Sustainability Question

[ProdigyofZen]

When it comes to disposable dishes, which one is better, biodegradable or recyclable?

[shiny!]

Re: Sustainability Question

According to this article "most paper recycling can't deal with food contamination, forcing quick-serves to throw out used cups and plates," so I'd go with biodegradeable or compostable.

Check out Stalkmarket dishes. They're 100% compostable. Instead of burning sugar cane waste it gets turned into something useful.

[touchring]

Re: Sustainability Question

I'll go with recyclable plastic dishes. There is more oil in the ground than there are trees. The world is overflowing with oil, and it could last a hundred years. It has to be because oil is only $30 a barrel!

I say save the trees and use that abundant oil.

[santafe2]

Re: Sustainability Question

I'll go with recyclable plastic dishes. There is more oil in the ground than there are trees. The world is overflowing with oil, and it could last a hundred years. It has to be because oil is only $30 a barrel!

I say save the trees and use that abundant oil.

Whether it's trees or oil, at some point Greenland will be green and that will be a real sustainability problem. The first world can wring hands over biodegradable vs. recyclable but in the end it makes no difference. Zero, none. Who cares? There are 100 things you can do before you focus on something like this.

[jk]

Re: Sustainability Question

When it comes to disposable dishes, which one is better, biodegradable or recyclable?

try not using disposables in the first place. then there is no question except how much water you're using.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Sustainability Question

try not using disposables in the first place. then there is no question except how much water you're using.

I understand but it is a specific question for a large manufacturer. They are very progressive when it comes to sustainability and the environment and are trying to make every facet of their supply chain more sustainable.

If every company in the world did this, we would, over time, have a meaningful change in the environment.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Sustainability Question

These sustainability questions are tough to nail down, and the answer is not always obvious.

Coffee cups have been much studied for disposable vs reusable with no clear results.
The energy to manufacture a styrofoam cup is only 4% of the energy required to manufacture a ceramic mug.

Washing a ceramic mug takes energy too, so the energy requirement for a ceramic mug starts high and then keeps climbing.
The answers vary from study to study, but you would need to reuse and wash a ceramic mug dozens or perhaps hundreds of times before you break even just on the energy compared to using disposable foam coffee cups.

Even then the comparison is muddled. Mug washing water comes from a water treatment plant after much effort to purify it for your faucet, and the gray water after washing goes down the sewer lines to be processed in a municipal waste water treatment plant.

Foam cups might end up in a landfill or might be recycled.
Either way the old dirty foam cup will ride a truck to some destination near or far, using energy and creating pollution after disposal.

For your disposable dishes question, PoZ, I would say if the company uses biodegradable dishes and composts the waste on site to be used in lawns and beds, that's a clear winner. Anything else is a pure guess.

But huge cheers for them trying -I like this planet and want it kept nice for future generations.

[santafe2]

Re: Sustainability Question

I understand but it is a specific question for a large manufacturer. They are very progressive when it comes to sustainability and the environment and are trying to make every facet of their supply chain more sustainable.

If every company in the world did this, we would, over time, have a meaningful change in the environment.

While I don't agree with Scott Adams current political ideas, I do like his 2D world vs. 3D world model. I think it fits here. In the 2D world, companies who support sustainability matter. In the 3D world, all the little changes they make are swamped by economic growth. Their own growth negates their do gooding. Other than making them feel good about being a large manufacturer, it makes no difference.

[touchring]

Re: Sustainability Question

Whether it's trees or oil, at some point Greenland will be green and that will be a real sustainability problem. The first world can wring hands over biodegradable vs. recyclable but in the end it makes no difference. Zero, none. Who cares? There are 100 things you can do before you focus on something like this.

That's true, but a tree can remove CO2 from the atmosphere for probably a century or more. It doesn't take a climate scientist to figure that out.

I think this whole green movement is nothing but a sham.

[Ellen Z]

Re: Sustainability Question

For your disposable dishes question, PoZ, I would say if the company uses biodegradable dishes and composts the waste on site to be used in lawns and beds, that's a clear winner. Anything else is a pure guess.

But huge cheers for them trying -I like this planet and want it kept nice for future generations.

+1

[santafe2]

Re: Sustainability Question

That's true, but a tree can remove CO2 from the atmosphere for probably a century or more. It doesn't take a climate scientist to figure that out.

I think this whole green movement is nothing but a sham.

It's about 800 trees per American and ~100 gallons of water per tree per day; 90 acre feet a year per US citizen. We'd be better served to quit burning down the rainforests. We're past the half way point and if policies don't change, they will be gone by the end of this century.

As for the idea the green movement is a sham, maybe, but almost no one is willing to face what we're really experiencing; a human caused extinction event. So far, it's not working out well for all other species. We'll have to wait to see how this works out for us.

[peakishmael]

Re: Sustainability Question

It's about 800 trees per American and ~100 gallons of water per tree per day; 90 acre feet a year per US citizen. We'd be better served to quit burning down the rainforests. We're past the half way point and if policies don't change, they will be gone by the end of this century.

As for the idea the green movement is a sham, maybe, but almost no one is willing to face what we're really experiencing; a human caused extinction event. So far, it's not working out well for all other species. We'll have to wait to see how this works out for us.

+1

Ever increasing human population + ever increasing per capita human consumption. What could go wrong.

Rainforests must be burned to grow soybeans to feed cattle. My suburb still seems pretty nice.

[shiny!]

Re: Sustainability Question

It's about 800 trees per American and ~100 gallons of water per tree per day; 90 acre feet a year per US citizen. We'd be better served to quit burning down the rainforests. We're past the half way point and if policies don't change, they will be gone by the end of this century.

As for the idea the green movement is a sham, maybe, but almost no one is willing to face what we're really experiencing; a human caused extinction event. So far, it's not working out well for all other species. We'll have to wait to see how this works out for us.

Agreed. Which takes me back to PoZ's original question...

Those sugar cane fiber dishes I mentioned above are made from waste products of the sugar industry that are usually burned. Instead of burning sugar cane fiber, it gets turned into compostable dishes instead.

I don't know how much energy and water is required to turn waste fiber into dishes and ship them to wherever, but to my simple way of seeing things, not burning stuff is usually better than burning stuff. Not cutting down trees to make paper plates is probably better than cutting down trees to make paper plates. And compostable waste (even if it's dumped in landfills) is going to be better than plastic waste.

[santafe2]

Re: Sustainability Question

Agreed. Which takes me back to PoZ's original question...

Those sugar cane fiber dishes I mentioned above are made from waste products of the sugar industry that are usually burned. Instead of burning sugar cane fiber, it gets turned into compostable dishes instead.

I don't know how much energy and water is required to turn waste fiber into dishes and ship them to wherever, but to my simple way of seeing things, not burning stuff is usually better than burning stuff. Not cutting down trees to make paper plates is probably better than cutting down trees to make paper plates. And compostable waste (even if it's dumped in landfills) is going to be better than plastic waste.

Good points shiny!. The solution does not make our situation worse. Like recycling however it's a deceit to put forward an idea like this as if it will make any difference in our situation. Landfills may fill more slowly, nothing else will change. It's green washing. Our trajectory remains the same. We need to plan to humanely decrease our population, 180 our consumer based society and hope we're not already too late. I find it horribly depressing that I don't think any of that will happen until well after it's too late for most folks.

[shiny!]

Re: Sustainability Question

Good points shiny!. The solution does not make our situation worse. Like recycling however it's a deceit to put forward an idea like this as if it will make any difference in our situation. Landfills may fill more slowly, nothing else will change. It's green washing. Our trajectory remains the same. We need to plan to humanely decrease our population, 180 our consumer based society and hope we're not already too late. I find it horribly depressing that I don't think any of that will happen until well after it's too late for most folks.

Zika might take care of that, although not humanely.