Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

[lektrode]

Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

must admit that to a longtime self-employed type like myself, that this is CERTAINLY a very interesting question
(altho will also admit that i'm more inclined to side with the anti's on it)

comments?

[dcarrigg]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

No.

Betteridge's Law of Headlines.

I think you put it as well as anyone, lek.

[don]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

as a fellow 30+ years self-employed, there are questions and comments, for sure.

a few:

A friend of mine's son got into the tea distribution business. (Prior to that he was a yoga instructor - I assume you see the connection) My friend marveled at all the free help he was getting - aka sharing. The father's prior position as VP at a large South Florida bank had a lot more to do with his son's gratuitous, absolutely real, help, I suspected. What happens in the sharing world when help is unevenly distributed?

Uber and its ilk are only possible with a desperate, under-employed workforce. When you see their stock valuation it's plain to all that this is a prize from the "dot-com" bubble machine.

The advantages to oligarch corporations is obvious. They're dominance is also, I suspect, a motor in driving alternatives. If sharing proves widespread and functional, how long before it's further co-opted as was micro-financing?

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

as a fellow 30+ years self-employed, there are questions and comments, for sure.

a few:

A friend of mine's son got into the tea distribution business. (Prior to that he was a yoga instructor - I assume you see the connection) My friend marveled at all the free help he was getting - aka sharing. The father's prior position as VP at a large South Florida bank had a lot more to do with his son's gratuitous, absolutely real, help, I suspected. What happens in the sharing world when help is unevenly distributed?

Uber and its ilk are only possible with a desperate, under-employed workforce. When you see their stock valuation it's plain to all that this is a prize from the "dot-com" bubble machine.

The advantages to oligarch corporations is obvious. They're dominance is also, I suspect, a motor in driving alternatives. If sharing proves widespread and functional, how long before it's further co-opted as was micro-financing?

But everyone uses Uber, and I mean everyone.

From girls who don't want to talk that half mile in heels to the bar down the street, to travel business people using it to get from one meeting to the next use Uber.

[jk]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

But everyone uses Uber, and I mean everyone.

From girls who don't want to talk that half mile in heels to the bar down the street, to travel business people using it to get from one meeting to the next use Uber.

the fact that people in urban locations use uber doesn't speak to whether the drivers are getting a good deal.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

"I was an undercover Uber driver."

http://longform.org/posts/i-was-an-u...er-uber-driver

[don]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

Without the free vehicle use, regulatory avoidance, etc. it would only be another taxi company. Of course people use it. It's more efficient. It's critical to its business model that there be a moribund labor environment for Uber to work.

[jk]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

"I was an undercover Uber driver."

http://longform.org/posts/i-was-an-u...er-uber-driver

thanks for posting that. i read the whole article- fascinating and disturbing. between it and the ny times article this week about the pay and health conditions of manicurists, i found myself wondering if i should reconsider marxism. not every business seems to make its money by exploiting their workers, but it seems like an awfully common strategy.

[Southernguy]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

"I was an undercover Uber driver."

http://longform.org/posts/i-was-an-u...er-uber-driver

The quote is pretty interesting. I finally understood the whole business. Thanks Thai

[lektrode]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

The quote is pretty interesting. I finally understood the whole business. Thanks Thai

+1

Without the free vehicle use, regulatory avoidance, etc. it would only be another taxi company. Of course people use it. It's more efficient. It's critical to its business model that there be a moribund labor environment for Uber to work.

would also appear that its critical (to the VC's) that the delusional 'vision of utopia' be maintained:

You can get a glimpse of his vision in a fascinating paper from Columbia University, which did several case studies on what a future with driverless cars would look like — apparently, like Uber crossed with Minority Report. And this could be coming as soon as 2020, according to both Tesla and Google, both of which are also heavily invested in the race to be a player in this huge future market.


In this world, the paper projects, fewer and fewer people own private cars, because it doesn’t make financial sense.

Cars run on electricty, and most are much smaller, designed to carry only one or two people. The auto industry experiences a temporary boom, but then demand drops off a cliff. By around 2040, driverless cars are a majority on American roads. The number of cars drops by more than 90%, as do fuel consumption and emissions. Car accidents and traffic are nearly nonexistent.

not that it makes 'financial sense' now - what with the now common 6,7 and 8 year loans...
(got a kick out of the comment from the guy who was 'serious about his life' justifying his indentured servitude for a 'new car' - for revenues that barely cover the $0.575/mile biz-use deduction... but thats beside the point, for the 'new math' generation, i guess... ;)

and we're all to just suppose that all this electricity will be 'free, from the sun', too - right?

riiiight...

but the real uber motivater also appears to be just like the rest of the so-called 'disruption/sharing economy'..
'hooray fer us (VC's) and f__k everybody else' (as they ride off into the sunset on the carried interest deduction..)

TechCrunch broke the news that Uber was building a huge robotics lab in Pittsburgh, partnering with Carnegie Mellon University to "kickstart autonomous taxi fleet development," according to a company source.

Travis Kalanick, the CEO and founder of Uber, said at a conference last year that he'd replace human Uber drivers with a fleet of self-driving cars in a second. "You're not just paying for the car — you're paying for the other dude in the car," he said. "When there's no other dude in the car, the cost of taking an Uber anywhere becomes cheaper than owning a vehicle." That, he said, will "bring the cost below the cost of ownership for everybody, and then car ownership goes away."

to be replaced by what?
a fleet of cars that uber owns?
and THEN what happens to their rates? (oh! i know - they'll go down - right?.. riiiiiight...)

never mind the question - just a minor detail, no doubt - to the VC's - of what replaces the:

Several hundred thousand Americans who have jobs involving driving, selling or manufacturing vehicles no longer have those jobs — including all Uber drivers.

other than the fact that the cars that do get produced will likely come from some TPP-enabled 'partner' country - right?

and The Rest of US will all become app designers - right?

RIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!

i stand by my prev comment (and agree with/thank dc, who once again, gets it right-on-the-money)

[don]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

would also appear that its critical (to the VC's) that the delusional 'vision of utopia' be maintained

+1 (as is always the case, eh . . . )

[lektrode]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

+1 (as is always the case, eh . . . )

ayuh...

here's the 'sharing economy' - london style (are you readin me, mr mike (mega ;) ?

London Housing Bubble Watch: $630/Month For A Bed "In" A Shared Kitchen!

[flintlock]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

Okay so now I know what Uber is. Pretty much what I figured. This is nothing more than the same old scam businesses have been pulling for decades. Scam is perhaps harsh. Scheme? Getting somewhat naive workers to invest their own capital in a business venture where they have almost no control over anything. Franchises do it all the time. Even a lot of small businesses do it. They call employees "contractors" and convince them to invest in tools, vehicles, etc, then threaten to pull the rug out from under them if they dont go along with worsening pay and conditions, or even for no reason at all. I see it all the time. Your average cable tv sub-contractor comes to mind.

Still it can be a valid choice for the hopelessly unemployed or those in between jobs. I suspect most who do it eventually will realize they are getting the short end of the stick at some point. Most will probably underestimate the true vehicle operating cost, as well as tax implications( self employment tax?) not to mention the increased odds of being hurt or disabled driving in a vehicle 8 hours day. Or of hurting someone else. Things would need to be pretty bad before I could justify that kind of risk/reward job. Its basically a play on the business naivete of Americans. And their lack of jobs.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

Okay so now I know what Uber is. Pretty much what I figured. This is nothing more than the same old scam businesses have been pulling for decades. Scam is perhaps harsh. Scheme? Getting somewhat naive workers to invest their own capital in a business venture where they have almost no control over anything. Franchises do it all the time. Even a lot of small businesses do it. They call employees "contractors" and convince them to invest in tools, vehicles, etc, then threaten to pull the rug out from under them if they dont go along with worsening pay and conditions, or even for no reason at all. I see it all the time. Your average cable tv sub-contractor comes to mind.

Still it can be a valid choice for the hopelessly unemployed or those in between jobs. I suspect most who do it eventually will realize they are getting the short end of the stick at some point. Most will probably underestimate the true vehicle operating cost, as well as tax implications( self employment tax?) not to mention the increased odds of being hurt or disabled driving in a vehicle 8 hours day. Or of hurting someone else. Things would need to be pretty bad before I could justify that kind of risk/reward job. Its basically a play on the business naivete of Americans. And their lack of jobs.

This is exactly what the whole "sharing economy" is. Be it driver with Uber, handyman with TaskRabbit, sublet-er with AirBnB, it's all the same story.

[santafe2]

Re: Can the Sharing Economy Provide Good Jobs?

This is exactly what the whole "sharing economy" is. Be it driver with Uber, handyman with TaskRabbit, sublet-er with AirBnB, it's all the same story.

Uber not only privatizes profits and socializes losses they individualize both debt and risk and then squeeze their contractors until they bleed. Well done Uber, love your social conscience.