I, Pencil, The Movie

[vt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYO3...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N08Kkjq9gA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw1kODe7eDU

[don]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

Knock, knock

Who's there?

A broken pencil

A broken pencil who?

Never mind, there's no point . . . .

[vt]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

Greece is one who broke the pencil instead of using it. Socialism takes and does not create.

[astonas]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

Greece is one who broke the pencil instead of using it. Socialism takes and does not create.

Really? We're going to blame "socialism" for Greece, instead of parasitic international banking practices combined with local corruption?

How is THAT justified?

Scandinavian nations are arguably far more socialist than Greece, and are doing vastly better. Depending on the metric, they're even doing far better than the "free market" US.

That dog don't hunt.

[vt]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

Greece gave lifetime pensions to some as early as 45 and 50 years old. Daughters of deceased army officers could receive lifetime pensions if they remained unmarried.

In additional there was massive tax evasion, and well as excessive corruption. It part of the culture of a good portion of the population.

A you want to blame it all on bankers?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...bt-crisis-jobs

[don]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

Greece gave lifetime pensions

Ignoring the rest of this claptrap, using "lifetime pensions" as an indictment comes straight from somebody's playbook.

"I propose pensions should have a termination date, preferably when the recipient is old and enfeebled enough to offer no resistance. At that point, cut him loose . . . "

It must be a mistake

[vt]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

Typical of the left; choosing a few words from a few sentences out of context. Try offering solutions instead of trying to twist words for political effect.

Lifetime pensions are wonderful for retired employees. I cover my full time employees with a pension, which very few employers do these days.

The problem as I stated, but you slanted, is that a country cannot afford pensions for a 50 year old that may live until 90 or a daughter of a deceased soldier than could collect for 60 years.

It's not mathematically possible.

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entr...les_take_shape

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/07/teams...0-of-cuts.html

[don]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

I cover my full time employees with a pension

Needed clarification:

Are your employees' pension benefits part of their negotiated payment as workers?

Do they contribute to their pensions in their paychecks?

What are the parameters for meeting your self-acknowledged generous pension provisions?

Years worked, etc. to be invested.

Or do you see this as a paternal bequest on your behalf?

[vt]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

100% of pension contribution and 100% of health care premium paid by me. No negotiation needed.


I think vesting is three years. After that 100%.



And I do not make $1 million a year. Far, far from it.


Nothing paternal. Great employees are difficult to find.

[Woodsman]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

...it's not mathematically possible.

Sure, math is hard.

But a trillion dollar bank bailout voted in over a long weekend, now that's easy.

Four trillion for the adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan, no problemo General. Didn't you know? "Fiscal conservatives" is a punchline. Like "weapons of mass destruction."

And while we're at it, add in another 2-3 trillion on top of that to care of wounded and maimed veterans Bush and Cheney sent to their ruin. Of course, we don't talk much about that; never mentioned it once in the run up to the "cakewalk."

How about a trillion dollar gift to the insurance industry instead the single payer everybody expected? Well now, we'll just we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what it is. Surprise, it's 1.2 trillion (projected)!

It's about priorities, vt - what is important to you and your most important constituencies. It's about mobilizing political power - who gets what.

What it's not about; what it's never been about, is cost. See that's what they mean by exorbitant privilege and that's what we're in the process of pissing away.

And you're pissing in the wind, vt. That "argument" ran out of steam two wars ago.

[vt]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

Seems like you are $5.2 trillion over budget, and I'm worried your memory is fading.

I've said countless times before I opposed the Iraq war. Of course I've posted at least twice a long list of key Democrats (including Hillary, and Kerry) who wanted us to go in and depose Saddam. But there goes your memory again

Afghanistan?? We definitely should have gone in but only to get Bin Laden. We almost had him at Tora Bora. Of course we almost had him in 1998 but your team of thieving archives fingers Sandy Berger and Billy Clinton decided to let him go. Let's see that's 3 Trillion saved there

Trillion dollar bank bailout. Yeah that's Bushes fault, but it's also Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat controlled Congress. Let's see the Democrats asked, no DEMANDED, that the banksters make loans to people who had no way to pay them back. The Democrats support the real estate industry (the RE in FIRE; hey that's 50%!) lobby but demonize public companies that provide real jobs. Not one million too many real estate agents encouraging people to trade houses like baseball cards. Come to think of it Bush and McCain wanted to have less of this nutty lending. I mean who came up with the 125% loan on a house. Where were the regulators?

I fully agree that probably most of the banksters who made these loans with at least some of the applicants lying through their teeth (Liar loans), likely leaned GOP.

In fact we may have never had the American Financial Crisis if Billy Clinton, Greenspan, and Goldman Bobby Rubin (hey that's bipartisan!) had not repealed Glass-Steagall.

That's at least $1 trillion saved, but potentially $20 trillion in ultimate global damage. If only Billy, Bobby, and Alan had listened to Brooksley Born, who clearly saw the fallacy in the peacocks plans. But of course the Democrat war on women's intuition prevented that.

You might want to review Lextrode's post on the Frontline report, which he's put up for viewing 25 times.

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act likely will cost $1.2 trillion. Of course some of the ideas put up on the other side of the aisle would have been far less expensive and much more efficient. Do you really feel good to now have pregnancy coverage?!? This Rosemary's Baby legislation is liable to leave us less healthier.

Single Payer That's not gonna cost a trillion? Ya think it's free?? The bureaucrats do not work for peanuts with multiple excess worker salaries and Cadillac benefits.

Math? I just saved $25.2 Trillion vs. your $5.2 Trillion fantasy.


P.S. The Woody and Donny scene:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...assidy+youtube

Answer: Lextrode and VT!

P.P.S. All in good fun. Hey we all want to help the middle class and poor. We just choose different ways to get there. With the brainpower we have maybe we can create something that works.

[Woodsman]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

Seems like you are $5.2 trillion over budget, and I'm worried your memory is fading...

By all means, feel free to project onto "woodsman" all the bugaboos your limited imagination might conjure.

The only Democrats I've ever supported were Bobby Kennedy and Jimmy Carter and that's who I've written-in every four years until I quit voting altogether. Of course idiot right-wing hammer swingers still believe RFK and Jimmah were left-liberals.

I don't know what curious psychological mechanism enables you to call yourself “Independent” while voting for conservatives and uncritically supporting right wing ideals. And except for the smelly brain droppings you leave behind here, I could care less.

But stand by for a newsflash. You're not fooling anyone.

You’re not an “Independent” at all, you’re a conservative who seems ashamed and fearful to admit it. And you folks should be ashamed. We've done it your way for 40+ years and look where it brought us. Save for a few months here and there, the right and their ideas have had both hands on the tiller for decades.

Now that it's clear to everyone that the right steered the ship of state into the reef, it's entirely understandable that people like you would want to get some distance from your past. I totally get it.

But that my friend is a different kettle of fish than the equally repugnant truth about the Democratic Party and their capitulation to the right-wing. I know that confuses you because it won't fit into your tidy little concept of American politics. All I can say is do your best and try and keep up.

But at least in that respect, I am as much opposed to Democrats as you seem to be.

You Aren’t Actually An Independent

By ROD DREHER • August 22, 2012, 12:49 PM

Shankar Vedantam says lots of people like to believe they are politically independent, but it’s not true, according to research. Most people who identify as “independent” will tend to pretty uniformly favor one party over the other. Researchers have developed a test to suss out which party that is among self-identified independents. Take it here.

I registered to vote as an Independent, but there’s no doubt in my mind that I generically favor Republicans. I generally dissent from the foreign policy of the GOP, and generally dissent from its economic views, but in the end, I am more likely to vote for a generic Republican than for a generic Democratic, because social and cultural issues are the most important ones to me — and on these, the Democratic Party is alien territory. And yet, I don’t wish to be a Republican, not because I fear partisanship cooties, but because I genuinely dislike the Republican Party (and the Democratic Party, for what it’s worth).

An independent conservative, then? But how independent is one when he or she can be counted on to vote regularly for one side over the other? Is “independence” a distinction without a difference?

Let me ask the room: If you consider yourself a political independent, when is the last time you voted for someone who is of the party you usually don’t support? Why did you do it?

http://www.theamericanconservative.c...n-independent/

[vt]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

You have forgotten that I did state I voted for McGovern over Nixon (about the time you said you were working for him). I did support Robert Kennedy.

You seem to have forgotten your praise for me when I proposed an end to campaign donations. All campaigns to be publicly financed.

You forget that I have been a vocal supporter of the concept of an independent party, that is fiscally conservative and socially moderate.

I have continually called for putting Wall Street and Banksters in jail.

I have stands that are decidedly liberal and some that tend conservative, as I believe most Americans share.

You have no idea who I vote for or if I vote.

It seems like you forget a lot. Or maybe your desire to score political points clouds your memory.

[Woodsman]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

You have forgotten...

I haven't forgotten, I just don't care enough to make the effort.

And since you make up the narrative as you go along, I hardly see the point. For instance, I never identified or claimed an association with any administration. You pulled that one out of your fevered wingnut imagination. What a rich fantasy life you must have.

[shiny!]

Re: I, Pencil, The Movie

here we go again...