Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Has the Donald Crossed the Line?

...this is how elites shape public perceptions, by sheer volume and repetition, by deluging the masses with the same storyline over and over again however inconsistent, inane or mendacious it may be...

+1

[vt]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

Actually Carly's business credentials have been falsified by the DNC. Here are the facts:


"After Fiorina announced her Presidential candidacy and started to get traction for her competence in addressing the issues, NBC Meet the Press host Chuck Todd asked Fiorina on the show in May. When Todd aggressively attack her as a slash and burn executive that was fired for the way she treated people. Fiorina calmly responded:

“What people fail to comment on is the fact we doubled the size of the company, took the growth rate from 2 percent to 9 percent,” she said. “We tripled the rate of innovation to 11 patents a day and went from lagging behind to leading in every product category. We grew jobs here in the U.S. and all over the world. You can’t just leave those facts out — they are as vital to the record as the fact that yes, indeed, I had to make tough calls during tough times. Tough times that many technology companies didn’t survive at all.” The artful answer left Todd almost speechless."

The negative on Carly, according to the liberal line. is that she laid off a bunch of employees at HP. Well since she assumed the job in July, 1999 her timing was not auspicious. The fact that HP survived and prospered through this is an accomplishment. Her record after the crash destroys this argument.

[Woodsman]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

Actually Carly's business credentials have been falsified by the DNC.

She's the one doing the falsifying. But this isn't about her record. It's about sinking Trump. Only they sent a patrol boat up against a dreadnough. Now that's funny.

But what's funnier is watching the GOP squirm as The Donald grabs them by the short hairs. They're so clueless, they're actually making a go at feminist identity politics with Megyn Kelly as the intellectual standard bearer no less.

Fiorina's business experience is and will be forever measured by her tenure as HP CEO - one universally considered a disaster. She all but single-handedly destroyed a business that for 50 years maintaned a solid record of growth its competitors envied. She oversaw a crash in the share price, failed IPOs, not to mention 30,000+ layoffs and the destruction of a reputation that took decades to build. Only in politics could a record like that be spun as success.

The WaPo ran a little piece on this:

Every politician tries to put a gloss on their record, but Fiorina’s claims about her business success are questionable in almost every respect. Her statements either lack significant context or resulted from a creative cherry-picking of the facts. She earns Three Pinocchios.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...siness-record/

Sorry GOP, but your voters love Trump and you'll have to reconcile yourself to it. And as consequence, the rest of us will have to reconcile ourselves with the third HillBill administration:

If Trump is your nominee, then HillBill wins.
If Trump is not your nominee, large parts of your base stays home in protest and HillBill wins.
If Trump runs as an independent, he peels off GOP voters and HillBill wins in much the same manner they won the first time.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch folks.

[don]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

“Our pundits and experts, at least those with prominent public platforms, are courtiers. We are captivated by the hollow stagecraft of political theater as we are ruthlessly stripped of power. It is smoke and mirrors, tricks and con games, and the purpose behind it is deception.”

Chris Hedges, Empire of Illusion

particularly apt for us as we're re-watching I, Claudius (1976)

[Woodsman]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

...we're re-watching I, Claudius (1976)

"Caw caw Claudius? Emperor of Rome? Haw haw haw!"

[vt]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

I don't give a rat's ass about Trump. He's the elite and on an ego trip. He's right about the corrupt parties, and doing a public service.

We do agree that both parties are a travesty.

You're totally wrong about Carly. Every technology company got destroyed between early 2000 and October, 2002. But between late 2002 and the end of 2005 Hewlett Packard stock recovered a far greater percentage than Cisco and Oracle. The growth numbers she cited are correct.

Carly did challenge the culture at HP. Women are often fighting an old boy network at the top.

Ignore the press on the left and the right; they are no longer objective on political matters

[jk]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

as i read the mike whitney piece, he is saying that "orders" went out BEFORE the debate to get trump because of something he said DURING the debate. we need to find out who issued those orders, since they clearly have a time machine.

also, it's head-shakingly ridiculous to say that trump revealed the "secret" that politicians pay attention to people who give them money. the only shocking thing was that he said it out loud, on tv, and that he spoke as someone experienced in doing the giving, as opposed to being a recipient. i, and i am sure many others, loved that moment of true "reality television."

[wayiwalk]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

It was a great moment, and a great headline (viral video?) grabbing moment. Great entertainment, too. And it summarizes the gist of what has given Trump traction in the first place. The willingness to speak loud and truthful about SOME of the injustices to the public that the rest of the politicians (maybe Bernie Sanders excepted) fail to address.

Too bad we should be getting more from our pols than headline grabbing attempts at stand up comedy....Jackie Mason was right on that critique of debates and pols in general.

You could have gone from Trumps "buy politicians" bit right into the Carlin, "why I don't vote anymore", they felt like they were right out of the same monologue, except one of them was given by a guy that is a billionare.

[lektrode]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

....If Trump is your nominee, then HillBill wins.
If Trump is not your nominee, large parts of your base stays home in protest and HillBill wins.
If Trump runs as an independent, he peels off GOP voters and HillBill wins in much the same manner they won the first time.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch folks.

esp these 'folks' (aka: the 'contributors' to the hill'n'bill foundation = 'charitable' ??? riiiight...)

Gold Holds Its Own As Media Stocks Collapse

• Gold is holding its own but that hasn’t stopped many gold bears from using this as an opportunity to disparage the yellow metal
• A recent Bloomberg article points out that the gold rout has cost China and Russia $5.4 billion
• An amount that would sound colossal were it not for the fact that U.S. media companies such as Disney and Viacom collectively lost over $60 billion for shareholders in as little as two days last week

hehehehehe!!!

dont spose its because the rest of the herd (mostly those who think 'fox isnt a real news outlet') has figgerd out just how bad the lamerstream media has been f__k'n The Rest of US = why the donald is 'leading' ?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

yeAGHH BAybee!!

hehehehehe...

[Chartsky]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

[SNIP]

Sorry GOP, but your voters love Trump and you'll have to reconcile yourself to it. And as consequence, the rest of us will have to reconcile ourselves with the third HillBill administration:

If Trump is your nominee, then HillBill wins.
If Trump is not your nominee, large parts of your base stays home in protest and HillBill wins.
If Trump runs as an independent, he peels off GOP voters and HillBill wins in much the same manner they won the first time.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch folks.

This is the conventional thinking -- a 3rd Party candidate (Libertarian oriented) would split the GOP and that's the ONLY way Hitlery can win since her permanent negatives are so high.

But something funny is happening, and I think it might gain speed: Mr. Trump is beginning to attract the all-important Independent voters.

Sure, he's raw and exactly the opposite of a professional politician. And that seems to be his appeal. Straight talk. NOT slickly packaged. NOT supported by a Billionaire -- he's his own Billionaire.

I think Mr. Trump has a chance to be the GOP nominee and, if so, he will crush Hitlery.

This is why Roger Ailes and Faux declared a truce. Trump was already doing serious damage to Faux but what if he gains more momentum and they were on the outside begging for him to forgive them (when, as I understand, he seldom forgives an insult).

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

http://www.gq.com/story/trump-suppor...-campaign-iowa

[Woodsman]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

This is the conventional thinking...

It's just this man's opinion; nothing more and worth as much.

But, no I don't believe HillBill needs a third-party to win or that The Donald can beat them or even get the nomination. If elected, I don't believe a Trump administration would be substantively different from the Cheney administration or Obama for that matter.

There are no "political outsiders" or "game changers." This club has strict membership requirements and the rules change for no one. It's not about the aspirations of any individual, but the perpetuation and aggrandizement of the club. Trump is not going to be President of the United States, never mind get the GOP nomination. The GOP would rather lose conventionally than win unconventionally. Because in this game, winning isn't everything. Keeping the game going is everything.

[vt]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

Woody,

I agree. Trump would be more of the same, just more entertaining with higher TV ratings.

[lektrode]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

Woody,

I agree. Trump would be more of the same, just more entertaining with higher TV ratings.

eye still think that the trumpster is a stalking horse for the hill'n'bill show - why?

methinks his empire might not be a solid as it appears (read: the fundamental solvency of any firm is inversely proportional to the opulence of the front office decor) and he might be setting up/lining up the lwr manhattan favor machine in advance of his need to 'go to the well' again

what better way to do it than to drive potential votes away from teamR (women, hispanics/immigrants etc already running away fast) ?

[Woodsman]

Re: Paglia Critiques The Republican Debate

eye still think that the trumpster is a stalking horse for the hill'n'bill show...

Totally plausible, but does it make any difference? Lek, every erg of energy we give these people is one less we have for ourselves.

Trump, for all his faults, made plain what everyone already knew:

When you give, they do whatever the hell you want them to do.”

“You’d better believe it,” Trump said. “If I ask them, if I need them, you know, most of the people on this stage I’ve given to, just so you understand, a lot of money.”

The only complaints came from two candidates who yelled that they had received no Trump money. As Trump continued to talk, he was interrupted by Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., complaining that Trump instead gave campaign contributions to Rubio’s Democratic opponent.

“I hope you will give to me,” said Gov. John Kasich of Ohio.

“Sounds good. Sounds good to me, governor,” said Trump.

Without missing a beat, the real estate tycoon continued: “I was a businessman. I give to everybody. When they call, I give. And you know what? When I need something from them, two years later, three years later, I call them, and they are there for me.” He added, “And that’s a broken system.”

Repeatedly asked what he got in return for his donations, Trump said: “With Hillary Clinton, I said be at my wedding and she came to my wedding. You know why? She didn’t have a choice because I gave. I gave to a foundation that, frankly, that foundation is supposed to do good.”

Donald Trump Says He Can Buy Politicians, None of His Rivals Disagree

Same for the peanut gallery. No one gives a crap. In a plutocratic democracy you vote with dollars. So how much you got to spare?

Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism...

A proposed policy change with low support among economically elite Americans (one-out-of-five in favour) is adopted only about 18% of the time, while a proposed change with high support (four-out-of-five in favor) is adopted about 45% of the time...

When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organised interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the US political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it...

Despite the seemingly strong empirical support in previous studies for theories of majoritarian democracy, our analyses suggest that majorities of the American public actually have little influence over the policies our government adopts. Americans do enjoy many features central to democratic governance, such as regular elections, freedom of speech and association, and a widespread (if still contested) franchise. But we believe that if policymaking is dominated by powerful business organizations and a small number of affluent Americans, then America’s claims to being a democratic society are seriously threatened....

Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
Martin Gilens (Princeton University) and Benjamin I. Page (Northwestern University)

In Trump-speak, "you're fired" American citizens. Consent of the government? Eff-U! Representative democracy? Yeah, I got it for ya; right over here in my @$$. Republican government? Up-yours, serf.

So, basically what this study is saying is that, quite honestly, your vote doesn’t count for shit, and although apparently we’re supposed to be under the assumption that lobbying groups speak for us, the people, and that the rich people who purchase our elected leaders have our best interests at heart, they do not. Big surprise.

The ‘Duh’ Report: Study says America is an Oligarchy, not a Democracy

And now we know why Jimmy felt so free to speak his mind.

Hey, they own the country. If that's the way they want to run it, what's a working stiff to do ('cept love it)? But I'm baffled why any serious person would ratify this make believe and let's pretend with their interest or participation.

Once again, this time with feeling.