America's Next Revolution (the fourth) -

[Woodsman]

Re: Doing work you should do yourself

Your time has passed and I will write your epitaph. So be nice, count your gold goins, say your prayers and deal with it. Until then, leave me the hell alone and save your toxic stew of pious hatred for Sunday.

[Raz]

Re: Doing work you should do yourself

Your time has passed and I will write your epitaph. So be nice, count your gold goins, say your prayers and deal with it. Until then, leave me the hell alone and save your toxic stew of pious hatred for Sunday.

You are the one who wouldn't "leave me alone" as we agreed many months ago. YOU posted to me! That's why I replied - I didn't initiate a post to you! http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...613#post297613

You'll write my epitaph? "Pious hatred"? You can't distinguish concern from contempt, agape from hate, and you are one bitter, perverse, mendacious man.

[Polish_Silver]

everyone is selective

Quoted Leviticus. Typical evangelical claptrap, this selective reading of the Bible. Wonder why the strength of his faith and devotion to God's word kept him from finishing the quote:

Or maybe his love of God was just an itsy-bitsy less strong than his fear of an enraged mother driving a stiletto heel through his right eye.

The Bible gives you the go-ahead to sell your daughter into sex slavery, kill your adulterous husband and that hussy he's seeing, and set your neighbors house on fire if he is a non-believer. You can burn down the whole neighborhood, if necessary. A loving God commands it, after all.

The bible really is against homosexual behavior, the new testament is probably against sex between any non married persons. The bible has a lot of hateful stuff in it, killing your enemies, including women and children, and even their animals. Christians, even the profound ones, are very selective in how they read and apply the Bible. Roman Catholics and bible believing protestants are in the same boat. A sincere believer values his loyalty to God above everything, even getting along with other people. To some degree I admire that. But it seems like you should be loyal to an idea at the expense of people only when you have really solid reasons for believing the idea.

[Woodsman]

Re: Doing work you should do yourself

Agape? You flatter yourself.

But you are absolutely correct. It was a moment of weakness, my failiure to ignore your screeds. I apologize to everyone for that lapse and kick myself for swallowing the vile bait.

[Raz]

Re: Doing work you should do yourself

Agape? You flatter yourself.

Agape is a gift of God and flatters no one, yet does requires an act of human volition to embrace it.
The very fact that I could ever pray for a jackass like you is proof of its miraculous nature.

But you are absolutely correct. It was a moment of weakness, my failiure to ignore your screeds. I apologize to everyone for that lapse and kick myself for swallowing the vile bait.

I don't "bait" anyone, and I never fish for sharks. It was your own rejection of truth combined with your vile disposition that caused you to attack.

Unlike you, however, I keep my word. Having examined an additional source and received another one by a private message from a kind and respectful member of this forum, it appears that not only was the statement given me years ago from a friend incorrect, but the Wikipedia article was also incorrect - Mr. Alinsky did not "dedicate" his book Rules for Radicals to Lucifer. I stand corrected.

That being said, when I read the interview he gave to Playboy Magazine three months before his death, together with the affection he apparently showered upon the lord of darkness in his epigraph of Rules for Radicals - it seems to me a "distinction without a difference".

PLAYBOY: Having accepted your own mortality, do you believe in any kind of afterlife?

ALINSKY: Sometimes it seems to me that the question people should ask is not "Is there life
after death?" but "Is there life after birth?" I don't know whether there's anything after this
or not. I haven't seen the evidence one way or the other and I don't think anybody else has
either. But I do know that man's obsession with the question comes out of his stubborn
refusal to face up to his own mortality. Let's say that if there is an afterlife, and I have
anything to say about it, I will unreservedly choose to go to hell.

PLAYBOY: Why?

ALINSKY: Hell would be heaven for me. All my life I've been with the have-nots. Over here,
if you're a have-not, you're short of dough. If you're a have-not in hell, you're short of
virtue. Once I get into hell, I'll start organizing the have-nots over there.

PLAYBOY: Why them?

ALINSKY: They're my kind of people.

----------------------
Saul Alinsky died a few months later, on June 12, 1972.

[vt]

Re: Doing work you should do yourself

I don't mind helping the have-nots who find themselves there through no fault of their own. In fact I would give the shirt off my back to help those in true need

About 60% of bankrupticies are due to medical costs. These families deserved to be helped to get back on their feet.

But I do not favor helping the do-nots. Those that have the ability and refuse to have a work ethic, refuse to learn, refuse to participate; these individuals do not deserve help.

America is generous. We help those who deserve it.

Of course almost all of us detest the takers who steal. The cronies, those that curry political favor, those that bend the law to gain wealth. They are as bad as the d0-nots.

[Woodsman]

Re: Doing work you should do yourself

Great. Just so long as you understand, the man is speaking metaphorically.

I don't know whether there's anything after this or not. I haven't seen the evidence one way or the other and I don't think anybody else has either. But I do know that man's obsession with the question comes out of his stubborn refusal to face up to his own mortality.

It's all going to be okay. The vile rich and vile poor will all come to precisely the same end, just like me and just like you.

Try and relax.

[Raz]

Re: Doing work you should do yourself

Great. Just so long as you understand, the man is speaking metaphorically.

ALINSKY: Hell would be heaven for me. All my life I've been with the have-nots. Over here,
if you're a have-not, you're short of dough. If you're a have-not in hell, you're short of
virtue. Once I get into hell, I'll start organizing the have-nots over there.

PLAYBOY: Why them?

ALINSKY: They're my kind of people.

They are indeed.

It's all going to be okay.

Dream on.

The vile rich and vile poor will all come to precisely the same end,

I agree.

...just like me and just like you.

Wishful thinking for someone of your disposition.

Try and relax.

"Medice, cura te ipsum."

[Woodsman]

Re: Medice, cura te ipsum

It only looks like that from underneath the wave, Raz.

Surf's up!

The matter of Saul Alinsky's allegiance to Beelzebub and Woodsman's personal depravity & degeneracy notwithstanding, there is after all a market meltdown afoot and the GOP is toying with nominating a man who by all accounts is an American fascist.

FWIW, here's Vox getting to the marrow of where we stand now.

So that's where American politics stands today: on one side, a radicalized, highly ideological demographic threatened with losing its place of privilege in society, politically activated, and locked into the House; on the other side, a demographically and ideologically heterogeneous coalition of interest groups big enough to reliably win the presidency and occasionally the Senate. For now, it's gridlock.

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214015...nerds-politics

If the question is about the next American revolution, I fully expect if it comes it will come from the right. Then again, I think it's the wrong question to ask because the rightist revolution, coup really, happened decades ago.

EJ once said something in an entirely unrelated context that seem to fit here. In rejecting a proposal he said that it was fundamentally "not in the DNA of America." I understand now what that really means.

[Raz]

Re: "What's facing us"

... there is after all a market meltdown afoot ...

Maybe, maybe not.

We'll know a lot more if the S & P 500* CLOSES below its 20-Month Simple Moving Average on Monday.
If it does, then it had better reverse and close back above (as in 2011) it by the end of September or we could indeed be facing one.

(*Chart didn't paste - SEE the PDF attached below.)

and the GOP is toying with nominating a man who by all accounts is an American fascist.

And the leading contender among the other major [corrupt] party is a pathological liar, first-rate demagogue and probable felon - the "Nixon of today" as Kunstler described her. But most Democrats would vote for Hillary no matter what she does.

(Maybe Trump can imitate Obama with his unconstitutional executive orders and his "not a smidgen of corruption".)

FWIW, here's Vox getting to the marrow of where we stand now.

Ezra Klein and Sleater-Kinney - Leftist blogger and amoral feminist punk-rockers. "Yes we Can" trust them to give us a "fair and balanced" view of what's facing America.

If the question is about the next American revolution, I fully expect if it comes it will come from the right. Then again, I think it's the wrong question to ask because the rightist revolution, coup really, happened decades ago.

Huge expansion in government, Obamacare, Same-Sex "Marriage", Sanctuary Cities, open borders, PC Dominance, the senseless garbage of Reality TV, unrestricted procured abortion with the bodies of those murdered put up for sale (like cadavers of the executed in North Korea used for organ harvesting), et cetera. Yep. Looks like the conservatives have it all sewed up!

EJ once said something in an entirely unrelated context that seem to fit here. In rejecting a proposal he said that it was fundamentally "not in the DNA of America." I understand now what that really means.

I also recall EJ saying something like 'while most would ask how much government can the private sector afford, you seemed to ask how much private sector does the government need?'

[lektrode]

Re: "What's facing us"

DING!!

this round: Raz vs woody?

....
...
And the leading contender among the other major [corrupt] party is a pathological liar, first-rate demagogue and probable felon - the "Nixon of today" as Kunstler described her. But most Democrats would vote for Hillary no matter what she does.

(Maybe Trump can imitate Obama with his unconstitutional executive orders and his "not a smidgen of corruption".)




Ezra Klein and Sleater-Kinney - Leftist blogger and amoral feminist punk-rockers. "Yes we Can" trust them to give us a "fair and balanced" view of what's facing America.

Huge expansion in government, Obamacare, Same-Sex "Marriage", Sanctuary Cities, open borders, PC Dominance, the senseless garbage of Reality TV, unrestricted procured abortion with the bodies of those murdered put up for sale (like cadavers of the executed in North Korea used for organ harvesting), et cetera. Yep. Looks like the conservatives have it all sewed up!

I also recall EJ saying something like 'while most would ask how much government can the private sector afford, you seemed to ask how much private sector does the government need?'

[Woodsman]

Re: "What's facing us"

Ezra Klein and Sleater-Kinney - Leftist blogger and amoral feminist punk-rockers. "Yes we Can" trust them to give us a "fair and balanced" view of what's facing America.

And for a bunch of riot grrl geezers, they rock. I get to see it again for myself this Christmas thanks to my buddy's impending nuptials. He's marrying a Hindu feminist community organizer against street harassment, barely above five feet tall and as cute as she is fierce. He's a Danish farm boy and tall as a viking, an artist and accountant at a city university. Lost touch with the brother for about as long as the last time I saw SK. Reconnected with him by pure happenstance while taking a class a few years ago and it was like we were right back where we left. Talk about gifts from God.

Anyway, it's just a song, old man. Doesn't ask you to trust, doesn't make any promises or demands. Although if you want, you can dance.

Try and relax. All will be well.

[dcarrigg]

Re: America's Next Revolution (the fourth) -Shattered Consensus

Raz, I'm sorry this thread went the direction it did. I had thought about adding more, but I can spot a train to nowhere miles away. If I couldn't, my damned Roth would be worth nothing.

Suffice it to say that I respect you and what you see. We're on opposite sides of issues a lot, but at least there's consistency. And I imagine we can see eye to eye on more issues than anyone else here can imagine.

I might be opposite your social views, but that wouldn't make you unique amongst my friends.

The punchline is that we're Americans, and we have a bunch of influences from everywhere in our lives, but we're not enemies. And we never will be. Talk of divorce be damned.

I love the New England utopian ideal of direct democracy and compulsory education. And I am a big fan of equality of opportunity and the idea that if you give someone a chance and an education, she just might surprise you. And yet, maybe I was still born and bred to be a leftist. The idea has crossed my mind.

It's hard to be gung ho about war and okay about discrimination when you grew up singing songs like this:

A certain affinity grows for the underdog. And a contempt for wealth is bread simultaneously. Although I imagine any careful reader of the New Testament will find the same impulse...

Rushdoony might have crucified the social gospel in America. But I hold onto hope it will rise again.