Tesla model 3.........discuss

[BK]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

;-) Astonas , can we get back to discussing details like the alternating current induction servo motor used in the Tesla Motors Model S and X?

This attacking the person is a sophomoric technique to distract people from the details tesla motors supply chain.

Main product for Fukuta is the AC Induction motor and Fukuta was established in 1988 http://www.taiwantrade.com.tw/compan...-ltd-2209.html

Please refrain from attacking me and stick to attacking my assertion that the motor is supplied to Tesla by Fukuta, and the design of the motor belongs to Fukuta.


From Motor magazine... http://www.motor.com/newsletters/201...D2_Copper.html
“Right now it appears that the future trend will be for electric vehicles to rely more on copper rotor motors,” says Gordon Chang, Fukuta’s founder and general manager. “We have seen that Tesla’s copper rotor motors haven’t had any problems during the nearly four years that they have been out on the market. This is sufficient proof for us that this product is able to pass the so-called four-year field test.”

[jk]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

i notice that no one is convincing anyone to change his or her mind, and that plentiful assertions and links have been posted. maybe it's time to move on?

why would anyone continue posting repetitive pieces of information beyond this point?

[BK]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

Sante Fe,

Sadly you take to route of the mob and attack while ignoring the data.

I've been a car guy since I could drive. I never understand why Tesla Motors never want to talk details about the powertrain? When I buy a car or a friend buys a car all I want to hear about is the power train and how it works. My favorite engine was the GM straight six or I love the 2.5 Liter V6 in a Mercury Capri I owned.

Sadly, when a mania is on anyone that offers facts or details gets attacked.

JK is correct this is wasted effort. EJ said it best never try to wake a dreamer (from their delusion).

Best Regards.

[santafe2]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

Sante Fe,

Sadly you take to route of the mob and attack while ignoring the data.

I've been a car guy since I could drive. I never understand why Tesla Motors never want to talk details about the powertrain? When I buy a car or a friend buys a car all I want to hear about is the power train and how it works. My favorite engine was the GM straight six or I love the 2.5 Liter V6 in a Mercury Capri I owned.

Sadly, when a mania is on anyone that offers facts or details gets attacked.

JK is correct this is wasted effort. EJ said it best never try to wake a dreamer (from their delusion).

Best Regards.

Agree, you are deluded. I'm out of this thread.

[BK]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

Fukuta-tesla-Jan16.jpgTesla-early-Jan.jpgMotors-from-Fukuta.jpg

Above, the 2016 Bill of ladings form motors (described as motor parts) from Fukuta to Tesla Motors.

Products from Fukuta... you will notice Fukuta sell complete motors and does not advertise itself as selling motor parts or sub assemblies.

http://fukuta-motor.com.tw/en/products.html

[jk]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5782[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5781[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5783[/ATTACH]

Above, the 2016 Bill of ladings form motors (described as motor parts) from Fukuta to Tesla Motors.

Products from Fukuta... you will notice Fukuta sell complete motors and does not advertise itself as selling motor parts or sub assemblies.

http://fukuta-motor.com.tw/en/products.html

just can't stop, can you? have to have the last word? think you can refrain from replying to this?

[BK]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

Sorry. JK, I hate the personal attacks on me and never attacking the evidence I present.

It's the same with every one who worships the Church of Elon Musk. I have represented software companies that no one thought were valuable...natural language processing for computers in the 1990s ( I love cutting edge technology).... the ability to share multiple IP addresses for Windows machine (both were acquired by Microsoft). Regularly I get confronted by modern day know-nothings who think Elon Musk is Steve Jobs and other rubbish... I understand technology and I know when I see bunk science and Tesla Motors is bunk science.

Best Regards.

[jk]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

guess you couldn't resist. again.

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5782[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5781[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5783[/ATTACH]

Above, the 2016 Bill of ladings form motors (described as motor parts) from Fukuta to Tesla Motors.

Products from Fukuta... you will notice Fukuta sell complete motors and does not advertise itself as selling motor parts or sub assemblies.

http://fukuta-motor.com.tw/en/products.html

I know a lot of people are going to hate me for continuing this thread but ...

What is notable about those forms? Other than the forms showing that Tesla buys electric motors from Fukuta, is there something else?

[BK]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

Fukuta (an ev motor company) provides all the motors for Tesla Motors. Elon Musk claims that Tesla Motors builds their own motor. This is one of many fibs about the company. Why is this relevent? Powertrain is the most crucial part of auto design and has always been herald has the secret sauce for any major auto company.

Fukuta is a very small and privately held company. Ultimately, motor reliability and the ability of the motor supplier to scale with sales is key ( the auto business is all about logistics and reliable manufacturing).

Fukuta - does not sell motor parts ... Fukuta pioneered the design of light weigh AC (alternating current) induction servo motor and if people are going to rave about Tesla Motors INSANE mode then they need to congratulate Gordon Chang, GM of Fukuta.

From the Tesla Motors prospectus "Our battery pack and electric powertrain system has enabled us to deliver market-leading range capability on the Tesla Roadster at what we believe is a compelling battery cost per kilowatt-hour. The battery pack of the Tesla Roadster uses commercially available lithium-ion battery cells and contains 53 kilowatt-hours of usable energy, almost double the energy of any other commercially available electric vehicle battery pack, thereby significantly increasing its range capability. Designing an electric powertrain and a vehicle to exploit its energy efficiency has required extensive safety testing and innovation in battery packs, motors, powertrain systems and vehicle engineering. Our proprietary technology includes cooling systems, safety systems, charge balancing systems, battery engineering for vibration and environmental durability, customized motor design "http://ir.teslamotors.com/secfiling.cfm?filingid=1193125-11-158323&cik=1318605

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

Fukuta (an ev motor company) provides all the motors for Tesla Motors. Elon Musk claims that Tesla Motors builds their own motor. This is one of many fibs about the company. Why is this relevent? Powertrain is the most crucial part of auto design and has always been herald has the secret sauce for any major auto company.

I know very little about cars but what I've read is that an electric motor is quite different from a gasoline or diesel motor in that it is much easier to create a highly reliable electric motor than a motor that combusts hydrocarbons. It seems that all Fukuta has to do is use high-quality steel, good ball bearings, and have good precision manufacturing to have a reliable motor.

There have been some problems reported with Tesla motors in the past but it doesn't seem to be widespread otherwise it likely would have made most of the major news outlets. My gut feeling is that the electric motor in the Tesla vehicle is "good enough" to not cause financial troubles for the company.

Fukuta is a very small and privately held company. Ultimately, motor reliability and the ability of the motor supplier to scale with sales is key ( the auto business is all about logistics and reliable manufacturing).

Hahaha. I was just thinking that if Fukuta is not able to scale up quickly enough, it might actually save Tesla or at least buy them more time. The Model 3 looks like a dot-com meme of selling things at a loss and "making it up on volume." Failure to scale may lower the rate at which Tesla loses money. Of course, maybe Tesla will reduce the cost to produce such a vehicle in about 18 months' time. However, I do have my doubts being that they've been selling cars that cost about $85K - $100K+ for a few years now and are still losing lots of money.

As others have stated here, I strongly suspect that most buyers of the Model 3 will end up paying quite a bit more than $35,000 (before any government incentives) either due to a higher list price or "options" that people normally expect to be standard features. Maybe that'll allow them to make money on the Model 3 if the higher price doesn't reduce demand too much.

From the Tesla Motors prospectus "Our battery pack and electric powertrain system has enabled us to deliver market-leading range capability on the Tesla Roadster at what we believe is a compelling battery cost per kilowatt-hour. The battery pack of the Tesla Roadster uses commercially available lithium-ion battery cells and contains 53 kilowatt-hours of usable energy, almost double the energy of any other commercially available electric vehicle battery pack, thereby significantly increasing its range capability. Designing an electric powertrain and a vehicle to exploit its energy efficiency has required extensive safety testing and innovation in battery packs, motors, powertrain systems and vehicle engineering. Our proprietary technology includes cooling systems, safety systems, charge balancing systems, battery engineering for vibration and environmental durability, customized motor design "http://ir.teslamotors.com/secfiling.cfm?filingid=1193125-11-158323&cik=1318605

That's talking about the Tesla Roadster, which is no longer produced and was last sold over four years ago, I believe. But Tesla is saying that they "design an electric powertrain." They could be taking the Apple model of doing some things; Apple's model being "designed in Cupertino, California and manufactured in China."

[DSpencer]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

I know a lot of people are going to hate me for continuing this thread but ...

What is notable about those forms? Other than the forms showing that Tesla buys electric motors from Fukuta, is there something else?

I don't hate you for continuing the thread since it's not like there is a lot of action on itulip at this point. However, anyone interested in going down BK's conspiracy rabbit hole should first read the thread on tesla motors club that I linked. At the very least, watch this video which is actually interesting to anyone who cares about how the motors are made:

https://youtu.be/ZOriitPjlcw?t=5m25s

The link starts right where they talk about the motors and says explicitly that Tesla makes them in house. It then actually shows the motors being made, by white and black people in America, wearing Tesla shirts. What BK implies is a conspiracy that would make a flat-earther blush. The bottom line is you can read page after page on TMC and you'll inevitably conclude that:

1. BK's claims are not at all true. Or are true only by some ridiculous semantic stretch about some component being made elsewhere.
2. Even if they were true, they are basically irrelevant to anyone trading TSLA or buying Teslas.
3. BK is either: A) purposefully distorting facts to support his short position B) actually delusional C) simply a troll who posts only to satisfy trollish desires of getting others to engage him. Or maybe he's some combination.

If EJ does know him personally I hope that he will either ban him for trying to use his website for his securities fraud or see that he gets the help he needs.

Just to be clear: I do not and have not ever owned any position in TSLA, long or short other than possibly as a tiny percentage of an index fund. I have no idea whether TSLA will end the year up or down and therefore have no plans to bet on either outcome.

[BK]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

Sure, why is the customs /shipping data showing motors (yes, described as parts) from Fukuta to Tesla Motors. Fukuta does not sell or advertise motor parts , Fukuta sells complete ac induction servo motors.

Securities fraud! Do you drive a Tesla vehicle?

I'm fascinated by people mesmerized by Tesla motors without understanding how the car is made and the supply chain.

Please tell me how I fabricated the bills of lading from Fukuta to Tesla Motors, have I fabricated the Fukuta web site that clearly shows Fukuta sells complete motors, have I fabricated the Chinese news articles that show China Steel corp investment in Fukuta because they are the supplier of the motor/ drive unit for Tesla Motors?

[patrikkorda]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

If EJ does know him personally I hope that he will either ban him for trying to use his website for his securities fraud or see that he gets the help he needs.

I agree. BK should be banned whether or not EJ knows him personally. Not only does he constantly commit to ignoratio elenchi (e.g., my sister lost money is stock X) and ad hominems, he later goes on to accuse others of doing so. Complete troll that makes legitimate TSLA bears, like EJ, look foolish by association.

Tesla will probably go under because it has a rotten balance sheet. Unless the cost per kilowatt hour of li-ion batteries can continue to fall dramatically, the company will likely go bankrupt. However, to claim that Tesla is a Ponzi scheme and other nonsense is pretty annoying.

[BK]

Re: Tesla model 3.........discuss

Patrik, This rise of the mob. Patrik if you could explain away the bills of lading showing ac induction servo motor parts (complete motors ) from Fukuta to tesla motors?

Perhaps you should look at the sec filings and see the $millions of equity being extracted by insiders.

Find TSLA sales by insiders here, http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-ed...=only&count=40