Galbraith on Greece

[don]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

have you ever considered living in Soviet Russia?

I see the red card is being played. Yes, the SU is no more, but the point is made.

Criticize the militarization of the police in America - "Whatta ya gonna do when the bad guys come through your door"

Criticize Big Oil - "Hey, ya gonna give up your car"

Criticize the TBTF Debt Machine - "Commie, bastard"

Think of this as a preview of what's lapping at our shores . . . .

[Woodsman]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

... Woodsmen - have you ever considered living in Soviet Russia? Many members of SYRIZA aspire to creating that kind of country here in Greece. This is not hyperbole. This is Greece's internal fight, not yours, Woodsmen.

I see. What you're telling me is go live in Soviet Russia. Because as all good Greek rightist know it's either you're one of "us" or your're a commie. And it's better dead than red, right GNK? You keep insisting that things are "nuanced" and "complicated" but really it's as simple as that. God bless you and keep you GNK.

[jpatter666]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Sorry shiny!, but it wasn't directed at any specific individual. You have to understand I live here, and its a stressful time period. I'm the one seeing dry goods flying off the shelves. I'm the one watching senior citizens crying. I'm the one seeing a hospital run out of supplies.

Greece was going to crash one way or another, with or without a Memorandum. I explained the causes of that crash many times before.

The bankster meme applied in 2010. Not so much now. But I guess everyone wants to project their biases on what is going on in Greece. Especially economists that have never lived here.

Tsipras and the radical left have an agenda, that to me, is just as dangerous as the banksters.

What is going on in Greece right now involves a clash of cultures. Greece finds itself in the middle of three continents, and that has affected the culture here a lot. Is Greece anchored in the West? Should it have been part of the USSR? Should it "fight the powers" and go the Venezuela/Chavez route?

It's much more complicated and I hope you understand that when I see commentators only seeing this as a bankster meme, it elevates Tsipras and the anti-Europe crowd here in Greece. It is very complicated. The economists that have commented on Tsipras don't know what he really stands for.

Woodsmen loves the bankster meme. Woodsmen - have you ever considered living in Soviet Russia? Many members of SYRIZA aspire to creating that kind of country here in Greece. This is not hyperbole. This is Greece's internal fight, not yours, Woodsmen.

Best description of the whole Greek issue I've seen yet. PDF file.

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/anil...sis_june29.pdf

[jk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Moscow is the cleanest, most well maintained metropolitan city I have ever been in.

and mussolini made the trains run on time.

[don]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Michael Hudson is a Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. He is the author of The Bubble and Beyond and Finance Capitalism and its Discontents. His most recent book is titled Killing the Host: How Financial Parasites and Debt Bondage Destroy the Global Economy.

William K. Black, author of The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One, teaches economics and law at the University of Missouri Kansas City (UMKC). He was the Executive Director of the Institute for Fraud Prevention from 2005-2007. He has taught previously at the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin and at Santa Clara University, where he was also the distinguished scholar in residence for insurance law and a visiting scholar at the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics.

Black was litigation director of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board, deputy director of the FSLIC, SVP and general counsel of the Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco, and senior deputy chief counsel, Office of Thrift Supervision. He was deputy director of the National Commission on Financial Institution Reform, Recovery and Enforcement.

Black developed the concept of “control fraud” frauds in which the CEO or head of state uses the entity as a “weapon.” Control frauds cause greater financial losses than all other forms of property crime combined. He recently helped the World Bank develop anti-corruption initiatives and served as an expert for OFHEO in its enforcement action against Fannie Mae’s former senior management.

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

I am not a knee jerk bank supporter. I find what the banks did in the US criminal, so don't put me in the nonthinking "like it or leave it crowd."

I have spoken to many Greeks that believe in voting "No" at the referendum. Not once has a bankster meme come up.

This is different, but I see everyones' biases are so strong, they see what they want to see when looking at a country thousands of miles away.

I am not playing a red card. It is actually what these guys want. They want Marxism. You don't get it because you have never lived in a country where Marxism was a real possibility.

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

A friend of mine that does business in Russia once told me a story.

He was at a bar talking to a Russian semi-oligarch. Not billionaire, but very rich, and well connected with the government. As they were talking, he looks at their waitress, and for some reason, throws a punch and knocks her out cold. She is carried out of the restaurant, and then its back to business as usual as if nothing happened.

But hey, maybe Moscow is clean.

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

I see. What you're telling me is go live in Soviet Russia. Because as all good Greek rightist know it's either you're one of "us" or your're a commie. And it's better dead than red, right GNK? You keep insisting that things are "nuanced" and "complicated" but really it's as simple as that. God bless you and keep you GNK.

Seriously, you should live abroad. It's a great experience. Especially somewhere where there is an ongoing clash of cultures. You will see the nuances, as well as the stark contrasts. Right now you live in a stable environment and so its easy to make opinions when you have no skin in the game.

You will learn a lot - I'm being sincere here.

And by the way, it's not just right verse left. In the US I voted mostly Democrat. What does that make me? The Leftists in charge here would say Obama economically speaking, is a fascist. But there are a lot of leftists that are pro EU, but probably more that are pro Mother Russia. It's also cultural. And left here can be anywhere from center left to full blown Trotsky/Marxist Leninist Left. Do you have that where you live?

You will never get it in the comfortable, stable confines of the US. You have no idea what turmoil really is.

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Best description of the whole Greek issue I've seen yet. PDF file.

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/anil...sis_june29.pdf

It's a good read, but ignores the dysfunctionality that exists here in Greece. Practically non existent tax collections enforcement, rampant corruption, bloated government sector, etc... It's not just about dollars and cents.

If Greece was forgiven the debt without reforms, what would have happened?

I also agree that the banks got off scott free. The 2012 haircut was not enough, IMO.

But Greece still has a long way to reform itself.

[Woodsman]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

...you have no idea what turmoil really is.

GNK, you don't know anything about where I've traveled and lived, what languages I speak, or anything else about me. And going from sincere insults to insincere kindness in two posts tells me that you're the sort of person best avoided.

Please refrain from directing any comments or communications to me moving forward. I encourage you to block my posts in the event I fail to offer you the same courtesy. God bless you now and in the days ahead.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

It’s impossible to know the deep politics of a foreign country even if you live there, speak the language, read the papers, and marry into the culture. Class barriers, corruption, and resentments are rooted in past generations. Propaganda and hyperbolic stereotypes abound. The media, especially any English language media is always milk toast. You tend to get one side of the story from your friends. Everyone else keeps their mouth shut. I lived next door to CNN’s Bangkok Bureau Chief during the first gulf war. He was married to a Thai and lived with her Thai family. The stuff he reported on TV was so off, I complained to his wife. She said, “Every night we prove to him he is full of it, but it doesn’t do any good.” The educated people we knew in the Dominican Republic didn’t know their own history. Juan Bosch, president for 7 months, was labeled a communist because he had a cup of coffee with Fidel. He was a mild reformer, but not to be tolerated by the powerful elite. Same thing in Thailand. Anybody who has proposed modest reforms in the last 50 years has been labeled communist. I doubt there is a radical left in Greece. What radical proposals have they put forward?

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

It’s impossible to know the deep politics of a foreign country even if you live there, speak the language, read the papers, and marry into the culture. Class barriers, corruption, and resentments are rooted in past generations. Propaganda and hyperbolic stereotypes abound. The media, especially any English language media is always milk toast. You tend to get one side of the story from your friends. Everyone else keeps their mouth shut. I lived next door to CNN’s Bangkok Bureau Chief during the first gulf war. He was married to a Thai and lived with her Thai family. The stuff he reported on TV was so off, I complained to his wife. She said, “Every night we prove to him he is full of it, but it doesn’t do any good.” The educated people we knew in the Dominican Republic didn’t know their own history. Juan Bosch, president for 7 months, was labeled a communist because he had a cup of coffee with Fidel. He was a mild reformer, but not to be tolerated by the powerful elite. Same thing in Thailand. Anybody who has proposed modest reforms in the last 50 years has been labeled communist. I doubt there is a radical left in Greece. What radical proposals have they put forward?

SYRIZA has accomplished three things:

1) They re-hired cleaning ladies that were laid off at the Ministry of Finance.

2) They re-opened EPT - Greece's public TV Station that was closed down by the prior administration to save costs.

3) They gave a lunch allowance of 6 Euros a day to the employees of the Public Power Company.

4) They passed a law that allowed disabled prisoners to be under house arrest (This was geared to a Nov 17th Terrorist that has killed Greeks, British and Americans - the US has labeled that an "unfriendly act"

Some background:

The cleaning ladies rehire was all show for public consumption. At the Finance Ministry, employees are paid double what similar employees are paid at other Ministries in order to compete with the Financial Sector and recruit talented financial professionals. So, when the cleaning ladies were sacked or refused a lower salary last year, they went on strike - a very public display of the "evil" troika against our weak blue collar workers. But why would they go on strike for so long, camping out of the Finance Ministry? Because they were entitled to the salary increase as are the financial professionals at the Ministry! I heard they get paid 2,000 Euros for half days work! Hell, I would be camping out on strike too for that kind of money.


EPT TV - The last administration closed the overbloated public broadcaster down, and replaced it with a slimmed down version called NERIT. Tsipras re-opened EPT. Why? It is his mouthpiece. It is the Pro-SYRIZA, publicly funded channel.

Lunch Allowance to Public Power company employees - These employees are some of the best paid employees in Greece - compared to both public and private sectors. When they don't get what they want, we have blackouts. So... pre-crisis, they always got what they wanted. So, what's with this 6 Euro lunch allowance? These employees/union always support a pro-government party with VOTES. Tsipras basically said, "I'll take care of you"

If Tsipras was all about doing something for this humanitarian crisis, he would have started a national school lunch program - who could argue against that? I couldn't. But why didn't he? Democracy is about special interests. You spend public money to support the interests that got you in office. Feeding children randomly is not a "targeted" investment as you would be feeding the children of opposition parties.

If you are a politician in Greece - you make sure your interests are taken care of!!!

But yes, I can't say I know everything about Greece, I still learn something every day. But when I first came here in 2010, I viewed the crisis as a Bankster/4th Reich phenomena. As I started understanding the "system" here... a new view emerged. One that many people on this forum can't understand apparently. I didn't either until about 2-3 years into living here.

By the way, I'm not some wealthy individual. But I know people from all walks of life here - from mountain villagers to Athenians with government contacts.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

1) They re-hired cleaning ladies that were laid off at the Ministry of Finance.

2) They re-opened EPT - Greece's public TV Station that was closed down by the prior administration to save costs.

3) They gave a lunch allowance of 6 Euros a day to the employees of the Public Power Company.

4) They passed a law that allowed disabled prisoners to be under house arrest (This was geared to a Nov 17th Terrorist that has killed Greeks, British and Americans - the US has labeled that an "unfriendly act"

The above is comedy, right? What radical proposals have been put forth?

[gnk]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Very little legislating has been done. A few things in the educational field - but nothing really "radical."

Here in Greece the news has been about non stop negotiations with the Eurogroup and Commission. We are all exhausted from it. You know what it's like to constantly hear: next week, by months end, etc... we will have a deal? Listen to that for over 5 months. It's exhausting.

Aside from that, nothing that I recall. To me, SYRIZA on a domestic level is all about supporting public sector employees. Varoufakis has discussed streamlining government to make it more business friendly, but nothing has been done. The negotiations were to have been the "radical" part of SYRIZA - and still, with no real results.

Look, I wish they could wipe out most of that debt. And I don't like paying high taxes. But the reality is, you negotiate from a position of strength, and have a deadline in mind. Tsipras took it way too far and will be paying a political price for it, unless of course, her really wants the drachma but can't admit it.

Scenes at a bank this morning.

[verdo]

Re: Greece / Suicide Rate Surges 35% In 2 Years

Well, it looks like Greece has pretty much defaulted. Now what?