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A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

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  • A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

    Beggar Thy Neighbor

    For the author, creating a just society means alleviating poverty and improving lives, not redistributing wealth to make people equal.



    By DANIEL SHUCHMAN


    The fixation on equality, as a moral ideal in and of itself, is critically flawed, according to the professor. It holds that justice is determined by one person’s position relative to another, not his absolute well-being. Therefore the logic of egalitarianism can lead to perverse outcomes, he argues. Most egregiously, income inequality could be eliminated very effectively “by making everyone equally poor.” And while the lowest economic stratum of society is always associated with abject poverty, this need not be the case. Mr. Frankfurt imagines instances where those “who are doing considerably worse than others may nonetheless be doing rather well.” This possibility—as with contemporary America’s wide inequalities among relatively prosperous people—undermines the coherence of a philosophy mandating equality.

    Mr. Frankfurt acknowledges that “among morally conscientious individuals, appeals in behalf of equality often have very considerable emotional or rhetorical power.” The motivations for pursuing equality may be well-meaning but they are profoundly misguided and contribute to “the moral disorientation and shallowness of our time.”


    The idea that equality in itself is a paramount goal, Mr. Frankfurt argues, alienates people from their own characters and life aspirations. The amount of wealth possessed by others does not bear on “what is needed for the kind of life a person would most sensibly and appropriately seek for himself.” The incessant egalitarian comparison of one against another subordinates each individual’s goals to “those that are imposed on them by the conditions in which others happen to live.” Thus, individuals are led to apply an arbitrary relative standard that does not “respect” their authentic selves.

    If his literalist critique of egalitarianism is often compelling, Mr. Frankfurt’s own philosophy has more in common with such thinking than is first apparent. For Mr. Frankfurt, the imperative of justice is to alleviate poverty and improve lives, not to make people equal. He does not, however, think that it is morally adequate merely to provide people with a safety net. Instead, he argues for an ideal of “sufficiency.”

    By sufficiency Mr. Frankfurt means enough economic resources for every individual to be reasonably satisfied with his circumstances, assuming that the individual’s satisfaction need not be disturbed by others having more. While more money might be welcome, it would not “alter his attitude toward his life, or the degree of his contentment with it.” The achievement of economic and personal contentment by everyone is Mr. Frankfurt’s priority. In fact, his principle of sufficiency is so ambitious it demands that lack of money should never be the cause of anything “distressing or unsatisfying” in anyone’s life.

    What’s the harm of such a desirable, if unrealistic goal? The author declares that inequality is “morally disturbing” only when his standard of sufficiency is not achieved. His just society would, in effect, mandate a universal entitlement to a lifestyle that has been attained only by a minuscule fraction of humans in all history. Mr. Frankfurt recognizes such reasoning may bring us full circle: “The most feasible approach” to universal sufficiency may well be policies that, in practice, differ little from those advocated in the “pursuit of equality.”

    In passing, the author notes another argument against egalitarianism, the “dangerous conflict between equality and liberty.” He is referring to the notion that leaving people free to choose their work and what goods and services they consume will always lead to an unequal distribution of income. To impose any preconceived economic distribution will, as the philosopher Robert Nozick argued, involves “continuous interference in people’s lives.” Like egalitarianism, Mr. Frankfurt’s ideal of “sufficiency” would hold property rights and economic liberty hostage to his utopian vision.

    Such schemes, Nozick argued, see economic assets as having arrived on earth fully formed, like “manna from heaven,” with no consideration of their human origin. Mr. Frankfurt also presumes that one person’s wealth must be the reason others don’t have a “sufficient” amount to be blissfully carefree; he condemns the “excessively affluent” who have “extracted” too much from the nation. This leaves a would-be philosopher-king the task of divvying up loot as he chooses.

    On the surface, “On Inequality” is a provocative challenge to a prevailing orthodoxy. But as the author’s earlier book showed, appearances can deceive. When Thomas Piketty, in “Capital in the Twenty-First Century,” says that most wealth is rooted in theft or is arbitrary, or when Mr. Frankfurt’s former Princeton colleague Paul Krugman says the “rich” are “undeserving,” they are not (just) making the case for equality. By arguing that wealth accumulation is inherently unjust, they lay a moral groundwork for confiscation of property. Similarly, Mr. Frankfurt accuses the affluent of “gluttony”—a sentiment about which there appears to be unanimity in that temple of tenured sufficiency, the Princeton faculty club. The author claims to be motivated by respect for personal autonomy and fulfillment. By ignoring economic liberty, he reveals he is not.

    WSJ



    Last edited by vt; October 09, 2015, 11:33 PM.

  • #2
    Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

    It's funny, VT. The Wall Street Journal spent so long telling me that liberals are always wrong...especially since Rupert Murdoch bought it up 8 years ago...that now they're telling me they found one liberal out of 150 million or so in the US that thinks inequality's a great thing, and I should somehow care?

    What if this is another one of the liberals who's wrong about everything like all the others?

    The shameless self-interest and ultra-orthodox right-wing slant of the news passing through the editorial board at the WSJ gets funnier to me each passing year.

    I still cherish my copy of the last pre-Murdoch journal.

    It was still a rag preaching to the pinstriped.

    But at least it wasn't Goebbels-level nonsense.

    I guess according to this article, I ought to liquidate the retirement fund to build a golden idol of old Rupert in my backyard and worship him and his glorious wealth day and night, and pray that some of it might trickle-down to me, so help me Mammon!

    After all, insane wealth inequality would never result in Australian one billionaire buying up a huge chunk of all forms of media in all English-speaking countries and turning them into a self-serving right-wing propaganda machine that gets so out of control it bugs the phones of everyone from Queens down to peasants, right?

    Billionaires, some of them foreign, bought up all our media. Now they're buying up all our elections. Nothing to worry about here...right?

    After all, it's just a couple good 'ol boys buying elections and the media.

    It's not as if there's ever been a super wealthy trust fund kid who used his spectacular wealth to promote extremist ideology or go on a violent rampage, has there?



    Oh. Wait. Those guys...

    Crap. If that guy was poor, he'd probably be another flash in a pan instead of a notorious historical figure.

    Maybe Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal might be lying to us...although I can't imagine why.

    But it seems like maybe, just maybe, inequality might be something to worry about after all...
    Last edited by dcarrigg; October 10, 2015, 04:24 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

      In all due respect DC, I feel you are reading the review through a prism of semantics. The writer clearly states he favors a standard of living for the poor that is reasonable and makes sure basic necessities are fully covered. He's not looking at sending them to the poor house.

      Are you in favor of redistribution? Do we confiscate the wealth of anyone we consider wealthy? What happens we run out of the money we've taken from the rich?
      Do we start to confiscate the middle class savings next? How is wealth created? If someone is wealthy, did he or she steal it? should they confiscate what you have and give it to the less well off? Are there some who are rich who deserve to be because they have produced thousands of jobs and paid lots of taxes? Why hasn't a liberal administration put the bankers responsible for the AFC in jail? Why are these liberal politicians taking hundreds of thousands of campaign donations from Wall Street, the Bankers, Insurance and Real Estate lobbies?

      I am very upset that the middle class has shrunk and that the ranks of the poor have grown. As far as the rich stealing elections I have strongly supported taking ALL money out of politics. All elections should be publicly financed with no corporate, union, or private contributions.

      You keep complaining about a right wing media, when there is BOTH a right wing and a left wing media. Both are thriving and feeding the radicals on both ends.

      Just how would you end inequality? And how do we grow the middle class?

      I am not rich and not dirt poor, but my parents were raised poor. I still have family that is barely making it. The rest of us have reached sufficiency, but want the ability to improve some more. Clearly there are a few rich that may have gotten there by illegal means; they need to be exposed and pay for illegal activities. The inequality crowd seems to demonize any one who is better off than most. Do you wish us all equally poor?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

        Originally posted by vt View Post
        You keep complaining about a right wing media, when there is BOTH a right wing and a left wing media. Both are thriving and feeding the radicals on both ends.
        When they control who gets nominated voting no longer matters.

        There is always someone trying to justify using the states monopoly on force to give the fruits of a productive persons labor to another. These arguments always remind me of the grasshopper and the ant. Although, the more the takes the more ants become grasshoppers.

        We had a cat lady in our neighborhood when I was young. I don't remember her real name, but we all called her that after she started taking in strays. After a year or so there were 40 or 50 of them hanging around. The numbers grew and eventually she couldn't take care of them anymore, and animal control had to destroy most of them. She went kinda crazy after that, well crazier than normal.

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        • #5
          Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

          VT, I don't think you understood the thrust of my post.

          I was trying to get you to understand the real fear about inequality.

          It's not the minimum standard of living for the poor.

          It's the incredible, out-sized, proportional power of the ultra-wealthy.

          When one family can have the GDP of Poland, it doesn't take but one crazy in the family (Bin Ladens) to cause a 9/11. That actually happened.

          When one family can put nearly every retail outlet in the country under and force everyone to shop at the Soviet Store, the only game in town where every store is the same, quality is minimum, everything is shoddy, they sell everything, and you take what they give you (Walmart), then maybe there's a problem. Hard to start a small retail biz and compete with wally world (Soviet Retail Outlet #712).

          When one family can own 20% of the media in all the English-speaking world (Murdoch), then that's a problem.

          When one family can donate 25% of all the money spent on a national election (Kochs), and 50% of all the money for one of 2 major political parties (Republican), then that's a problem. Don't get caught up on it. Soros is in this game too on the other side. In fact, we can name the string-pullers. That's not good. It's bad for democracy. This shouldn't be for sale.

          It's not just the standard of living of the poor or middle class.

          It's giving too much concentrated power to a very small number of people.

          That's how you end up with dead republics.

          Crassus teams up with Caesar.

          The money man buys the army, the General marches it to the capital.

          It's a story that has played out over and over again south of the border in Latin America.

          And your solution seems to just be to ignore Escobar, or, better yet, to give him a tax break.

          But keep in mind, I'm no Scarface here.

          It's not sour grapes.

          It's not jealousy.

          It's fear of concentrated power. The same fear the founders had. The same reason they took the richest guy during the revolution (Morris) and threw him in jail.

          I honestly don't think the Republic can survive its first set of trillionaires.

          When 400 families have more wealth than 250 million, it's only a matter of time before 250 million end up on bended knee before the 400.

          Same thing happened in the Maggio Consiglio in the Venitian Republic.

          Too much history. Too many times the Republic falls to Oligarchy and military dictatorship because of greed and concentrated power.

          And here we sit, with half the population cheering on Gordon Gecko and reading their Ayn Rand loudly chanting, "Greed is Good! Greed is Good!"

          Make no mistake, VT:

          Money is power. It's an easy way to measure it.

          A guy with $2 million in the bank and a nice beach house probably can't hire enough people to pull off anything more than a couple of murders.

          But a guy with $2 billion in the bank can take over a small country or destroy a city or crash a currency (Baht anyone?).

          A guy with $200 billion in the bank can do far, far worse.

          And the poorer the poor and middle class are in relation to that $200 billion, the easier they are to buy off, and the more of them you can buy. That's the real danger of inequality.

          So keep worrying about confiscation. I'm more worried about the next billionaire trust funder who's going to pull a 9/11. After all, and don't forget, there are 1,500 of them out there, and only 400 are American, and many of those 400 probably don't give a crap about America at all.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

            Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post
            It's giving too much concentrated power to a very small number of people.

            That's how you end up with dead republics.
            I misunderstood you as well. Apologies.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

              DC, my solution is not to ignore the problem. Please don't try to paint me as a raving reactionary. And I am not painting you as a leftist. You make very good contributions to the forum.

              My call for public financing of elections goes a long way to start reduce power with money.

              What about the move by Buffett and Gates to give most of it away? 137 billionairees from 137 countries have joined these efforts. This is a start at least.

              http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/02/news...buffett-gates/

              Money given away in a well planned way to help raise up the poor is a much better way than government programs that are fraught with inefficiencies and corrupt. Yes some are efficient and most aren't corrupt. And a good number of charities are inefficient, with a small number corrupt. There are watchdog groups over charities that publicize the crooks. Most foundations set up by the rich work very well. look like the beginnings

              Speaking of concentration of power what about the nuclear agreement with IRAN and TPP engineered without approval of the Senate? Is this not a dangerous concentration of power?

              What about this fact of the baby boomers? too much concentration of power or just the fact that a lifetime of debt pay down and compounding of savings adds up? Some of that large disposable income is held by government workers with generous pensions and social security.

              http://www.mediapost.com/publication...osable-in.html


              Older Americans also have most of the wealth:

              " Younger adults have all the money."Fact:

              The 55+ age group controls more than three-fourths of America’s wealth. (ICSC)"


              DC, where did you pull this info from?


              "When 400 families have more wealth than 250 million, it's only a matter of time before 250 million end up on bended knee before the 400."

              You are way off. This is the fact:


              As Bob Lord writes in Other Words, “The net worth of just 400 billionaires, a group that could fit into a high school gym, is on par with the collective wealth of more than 14 million African- American households. Both groups possess some $2 trillion, about three percent of our national net worth of $77 trillion.” - See more at: http://inequality.org/wealth-400-bil....IIWGaxQg.dpuf From inequality.org


              This is not a sound bite problem, as the left tries to make it. Yes we have to get better. But we need to work with the rich, and above all find a way through public- partnerships, as EJ has called for, to create dozens of new industries and millions of new jobs.
              Last edited by vt; October 11, 2015, 04:53 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

                Originally posted by vt View Post
                What about the move by Buffett and Gates to give most of it away? 137 billionairees from 137 countries have joined these efforts. This is a start at least.
                It's interesting that you bring up the Giving Pledge. I've been thinking about this recently and find it suspicious that all of the money is going to be given to an organization. Who is going to be running the organization and how will the money be spent? If you give me control over a vast quantity of wealth, I can have a net worth of zero and still do as much damage as dynastic wealth. I would very much prefer that these billionaires dispose of their wealth as Andrew Carnegie did: building of infrastructure and clearly stated expenditures. No perpetual foundations who seek to meddle in all sort of things (with agendas that could change with each change in leadership of the foundations) such as privatizing education.

                Originally posted by vt View Post
                As Bob Lord writes in Other Words, “The net worth of just 400 billionaires, a group that could fit into a high school gym, is on par with the collective wealth of more than 14 million African- American households. Both groups possess some $2 trillion, about three percent of our national net worth of $77 trillion.” - See more at: http://inequality.org/wealth-400-bil....IIWGaxQg.dpuf From inequality.org
                Something isn't kosher with the above numbers. $2 trillion spread across 14 million households implies a per-household net worth of $142,857 for blacks in the U.S. I distinctly remember a PEW Research paper on household wealth across ethnicities in the U.S. and it was Asians and Caucasians were who at the highest levels: approximately $160,000 net worth per household. Blacks and Hispanics averaged less than $20,000 household net worth, as I recall, with Hispanics at roughly $20,000 and blacks under $10,000.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

                  Anyone who's read Cicero knows how this ends.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

                    Originally posted by radon View Post
                    Anyone who's read Cicero knows how this ends.
                    Yes, but the real trick is to work out how to understand and act on Cicero, without meeting Cicero's own end. ;)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

                      indeed!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

                        Maybe the figures are skewed by a number of very rich blacks:

                        http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/06/ric...americans.html

                        Here's the staff of inequality.org:

                        http://inequality.org/staff/ It sure doesn't look like the Kochs.


                        Why not get back to how to solve the problem?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

                          Since there have been so many suggestions put forth, I have a modest proposal.

                          ME FOR SPEAKER


                          In the interest of achieving true equality I hereby nominate myself for the position of Speaker of the House. Yes, you read it here first but equally on iTulip. A Speaker from the middle class who can represent that most exceptionally equal group as well as all other equal groups is needed to bring about true equality in Congress. You might ask, 'What are my qualifications,' or you might not, since that question is fraught with insinuations of racism, sexism, ableism, ageism, homophobia, trans-jenner-phobia, and at least 29 other disgustingly inappropriate and hurtfully offensive verbal assaults, including micro-aggressions, small aggressions, medium aggressions, large aggressions, and of course, the all too popular spicy aggressions.


                          I promise to bring equality to all people equally. Under my wise leadership I will immerse everyone under the great calming sea of equality until they partake of it's homogenizing impact. I urge you to join with us, and like a great stagnant meandering river we will overwhelm the banks of differentism and fill the floodplain of our troubled land with deep, dark pools of fertile, fragrant equalizing sediment, or something equally like it. Again I urge you, join with us, and do not be like those obdurate different ones who will force us to equalize them, for the good of all, of course.


                          As my first official act I promise to propose and advocate for a resolution for a scholarly appraisal of all current literature on politically and culturally induced phagophobia (a wide range of eating disorders brought about by inequality in signage in our nation's grocery stores and other food venues) leading to the call for an examination examining the feasibility for the establishment of a committee examining the social necessity of a widely (but not differently bodied (previously known by the insulting pejorative 'overweight' (which itself was a half-hearted attempt to ameliorate the hate speech attack word, 'fat.'))) bi-partisan committee to study and advocate for comestible description justice for all Americans, including all minority workers, undocumented workers, under-documented workers, fast food workers, and even half fast workers. The crippling label inequality in our nation's grocery stores, super centers, warehouse clubs and all other food venues has endured for far too long. It is long past time for this blight on the unseemly and smelly underbelly of American produce to be trimmed back to the equality of insignificance, and preferably uprooted from our national backyard completely.

                          By now you may be asking yourself, 'What in the **** is he talking about,' which proves my suitability for the position of Speaker of the House, since the greatest attribute needed is the one needed to fertilize the imaginations of our diverse (but completely equal and totally culturally relevant groups both to each other and to the archipelago they subsist in amidst an overflowing sea of equality) populations so that an over-whelmingly fruitful harvest of verbosity may be brought forth. But I have other important and needful attributes which I will list below. (Except for the ones which may offend someone or their dog, or other differently specied entities.)

                          1.) I have no embarrassing scandals in my past. In fact, I have almost no past at all. Indeed, it is almost as if I had been born yesterday. Very importantly, I have no private servers. Actually, I must admit that we have never had the means to hire private servers, or even public ones, but you can honestly believe me on this; we preferred to dish out our food without need of a stranger's assistance, but of course, there's absolutely nothing wrong with strangers; they're as equal as anyone else, and some of my best friends used to be strangers.

                          2.) My family members are also without any scent of disrepute, or even any discernible importance, except for perhaps two uncles who are nevertheless now differently embodied. That is, they passed on to their reward several decades ago, before the blessing of the dispensation of the almost all knowing NSA was bestowed upon our fair (and soon to be equal) land.

                          3.) I can unequivocally state with firm but fair equality that I am the most transparent person you have ever not seen in this or any other nation, world, dimension, or possible existence.

                          4.) As for my many other advantageous but still remarkably equal attributes, you will just have to vote for me to learn what they are. Trust me for the sake of the children. Also, you should know that from a young age, I have also been a great admirer of the many exceedingly great endowments of women.

                          As for my proposed insightful, foresightful, and landmark proposal for a resolution to accomplish the sacred will of the people, it is simply (because the greatest, most historically important, and most heroic ideas are, after all, after all the complexity is stripped away, really the simplest) this: our grocery store shelves must be cleansed of their legacy of unfruitful slurs, aging canned stereotypes, and traditionalized (and don't forget caramelized and sugar-coated) bias and prejudice long past their expiration date.


                          But don't take my word for the existence of this national tragedy, even though you know that you should, and I know that one day soon you will. Go to the grocery store of your choice and look around. Now that I have opened your eyes, before you can say, 'The equality of all people everywhere is a necessary but insufficient condition for the triumph of an equalized society,' you will see the terrible inequality of American descriptive comestible signage. 'Extra Virgin Olive Oil;' need I say more; but I will: Black-eyed Peas, White Flour (oh, the horror,) Red Peppers, Spanish Rice, Black Beans, Kosher Salt, Thai Sauce, Brown Sugar, and the list goes on and on. We must purge ourselves of these hateful reminders of a time of ignorance when Americans sought to be better, rather than enjoying the relaxation of joining in the equality of all. It will not be easy, we have been lax too long, but by working equally together we can Change, we can move Forward, we can Hope to remove the stain of differentism from our national laundry.


                          One day in the far future the soothing peace of total and complete equality will descend upon a Heat-Death en-nobled Universe enjoying the long delayed and completely ripened fruit of Entropy. For now, I pledge myself to be the most equal among you, so that you can enjoy the best equality possible.
                          Last edited by photon555; October 12, 2015, 01:28 AM. Reason: some are born to edit, some have editing cast upon them, etc.
                          "I love a dog, he does nothing for political reasons." --Will Rogers

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                          • #14
                            Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

                            Originally posted by radon View Post
                            Anyone who's read Cicero knows how this ends.
                            Anyone who's read "Babbit" knows discussions like these are just lost on some folks.
                            Last edited by Woodsman; October 12, 2015, 06:10 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A Liberal Says Not To Worry About Inequality

                              Originally posted by Woodsman View Post
                              Anyone who's read "Babbit" knows discussions like these are just lost on some folks.
                              Woodsman, would you please post a link or info concerning the article associated with that photo; I would like to take a look at it. Hope you have a nice day.
                              "I love a dog, he does nothing for political reasons." --Will Rogers

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