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We need liquid fuels because you can't make an electric airplane

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  • We need liquid fuels because you can't make an electric airplane

    http://www.gizmag.com/elektra-one-solar-alps/38431/

    And major aircraft manufacturers are working on hybrid planes that use fuel only to generate electricity during flight beginning 2025...

  • #2
    Re: We need liquid fuels because you can't make an electric airplane

    Originally posted by mooncliff View Post
    http://www.gizmag.com/elektra-one-solar-alps/38431/

    And major aircraft manufacturers are working on hybrid planes that use fuel only to generate electricity during flight beginning 2025...
    Just surprised to see the date 2025; as I would have thought this would be much sooner considering the rapid developments in electric vehicles.

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    • #3
      Re: We need liquid fuels because you can't make an electric airplane

      Originally posted by mooncliff View Post
      http://www.gizmag.com/elektra-one-solar-alps/38431/

      And major aircraft manufacturers are working on hybrid planes that use fuel only to generate electricity during flight beginning 2025...


      Probably a LOT sooner than that.

      From Flying Magazine:

      Meet Airbus E-Fan


      By Stephen Pope / Published: Jul 15, 2015

      ...It's appearing increasingly likely that the next wave of disruptive innovation will come from Europe at the hands of Airbus Group, which has formed a subsidiary called *VoltAir SAS in France to build a family of plug-in and hybrid-electric light airplanes. The plan figures to play a key role not only in recalibrating how we look at light aviation but also in shaping the future direction of the world's second largest airplane manufacturer.

      VoltAir's immediate aim is to build a factory in the south of France and begin producing the *E-Fan line of small airplanes, beginning with a two-seat trainer called the E-Fan 2.0, powered entirely by batteries and electric motors and slated to reach the market in 2018. A follow-on, hybrid-electric four-seater called the E-Fan 4.0 targeted primarily at buyers in the United States will emerge soon after and is projected to go on sale in 2019.

      Different doesn't begin to explain the approach to designing and producing these airplanes. The shapes are all new; the electric motors are new; the ducted variable-pitch fan propellers are new. The engineers will take advantage of the latest carbon-*fiber design techniques with never before tested aerodynamic shapes. It's all made possible by the aesthetic freedom electric motors give to the engineering design team, since the motors can be placed just about anywhere on the airframe.

      Airbus' real aims with VoltAir and the E-Fan family of airplanes, however, are far more ambitious than merely producing electric airplanes for an admittedly limited general aviation market. The prolific maker of commercial airliners is instead laying the groundwork for a tomorrow that could include fleets of *futuristic-looking hybrid-electric airliners under the Airbus E-Thrust project. They'll be capable of whisking 100 or so passengers on short-haul flights of perhaps 1,000 miles. Designs for even bigger planes with farther reach are in the works. It's pretty staggering stuff.

      Before any of these ambitious goals can be realized, though, planners at Airbus know they first need to take the small steps that will incrementally bridge the technological gaps necessary to make a battery-powered hybrid-electric airliner feasible.

      Some of these steps are being undertaken already. VoltAir has formed a partnership with engineering conglomerate Siemens of Germany to produce the power systems for the small E-Fan battery-powered and hybrid-electric production models. If the companies are successful with this first stage, they envision expanding their cooperation to tackle the hybrid-electric drive systems for much larger airplanes, which could become a reality within the next couple of decades.

      Airbus Group is also enlisting *Daher, maker of the TBM 900 turboprop single, to produce the E-Fan 2.0 and 4.0 models at the new factory in Pau, France, near the Pyrenees Mountains on the border with Spain, construction of which is scheduled to start next year. Daher will also play a key role in marketing and selling the VoltAir models through its established dealer network.

      The big question at this point is whether the GA market will really want to buy and own electric airplanes. Nobody knows. Airbus' success will depend largely on the utility, performance and safety of electric airplanes, not to mention their price. Done right, E-Fan could be just the boost general aviation needs to succeed and thrive for many years to come...




      By Stephen Pope / Published: Jul 15, 2015

      Since the earliest days of powered flight, propulsion technology has mattered more than anything else in humankind's quest to break the bonds of earth and rise triumphantly into thin air.

      For the Wright Flyer it was a 180-pound, 12-horsepower gasoline piston engine built by Orville and Wilbur's trusty mechanic, Charles *Taylor. For the P-51D Mustang, the mighty Rolls-Royce Merlin V-12 did the honors. In the case of Concorde, four twin-spool afterburning Olympus 593 turbojets made supersonic commercial air travel a reality.

      It stands to reason, then, that before the profound shift to electric-powered flight can become an everyday reality, we'll first need a breakthrough in electric propulsion technology, transforming electric airplanes from mere aeronautical curiosities to practical means of long-range transportation.

      German engineering firm Siemens may have hit upon just such a technological innovation with a new high-output electric motor to power bigger airplanes, with maximum takeoff weights of 4,000 pounds.

      Weighing in at a little over 100 pounds and with an impressive power-to-weight ratio of 5-to-1, the latest electric aero motor from Siemens delivers a continuous output of 260 kilowatts (the gasoline-piston engine equivalent of about 350 hp), compared with just 60 kW for the electric motor tested in flight by Siemens, Airbus and Diamond Aircraft in an HK36 motorglider last year.

      To develop the new motor Siemens studied every component of previous motors and optimized each to their technological limits. New simulation techniques and lightweight construction, the company says, enabled the drive system to achieve its unparalleled performance of 5 kilowatts per kilogram. Comparable motors used in industrial applications deliver less than 1 kW per kilogram, while drive systems used in electric cars offer about 2 kW per kilogram.

      Also, because the new motor delivers its performance at a rotational speed of just 2,500 rpm, it can drive propellers directly without requiring energy-sapping reduction gears...




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      • #4
        Re: We need liquid fuels because you can't make an electric airplane

        Welcome to Larry Page’s Secret Flying-Car Factories

        June 9, 2016 — 3:00 AM MDT

        Three years ago, Silicon Valley developed a fleeting infatuation with a startup called Zee.Aero. The company had set up shop right next to Google’s headquarters in Mountain View, Calif., which was curious, because Google tightly controls most of the land in the area. Then a reporter spotted patent filings showing Zee.Aero was working on a small, all-electric plane that could take off and land vertically—a flying car...

        ...Zee.Aero now employs close to 150 people. Its operations have expanded to an airport hangar in Hollister, about a 70-minute drive south from Mountain View, where a pair of prototype aircraft takes regular test flights. The company also has a manufacturing facility on NASA’s Ames Research Center campus at the edge of Mountain View. Page has spent more than $100 million on Zee.Aero, say two of the people familiar with the company, and he’s not done yet. Last year a second Page-backed flying-car startup, Kitty Hawk, began operations and registered its headquarters to a two-story office building on the end of a tree-lined cul-de-sac about a half-mile away from Zee’s offices. Kitty Hawk’s staffers, sequestered from the Zee.Aero team, are working on a competing design. Its president, according to 2015 business filings, was Sebastian Thrun, th*e godfather of Google’s self-driving car program and the founder of research division Google X. Page and Google declined to speak about Zee.Aero or Kitty Hawk, as did Thrun...

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        • #5
          Re: We need liquid fuels because you can't make an electric airplane

          Thanks folks, I find this stuff fascinating.

          A few months ago I found this NASA paper discussing the larger commercial hybrid electric aircraft.

          http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...0130010780.pdf


          I have mixed feelings about it all.
          On the one hand, these ideas are WAY cool and I am delighted that some of our american tycoons are pursuing flying cars.
          As a baby boomer, I was told back in the 1960's there would be jet packs and flying cars and I would still love to have them.

          On the other hand, I have my doubts about how likely it is we will see one anytime soon, especially a vertical takeoff flying car.
          To me, the flying cars are a much different animal than the concepts for large hybrid electric commercial aircraft.

          The NASA paper is a good read for any aircraft nerd. It is a product of their ongoing research towards advanced commercial aircraft.
          It shows surprisingly good results for hybrid electric aircraft. They don't violate the laws of physics and they give some great advantages.
          Of course they require pretty dramatic breakthrough improvements in the heavy bits of electric drive systems.
          The generators, motors, and high power lines all need to be superconducting systems beyond currently available equipment.
          Superconductors of course imply the aircraft needs to also have a cryogenic refrigeration system on board.

          But overall, NASA shows concepts that are certainly plausible.
          The research seemed to be focused on more conventional future commercial aircraft that will be much more fuel efficient, much quieter, and lower polluting.
          When they modeled far-fetched hybrid electric concepts, they got surprisingly good results.

          To reach their performance goals they needed to increase the turbine speeds of the engines AND slow the fan speeds for propulsion at the same time.
          That means a huge, heavy, and highly stressed gearbox. That concept won't fly, quite literally.
          So they thought to look at disconnecting the fuel burning turbine unit from the propulsion fans and found tantalizing results.
          Not only did they get the basic performance improvements they were seeking, but they found secondary benefits from using several smaller fans embedded into the flying wing structure.
          All way cool and I am delighted such work is being done with small bit of my tax dollars.

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          • #6
            Re: We need liquid fuels because you can't make an electric airplane

            there are now superconductors at temps up to 138K, and i expect that will keep rising.

            otoh, i think of all the battery problems on boeing's 787 dreamliner, and that is simplicity itself compared to what's envisioned here.

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