The Madness of Airline Élite Status

[dcarrigg]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

Like I said initially, I don't mind paying somewhat more to recapture the lost couple inches of pitch. I do mind that it's often no longer an option. If you're going to force things to be one size fits all, I'd rather you try to hit 95% than 90%. That's all. As it is, at the rate they're shrinking seats, you may find yourself on the wrong side of the divide soon enough if they move to 25" pitch like some east asian airlines already have.

[GRG55]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

Like I said initially, I don't mind paying somewhat more to recapture the lost couple inches of pitch. I do mind that it's often no longer an option. If you're going to force things to be one size fits all, I'd rather you try to hit 95% than 90%. That's all. As it is, at the rate they're shrinking seats, you may find yourself on the wrong side of the divide soon enough if they move to 25" pitch like some east asian airlines already have.

My experience identical. Knees jammed up against the tray table on the back of the seat in front of me. I have noticed the airlines have responded to that problem - many of them severely limit the amount of recline of the seats. Pretty soon they'll eliminate the recline entirely as a cost and weight saving measure

I keep hearing that people are getting taller with each generation, and bigger with the "obesity crisis", so the trend in airline seats would seem to be going against the customer cohort.

All of that aside, the one thing that would change my opinion of air travel would be a radical injection of sanity into the airport experience. Does anybody really think we are more secure because we make grandpa strip down, make him stand on one foot then the other while wanding the soles of his feet, while the grandkids plastic backpacks are being ripped apart to see if they have a bottle of water in there? In Redmond, Oregon on a flight to Portland? Seriously.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

Back in the 1980s there was a Soviet defector doing stand-up comedy on TV with a thick Russian accent.
He was Yackov Smirnoff, his tagline was " I love America!"

He did a bit about airline deregulation and how awful air travel was becoming.
He concluded that the might of American ingenuity had successfully recreated the dismal and unpleasant Soviet Aeroflot.

[wayiwalk]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

The TSA treatment is not just at the airlines.

I went into a federal building today for a meeting. All visitors had their bags/coats x-rayed.

Each person removed their shoes (x-rayed), belts removed, etc, then went through the metal detector.

The only thing lacking was the full x-ray body scanner!

[lektrode]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

if any of y'all had to deal with what i'd had to - flying twice/week on mesa's CRJ's (Crammed Regressive Junk) in/out of HNL
having to endure the irradiate'n'grope sesh's by typically the exact same TSA gestapo personnel each time...
what, you dont recognize me after all these weeks/months/YEARS of coming thru here EVERY PHREAKIN WEEK ?

ASSuming that they even had a plane to operate for that flight (or that it might even be able to take off, never mind depart on the same phreakin day it was supposed to) after they decided they could no longer justify having 'a spare' laying around 'just in case, IF something should happen' - which was more like WHEN one of the others broke - which then meant you might have to wait HOURS if not until the next day to leave...

on top of the 1-2hours it takes to park, check-in, go thru 'security' - never mind if ya had to check a bag...

all for a 50min hop?
(or a total of 3-4hours from origin to home/work)

then y'all would really know how air travel has become a 'tribute' to 'efficiency'

[Milton Kuo]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

For whatever reason, the horrible airline seating arrangements in coach class have caught the attention of U.S. Senator Charles Schumer and he's looking to pass a regulation where the FAA will set a minimum seat size standard.

From Bloomberg, "US Senator Wants Government to Set Airline Seat-size Rules":

U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer wants to require the Federal Aviation Administration to establish seat-size standards for commercial airlines, which he says now force passengers to sit on planes "like sardines."

Schumer said seat pitch, the distance between a point on an airline seat and the same spot on the seat in front of it, has dropped from 35 inches in the 1970s to a current average of closer to 31 inches, and seat width has gone from 18.5 inches to about 16.5 inches. He argues that the requirement is needed to stop airlines from shrinking those numbers even further.

I never bothered to check how much seats have shrunk over the years but I knew something was wrong when I started feeling that the seats were too narrow to be comfortable. In addition to packing in seats more tightly, the airplane seats themselves are not as thickly padded as they used to be to allow the airline to cram in one or more extra rows of passengers.

Before I read up on shrinking airline seats, I was in puzzlement at how my rear end could have gotten fatter and yet the seats felt harder and less cushioned than ever before.

[jpatter666]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

My experience identical. Knees jammed up against the tray table on the back of the seat in front of me. I have noticed the airlines have responded to that problem - many of them severely limit the amount of recline of the seats. Pretty soon they'll eliminate the recline entirely as a cost and weight saving measure

I keep hearing that people are getting taller with each generation, and bigger with the "obesity crisis", so the trend in airline seats would seem to be going against the customer cohort.

All of that aside, the one thing that would change my opinion of air travel would be a radical injection of sanity into the airport experience. Does anybody really think we are more secure because we make grandpa strip down, make him stand on one foot then the other while wanding the soles of his feet, while the grandkids plastic backpacks are being ripped apart to see if they have a bottle of water in there? In Redmond, Oregon on a flight to Portland? Seriously.

We knuckled under and got my wife the United Card since we mostly fly out of Dulles. It's the only card we pay for. Instant Silver status and thus United Plus seating, plus no luggage fee for the first bag. So it usually evens out. Since she makes lots of overseas trips (even now in Kenya and South Sudan) it can make the difference between uncomfortable and living hell....

[shiny!]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

I'm 5'3". Unadjustable seat headrests that hit me in the back of my head, forcing my head forward and down are torture. If government's going to be a buttinsky regarding seat sizes, I wish they'd address the headrests also.

[wayiwalk]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

Before I read up on shrinking airline seats, I was in puzzlement at how my rear end could have gotten fatter and yet the seats felt harder and less cushioned than ever before.

+1 Beautiful!

[GRG55]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

For whatever reason, the horrible airline seating arrangements in coach class have caught the attention of U.S. Senator Charles Schumer and he's looking to pass a regulation where the FAA will set a minimum seat size standard.

From Bloomberg, "US Senator Wants Government to Set Airline Seat-size Rules":

U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer wants to require the Federal Aviation Administration to establish seat-size standards for commercial airlines, which he says now force passengers to sit on planes "like sardines."

Schumer said seat pitch, the distance between a point on an airline seat and the same spot on the seat in front of it, has dropped from 35 inches in the 1970s to a current average of closer to 31 inches, and seat width has gone from 18.5 inches to about 16.5 inches. He argues that the requirement is needed to stop airlines from shrinking those numbers even further.

I never bothered to check how much seats have shrunk over the years but I knew something was wrong when I started feeling that the seats were too narrow to be comfortable. In addition to packing in seats more tightly, the airplane seats themselves are not as thickly padded as they used to be to allow the airline to cram in one or more extra rows of passengers.

Before I read up on shrinking airline seats, I was in puzzlement at how my rear end could have gotten fatter and yet the seats felt harder and less cushioned than ever before.

Somehow having the Federal Aviation Administration, primarily a safety body, regulating the dimensions and pitch distances (and maybe headrests?) of airline seats seems counter-productive. Maybe Congress itself should undertake the task of determining these things and passing the required legislation? Of course that would mean it would have to agree on something.

Running an airline is a very tough business in which to make a reasonable return on capital invested. Here's Warren Buffett's take on it after making an investment in convertible preferred stock in US Air in 1989.

Over the past two decades Buffett has made a series of widely reported repudiations of airline investing, including this statement from a 2002 interview with the London newspaper The Telegraph: “If a capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk back in the early 1900s, he should have shot down Orville Wright. He would have saved his progeny money. But seriously, the airline business has been extraordinary. It has eaten up capital over the past century like almost no other business because people seem to keep coming back to it and putting fresh money in. You’ve got huge fixed costs, you’ve got strong labor unions and you’ve got commodity pricing. That is not a great recipe for success. I have an 800 (free call) number now that I call if I get the urge to buy an airline stock. I call at two in the morning and I say: ‘My name is Warren and I’m an aeroholic.’ And then they talk me down.”

The airlines also have a tremendous amount of safety related regulations and regulatory oversight - and given they seem to crash and burn a LOT less frequently than the banks perhaps a lesson for the Fed.

[GRG55]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

Maybe this is what they need to do to make (some) passengers forget about those uncomfortable seats:

Vietnam's Bikini-Clad Carrier Seeks IPO to Be `Emirates of Asia'

February 28, 2016 — 4:00 PM MST

VietJet Aviation Joint Stock Co., the Vietnamese carrier known for its bikini-clad flight attendants, may hold its initial public offering as early as the second quarter as it plans to build global routes and become a top budget airline in Asia...

[santafe2]

Re: The Madness of Airline Élite Status

Running an airline is a very tough business in which to make a reasonable return on capital invested. Here's Warren Buffett's take on it after making an investment in convertible preferred stock in US Air in 1989.

Right. How do you make a small fortune in the airline industry...start with a large one.