point, then we have to examine the possibility that we live inside such a universe. And, on a truly infinite timeline, we might expect an almost infinite number of simulations to arise from an almost infinite number or civilizations -- and indeed, a sophisticated-enough simulation might be able to let its simulated denizens themselves run universal simulations, and at that point all bets are officially off.

[jk]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

a. too casual about the "infinite." we have no reason to believe in infinite time.
b. if we are in a simulation and can communicate with its creator[s], then we should. where are they? like the fermi paradox for advanced civilizations.
c. if are in a simulation but cannot communicate with its creator[s], what difference does it make?

[shiny!]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

a. too casual about the "infinite." we have no reason to believe in infinite time.
b. if we are in a simulation and can communicate with its creator[s], then we should. where are they? like the fermi paradox for advanced civilizations.
c. if are in a simulation but cannot communicate with its creator[s], what difference does it make?

Personally, it means a lot to think that there may be alternate universes, or parallel universes, or an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of permutations. Tyson is calling them "simulations," but physicists have long toyed with the idea that there are an infinite number of "infinite universes." Is it a distinction without a difference? I can't wrap my head around even one infinite universe, let alone an infinite number of them, but I can grasp simulations.

I had a conversation with Roger Zelazny once. We were talking about where a writer's inspiration came from. He told me that he believed that every possibility really exists and happens somewhere, and that a writer somehow taps into those other realities. What he's writing is only fantasy here, but is reality somewhere else.

All his life, Nicola Tesla had a continuing dream every night about living in another, more advanced, world. The people, relationships and events in his dream world had total continuity from one night to the next. It was a paralled life he led that was as real as the life he lived here. In that world, he went to sleep every night and dreamt this life. The inventions he came up with were commonplace in that other world. The struggles he had to bring them to fruition here were due to limitations in our present state of materials and machinery. Which world was real? Which world was the dream? With Tyson's hypothesis, both worlds are equally real and Tesla was able to be present and aware in both.

I had a dream not long ago, one of those rare "more-real-than-real-life" dreams, where I found myself in a world where everything was the same as this one, but my husband had survived the accident with nothing worse than a wooden leg. The joy and relief I felt at seeing him alive again was overwhelming. I told him that I had been in a horrible world where he had died five years ago, and my life sucked beyond the telling. Then I woke up to findmyself back in this world, and had to grieve his loss all over again. It almost did me in. If I give Tyson's hypothesis the benefit of the doubt, it gives me great comfort to think that this reality is only one simulation, and there is another simulation going on somewhere, somewhen, where my husband survived and we are happy.

It gives me comfort to think that this world of unspeakable suffering is a simulation, not the will of a God that I find myself unable to love or worship. I don't feel obligated to love and worship a simulation or it's creators. Sure, I know that I'm grasping for comfort, and a comforting belief isn't necessarily true. But since I can't take comfort in addictions, religion or the belief in a loving God, Tyson's hypothesis will do me just fine, even if it is a delusion.

If we're living in a simulation, once enough of us realize it the veil will be lifted. One of my favorite short stories is Theodore Sturgeon's Microcosmic God, published in 1941.

[jk]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

the problem with multiverse theories- whether the bubble universes of everlasting inflation or everett's manyworld interpretation of quantum mechanics - is that they are not science. this is also true of the string landscape. these things are postulated essentially as belief systems since they are not subject to experimental test. they may be nice and mathematically elegant, but they're fantasies not science. [see peter woit's blog "not even wrong."] if some means of experimental test comes along, we can then call these theories scientific and try to learn whether, along with being scientific, they are true. in the meantime they are a species of religion. of course religion, i observe, has its comforts. for good or ill, however, i've never been able to partake of those comforts.

[loweyecue]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

So is much of everything outside of Physics, chemistry and biology. It depends on how narrow or how broad your definition of science is. Is economics science?
I think belief systems are undeniable and in most cases they give comfort to those that indulge in them. Religion is a belief system as well. Before the invention of a telescope, planets revolving around the sun was a belief system as well.

Now things like religion have given comfort to millions of people, but also millions have been butchered to death in the name of religion. Belief systems are powerful things and can have many good and bad outcomes. But if rely on science alone we would lose our imagination and creativity. And as Einstein said, imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited to what we know, imagination allows you to visualize what isn't.

[jk]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

Is economics science?

mostly no. some behavioral economics is science imo.

I think belief systems are undeniable and in most cases they give comfort to those that indulge in them. Religion is a belief system as well. Before the invention of a telescope, planets revolving around the sun was a belief system as well.

Now things like religion have given comfort to millions of people, but also millions have been butchered to death in the name of religion. Belief systems are powerful things and can have many good and bad outcomes. But if rely on science alone we would lose our imagination and creativity. And as Einstein said, imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited to what we know, imagination allows you to visualize what isn't.

i've got nothing against belief systems or imagination. i have problem, however, when people want to call such things either "truth" or "science."

[loweyecue]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

I would tend to agree that it is not science. But truth is somewhat relative, science on the other hand is less so.There's a lot we don't know about the universe yet, indeed our knowledge may be in it's adolescence. When you try to explain something beyond current knowledge that's when people grasp for belief systems. When something has not been proved through rigorous experimentation yet, it isn't necessarily untrue. Hence my comment about planets revolving around the sun.

I rely on science as much as the next guy, I hold it's practitioners to very narrow standards of rigorous hypothesis testing as well. But I have more of a philosophical position on truth.

[vt]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

True millions have died over religions, but millions died from fascism and tens of millions have died over communism. Politics has killed far more than religions.

If we got rid of both you'd think there would be peace but humans would find some other cause to kill each other

[loweyecue]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

Which really lends even more support to what was being discussed, since politics is as much a faith based belief system as religion.

I recently read an article where someone was being asked what helped humans separate from other species and become dominant - and the core of he answer was that it was our imagination and our ability to communicate and subscribe others to our ideas. Ironically enough that's also the core of a belief system.

[santafe2]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

But if rely on science alone we would lose our imagination and creativity. And as Einstein said, imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited to what we know, imagination allows you to visualize what isn't.

Advances in science are built upon both knowledge and imagination. Science is not only knowledge. You could have said "But if [we] rely on knowledge alone we would lose our imagination and creativity". That is a correct statement but when you conflate science with knowledge you dumb down the concept of science.

[LazyBoy]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

[jk]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

no, it's just ME.

[DSpencer]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

On a purely gut level Tyson's hypothesis clicks with me. I find it comforting. Here's how it was summarized on /.

Just to be clear, this isn't a hypothesis that Neil deGrasse Tyson created. This line of thinking has existed for a very long time. Another example of the Matthew Effect in action.

[davidstvz]

Re: Neil Degrasse Tyson- The Universe Might Be A Simulation

I think it takes an unfounded faith in computing and our ability to find abundant future energy resources to believe that we as a species (in any future form) will someday have enough computing power and skill to be able to simulate a universe of the complexity and size of our own. If you take away that unreasonable assumption, the idea that we are living in a simulated universe ourselves becomes very unlikely. To look at it another way, a megaverse made of an infinite number of universes will produce more universes with life than simulations springing from a finite universe.