Galbraith on Greece

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

More analysis and developments:

Declaration of Professors of Economics at Greek Universities on the Referendum

Three Independent Greeks MPs distance themselves from gov't line on referendum

Tsipras's fatal mistakes

And by the way, does Stockman or anyone here for that matter know who Lafazanis is? If you don't, you don't know the whole story.

Venceremos! Greek minister: Venezuela an … 'example for smaller countries'

[vt]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

This is getting old, and I am no longer responding to foreign "Intellectuals" applying North American analysis to a Balkan country they know nothing about. And why should these Intellectuals give a damn about the consequences, it's not like it affects them at all. To them, it's all a game.

Unfortunately the knee jerk proponents of communism and socialism interject into any nation's misfortune systems that have failed time and again. Communism especially is repressive to freedom. Socialism fails when others money and patience runs out.

This is not to say that bankster capitalism is the answer either. It is just elitism in better clothing. Communism and socialism have their own elites, and their wealth can match many in the elite capitalist nations,

Hopefully Greece, the birthplace of the first democracy, might find a way to create a better political system for the 21st century.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

It is part of the culture...most Greeks won't admit it.

Really? Thailand is consistently ranked one of the most corrupt countries in the world. When it seeps down into the commons everything becomes suspect. Did that kid really get the grades to get into that university? Is that pharmacy selling fake medicine? Did that rich guy pay the import tax on that Mercedes?

Everyone has stories and most are willing to tell you how at some key moment they beat the system.

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Really? Thailand is consistently ranked one of the most corrupt countries in the world. When it seeps down into the commons everything becomes suspect. Did that kid really get the grades to get into that university? Is that pharmacy selling fake medicine? Did that rich guy pay the import tax on that Mercedes?

Everyone has stories and most are willing to tell you how at some key moment they beat the system.

Ha! I heard the imported Mercedes story a few times here in Greece. But luckily, not the pharmacy story.


From transparency.org (2010 figures, just as the bubble finally burst):

Government and politics
The public sector suffers from substantial integrity gaps in both law and practice. Some public officials have acted without transparency or effective oversight for decades. As a result, there is a trend to demand and accept bribes. But these actions tend to go unpunished. A 2010 report indicates that only 2% of misbehaved civil servants are subject to disciplinary procedures.

Recent large scale corruption scandals also highlight the risk of conflicts of interest between public office and the private sector. Due to the volume of scandals, citizens’ distrust in public service has proliferated.
Tax evasion
A poor system of tax inspections, aided by an opaque tax code, allows individuals and companies to bribe inspectors and evade taxes. According to a 2011 survey, the cost of bribing tax inspectors to “arrange” tax audit activities is reported to range from €100 to €20,000. And estimates show that €120 billion may have been lost to illicit money from bribes and tax evasion in the first decade of 2000.

Private sector
The business sector’s complex legal and fiscal environment, excessive bureaucracy, and frequent policy changes create an atmosphere conducive to corruption. This in turn prevents effective competition, development and growth. Furthermore, while listed Athens Stock Exchange companies operate with reasonable corporate governance, non-listed firms function in a state of almost complete opacity.

Public procurement
Due to a lack of access to public contracts and procedures, public procurement in Greece remains vulnerable to corruption. Weaknesses are furthered by the country’s inadequate transparency requirements and enforcement. Effective implementation of public contracting rules and processes is alsoabsent.

So here in Greece, a dysfunctional government breeds corruption, both public and private sector. The "corrupt oligarchs" stealing from the country is only a small part. Why? Just about everyone stole if you broaden the definition! So add to that powerful overpaid unions, made up unnecessary government jobs to ensure future votes, generous early retirements, tax evasion.... and guess what? The country becomes broke at some point. What a surprise.

So let's put this in perspective. Is it really an innocent population being manipulated by banks, or a corrupt system partnering with banks to perpetuate the corruption, without which, the system crashes.

It crashed... and yes, suicide rates went up. But it was a ticking time bomb well before the banksters or the EU elites stepped in.

How can it be reformed? From the inside? From the outside? Or as some of my younger friends with little to lose that may vote "no" in this referendum say - let it all crash to the ground, and maybe a meritocracy will arise from the rubble. When I hear that, I ask them: You know what that means... are you really prepared for that? They always pause to think.

[gnk]

Re: Galbraith on Greece

Here's a fun fact:

While senior citizens are fainting in the heat waiting to get a fraction of their pensions, while hospitals are in desperate need of supplies, what does the Minister of Health, Kouroumplis do?

He appoints his nephew as a dentist at a hospital that doesn't need a dentist. Meanwhile, doctors elsewhere in Greek hospitals are in short supply.

Here's the article, though it's in Greek, google translate does an ok job.

[Woodsman]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Unfortunately the knee jerk proponents of communism and socialism interject...

Yes, shocked shocked to see red baiting here.



You're winning sir. Don't mind the smell. That's herring they're cooking up in the kitchen.

[GRG55]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

I don't believe there is much chance of meaningful reform without a serious crisis first (and even then, sufficient change is never assured). Not unique to Greece; it's human nature. Everywhere.

The bailouts allowed the Europeans enough time to protect their banks by transferring most of the debt to the public balance sheet, while the consequences for the Greeks were further concentrated and amplified.

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Look, I'm no right wing teabagger. Heck, I'm all for socialized medicine and something has got to be done for Higher education in the US. So what does that make me?

But here in Greece, we have real life Marxists, in office, that visit Venezuela and say "great job!" It's a different game than the overplayed commie scare tactic used by Republicans in the US whenever someone dare thinks of socializing medicine.

You are still projecting your North Americancentric analysis onto a Balkan country. Here, it's real.

You still don't get it.

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

I don't believe there is much chance of meaningful reform without a serious crisis first (and even then, sufficient change is never assured). Not unique to Greece; it's human nature. Everywhere.

The bailouts allowed the Europeans enough time to protect their banks by transferring most of the debt to the public balance sheet, while the consequences for the Greeks were further concentrated and amplified.

The banks should have been punished more, I agree. But I'm looking at Greece right now.

It wasn't the new debt that initially wacked the Greek economy. After all, the debt payments as a percentage of GDP are still lower than other EU countries. And in the first few years, Greece wasn't even forced to have a positive surplus. You know what hit GDP initially? The end of the deficit financed corruption economy. GDP would have collapsed even more if Greece defaulted and went drachma. A new currency for a corrupt government? That would have gone over well.

Greece is not a nordic country. Understand that, and you understand that economic theories work differently in different countries. Malinvestments produce short term unsustainable growth - back to square one.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

I understand GNK's frustration, re: responding to the commentary of foreigners with no skin on the line in Greece, but this:

Unfortunately the knee jerk proponents of communism and socialism interject into any nation's misfortune systems that have failed time and again. Communism especially is repressive to freedom. Socialism fails when others money and patience runs out.

is baffling. David Stockman is a knee-jerk proponent of communism and socialism? Okay. These words have no longer have agreed upon definitions.

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Slimprofits, those are vt's words, not Stockman's.

My problem is that David Stockman is analyzing this as a Big EU v Small independent country and completely ignores the current Greek government's makeup.

His entire article is moot. He mentions nationalizing the banks, yet has no idea what type of Government Greece currently has, and what many of the ministers' aspirations really are. Or at least, he doesn't address it, or go into detail as to why Greece is where it is.

His article is a beat up European elite piece that ignores too many other factors going on in Greece. He gives his own take on the referendum, which I can't blame him there... it's too ambiguous.

Greece is a boat with a severely damaged hull. Period. Tweaking the engine, filling up the tank with diesel alone isn't going to fix it. It will still sink.

[Jam]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

SYRIZA has accomplished three things:

1) They re-hired cleaning ladies [...]

2) They re-opened EPT [...]

3) They gave a lunch allowance [...]

4) They passed a law [...]

who's counting...

[vt]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

No one is red baiting, but cheer leading for the left doesn't work either.

Right and Left don't work. The world doesn't need Nazis, Communists, Socialists, Crony Capitalists or elite government supported oligarchs either.

A political system to save us hasn't been created yet, but the world needs one. It may arrive before one fully realizes it as the people need it.


P.S. Jim Webb announced today. He could eventually run as an independent, and is closer to the new system as any other candidate.

[touchring]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Slimprofits, those are vt's words, not Stockman's.

My problem is that David Stockman is analyzing this as a Big EU v Small independent country and completely ignores the current Greek government's makeup.

His entire article is moot. He mentions nationalizing the banks, yet has no idea what type of Government Greece currently has, and what many of the ministers' aspirations really are. Or at least, he doesn't address it, or go into detail as to why Greece is where it is.

His article is a beat up European elite piece that ignores too many other factors going on in Greece. He gives his own take on the referendum, which I can't blame him there... it's too ambiguous.

Greece is a boat with a severely damaged hull. Period. Tweaking the engine, filling up the tank with diesel alone isn't going to fix it. It will still sink.

How about lifting the boat out of the water and placing it on a German ship? Isn't this is what it is all about?

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Pretty much. But Greeks are really, really independent minded and want to see the ship 3/4 sunk before they change their mind.