Hilary's Emails

[don]

The elephant in the room in this partisan fandango is we all know the NSA has all of the Secretary of State of the United States's emails . . . right?

[Master Shake]

Re: Hilary's Emails

The elephant in the room in this partisan fandango is we all know the NSA has all of the Secretary of State of the United States's emails . . . right?

Partisan?

[Master Shake]

Re: Hilary's Emails

[dcarrigg]

Re: Hilary's Emails

Partisan?

Yes, partisan. It's just as stupid as when Democrats were making a stink about Sarah Palin using six different e-mail addresses for official business when she was governor. I was on record hear saying, "Who cares?" for the Palin "scandal." And I still don't care now that the shoe's on the other foot..

We need to find a balance with e-mail. Life's not all compartmentalized like it used to be. And in the age of snail mail, nobody ever demanded to see the entirety of a candidate's personal correspondence or little notes back and forth to friends and family.

The quest for transparency is starting to make us stupid. It's like a 21st century thought disease.

Everybody wants lots of data, lots of transparency, and lots of efficiency. Everybody has sort of collectively agreed that more data, more transparency, and more efficiency is 'good.' Well I'm here to tell you that too much of a good thing is always bad.

To get efficiency, we make one-size-fits-all procedures and forms. To get data and transparency we fill out forms constantly.

The result is that nobody really does their job anymore. Everyone's on a data/transparency/efficiency quest.

Doctors are filling out paperwork. Nurses are filling out paperwork. Cops are filling out paperwork. Teachers are filling out paperwork. Students are filling out paperwork. Salesmen are filling out paperwork. Everybody's filling out more and more f-ing paperwork. Everybody's recording everything. That's how we get the data.

And everybody's letting the data created by all this paperwork drive their actions. Because the data has to be transparent. People see it. Don't want to look bad in the data. So everybody's teaching to the test and policing to the stats and moving patients off of hospital floors to keep patient churn and doing everything possible to look good in the data.

And despite how obviously inefficient it is to have everybody doing something other than their job - to have everybody doing ever more paperwork to generate ever more data just to alter their behavior to game that data for the bosses and TV folk to look good in public - we still do it. We just sort everybody's stats next to other people's stats doing the same thing and call the ones with the prettiest data "efficient."

And of course it's inefficient. It's a stupid game. I don't care if it's 30 e-mails or 300,000,000. I don't care if they have 1 e-mail account or 100,000. Personally, it doesn't matter at all. Not one bit. Plenty of Senators have never even used e-mail.

At some point we've got to stop playing stupid games, stop comparing every scandal to watergate and every law to nazi Germany and grow the hell up. It's not the number of e-mails or e-mail accounts that matter. I don't even think I should have the right to read all their e-mails. Nor would I want to.

And I have no desire to see another Clinton/Bush presidential choice. I think it's bad for America.

But you know what else is bad for America? Having each party recording and trolling through 100% of everything on everybody in the other party like Big Brother just waiting in the wings for a "Gotcha!" moment like Monica Lewinsky's dress. It's stupid. I'm over it.

I'm over the transparency crusade too.

There's already too much data out there. There's already too much transparency. If anything, I'd like to see the pendulum shift back a little bit to secrecy and privacy for a few years.

But then again, that's just me, and I'm extra-easy to disagree with 'round these parts these days.

[vt]

Re: Hilary's Emails

No one gives a damn about Hillary's personal emails, but if it's official State Department business they need to be preserved.

If you're in private industry try telling a regulator you destroyed all your emails. You'd be strung up.

Hillary broke the law by deleting State Department official business.

[Master Shake]

Re: Hilary's Emails

If you think a high ranking government official (the freaking Sec'y of State for crying out loud) using a personal email account with a private server to conduct government business is no big deal, then I would say that YOU are partisan.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Hilary's Emails

If you think a high ranking government official (the freaking Sec'y of State for crying out loud) using a personal email account with a private server to conduct government business is no big deal, then I would say that YOU are partisan.

Whatever you say. My political views are pretty well known around here. But I'm not going to be wearing any Hillary buttons. And of course, Jeb did the private e-mail server too. And I'll defend his right to just as well. The public does not have the right to read every little thing on every official's smartphone. And we don't need third party independent investigations into deciding whether the intern picking up the dry cleaning was official business or not. It's stupid. And of course anyone planning on running for president would hire their own firm and use their own security in this age of constant big brother computer nonsense. You'd be an idiot not to.

Nobody insists that every single phone call these people make for the years they are in office is recorded and released to the public. I don't see why every single bit of their digital data should have to. And I don't care if they take a call at home once in a while and it's not recorded. Just like I don't care if they e-mail from home either.

I mean, nobody ever said that 100% of all business must be done exclusively on the work phone. Nobody ever said you weren't allowed to have conversations about official business off-work-site and unrecorded. Nobody ever said that 100% of all business must be done exclusively through work mail. Nobody even said that every single piece of mail had to be saved and every single phone call and conversation had to be recorded.

But somehow, when it turns into e-mail and computers, we need to know and record 100% of everything, right down the fact the ass in Billy Jeff's Haines underwear is worn out and he needs a new pack, and Jeb asks his driver pick up a box of Kotex on the way home.

I don't care. I don't care that Colin Powell saved 0 e-mails from his time using a personal e-mail account as Secretary of State.

I just really don't care. Not at all.

[touhy]

Re: Hilary's Emails

The emails must have been so bad.

[charliebrown]

Re: Hilary's Emails

I have two e-mail accounts, my corporate, and personal. I never intermingle the two. I have been told that using my personal account for business is big issue,
due to questions regarding security, protecting the brand etc. I don't send personal e-mails through corporate, you never what is going to be termed "offensive" by corporate mail readers, or seen as using company property for personal business.

additionally corporate e-mail is subject to document retention policies to protect us against legal action. My personal account has no such limitation or policing. I'm not sure I agree with this policy because I think in some respects it is a "catch me if you can" policy but it does underscore the importance of keeping separate accounts. And it does cause me fits because of my e-mails are technical in nature, and have a very long shelf life. I have go through special process to have these documented to prevent automatic destruction.

I disagree with D.C. opinion about Hillary she should use the .gov email server for all business. I do agree with him about the "forms" things
some weeks I think I spend 30% of my time complying with this red-tape B.S.

[jpatter666]

Re: Hilary's Emails

Whatever you say. My political views are pretty well known around here. But I'm not going to be wearing any Hillary buttons. And of course, Jeb did the private e-mail server too. And I'll defend his right to just as well. The public does not have the right to read every little thing on every official's smartphone. And we don't need third party independent investigations into deciding whether the intern picking up the dry cleaning was official business or not. It's stupid. And of course anyone planning on running for president would hire their own firm and use their own security in this age of constant big brother computer nonsense. You'd be an idiot not to.

Nobody insists that every single phone call these people make for the years they are in office is recorded and released to the public. I don't see why every single bit of their digital data should have to. And I don't care if they take a call at home once in a while and it's not recorded. Just like I don't care if they e-mail from home either.

I mean, nobody ever said that 100% of all business must be done exclusively on the work phone. Nobody ever said you weren't allowed to have conversations about official business off-work-site and unrecorded. Nobody ever said that 100% of all business must be done exclusively through work mail. Nobody even said that every single piece of mail had to be saved and every single phone call and conversation had to be recorded.

But somehow, when it turns into e-mail and computers, we need to know and record 100% of everything, right down the fact the ass in Billy Jeff's Haines underwear is worn out and he needs a new pack, and Jeb asks his driver pick up a box of Kotex on the way home.

I don't care. I don't care that Colin Powell saved 0 e-mails from his time using a personal e-mail account as Secretary of State.

I just really don't care. Not at all.

As a techie, my friends in the computer security business were appalled. 100% chance compromised they say. And a foreign power would have to be an idiot not to attack that server.

Governors don't deal with national security issues. The Secretary of State most certainly does. And much has changed since Colin Powell's day.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Hilary's Emails

As a techie, my friends in the computer security business were appalled. 100% chance compromised they say. And a foreign power would have to be an idiot not to attack that server.

Governors don't deal with national security issues. The Secretary of State most certainly does. And much has changed since Colin Powell's day.

How much changed about e-mail and blackberries since Colin Powell had the job in 2005?

Seriously. What do you think changed between when Powell left in 2005 and Clinton came in January 2009?

I got my G-mail beta in 2004 and I've used it ever since...

Both Colin Powell and Hillary Clinton both say they never used e-mail for national security or classified issues.

And I believe them both.

Anyone with both a security clearance and an e-mail address (millions of Americans) understands why.

So I don't care.

But I think you ought to re-think your idea that governors don't deal with national security issues. They most certainly do. They command the National Guard and the state police, often command investigatory agencies, and even run into national security issues in the energy, transportation, and health arenas.

Even Mayors typically get security clearances and access to secret information. In fact, that's a "scandal" they were trying to blow up in NYC.

Instead of real investigative journalism now, we just get this stupid media pile-on of things I'm going to call "scandallettes" that go nowhere but beg comparisons to Watergate and Teapot Dome and get one party or the other all riled up and ready to march in the streets over nothing.

The story is never "NYC Mayor Can't Get Security Clearance Because He Was Found to Be a Member of Foreign Security Services." Now there's a real nasty scandal that would require investigative journalism. But it's not that. It's always "NYC Mayor Doesn't Have Security Clearance; Let's Speculate!" Which requires no journalistic effort or integrity whatsoever.

I feel the same way about this e-mail deal. It's a "scandallette." Good enough to get a pavlovian response off the base. But ultimately lacking in substance.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Hilary's Emails

Hey Charliebrown: Don't get me wrong. They changed the law last year saying you can't use a personal e-mail address; so if Kerry was doing it now, it would be an issue. Gotta comply with the rules.

That said, I still think it's stupid. Actual secret info is not going to go via regular e-mail. So the most important information already travels by a different route. Which e-mail address you use I guess it's not all that different from using your work or home address. It just seems to me that instead of blanket rules here, a little common sense would be nice. Like a button you hit for things that should be archived.

What they're moving toward is a policy of "all your data are belong to us," which I don't think is a wise, or efficient way to set things up.

What it will do is make people not use e-mail and pick up the phone. Condoleezza Rice simply didn't use e-mail.

And I think that will be the result of this new law and all these other "gotcha" policies.

If you make e-mail harder to use and more public than phones and letters, people will simply revert to phones and letters.

After what they're putting Hillary through, I'd use shortwave, numbers stations, and one-time pads before I'd even consider touching e-mail again for the rest of my career if I were a secretary of state thinking of becoming president.

After all, these are executive jobs. Not highly technical. You can order an underlying to brief you, then order them to issue orders to everyone else. It just might not be the best way to do things in the 21st century. Or maybe it is? But it's stupid if it is.

[Master Shake]

Re: Hilary's Emails

Whatever you say. My political views are pretty well known around here. But I'm not going to be wearing any Hillary buttons. And of course, Jeb did the private e-mail server too. And I'll defend his right to just as well. The public does not have the right to read every little thing on every official's smartphone. And we don't need third party independent investigations into deciding whether the intern picking up the dry cleaning was official business or not. It's stupid. And of course anyone planning on running for president would hire their own firm and use their own security in this age of constant big brother computer nonsense. You'd be an idiot not to.

Nobody insists that every single phone call these people make for the years they are in office is recorded and released to the public. I don't see why every single bit of their digital data should have to. And I don't care if they take a call at home once in a while and it's not recorded. Just like I don't care if they e-mail from home either.

I mean, nobody ever said that 100% of all business must be done exclusively on the work phone. Nobody ever said you weren't allowed to have conversations about official business off-work-site and unrecorded. Nobody ever said that 100% of all business must be done exclusively through work mail. Nobody even said that every single piece of mail had to be saved and every single phone call and conversation had to be recorded.

But somehow, when it turns into e-mail and computers, we need to know and record 100% of everything, right down the fact the ass in Billy Jeff's Haines underwear is worn out and he needs a new pack, and Jeb asks his driver pick up a box of Kotex on the way home.

I don't care. I don't care that Colin Powell saved 0 e-mails from his time using a personal e-mail account as Secretary of State.

I just really don't care. Not at all.

Lots of red herrings there!

No one is saying that Hillary can't have a private life and a personal email. She just can't conduct official business on her own private server, which she did exclusively while SOS.

Standard State Department rules apparently did not apply to Hillary.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/0...6pLid%3D622800

http://news.yahoo.com/whistleblower-...031606877.html

[Raz]

Re: Hilary's Emails

...
I don't care. I don't care that Colin Powell saved 0 e-mails from his time using a personal e-mail account as Secretary of State.

I just really don't care. Not at all.

You overlooked a key point within the article. I've highlighted it for you.

Colin Powell says he doesn’t have any of his State emails

By Adam Sneed - 3/8/15 11:08 AM EDT

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell says he doesn’t have any emails to turn over to the State Department.
Appearing on ABC’s “This Week” Sunday, Powell responded to revelations that he used a personal email account, rather than a government one, when he was in charge of the State Department. Questions about his email use arose last week when it was disclosed that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton used a personal email account during her tenure.



“I don’t have any to turn over. I did not keep a cache of them. I did not print them off. I do not have thousands of pages somewhere in my personal files,” Powell said. “A lot of the emails that came out of my personal account went into the State Department system. They were addressed to State Department employees and state.gov domain, but I don’t know if the servers in the State Department captured those or not. “

Powell said it would be inappropriate to comment on Clinton’s email use. The State Department’s policy on personal email accounts dates back to 2005, the year Powell left the administration.

“When I entered the State Department I found an antiquated system that had to be modernized and modernized quickly,” he said. “I started using [email] in order to get everybody to use it, so we could be a 21st-century institution and not a 19th-century [one]. But I retained none of those emails, and we are working with the State Department to see if there’s anything else they want to discuss with me about those emails.”


The emails he sent were all unclassified, mostly “benign,” he said, and probably not important even if they can be recovered.

In addition, I wouldn't compare Colin Powell to Hillary Clinton: Hillary is a pathological liar - she lies even when there is no need for her to hide something. If she told me the sky was blue I would have to walk outside and look for myself.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Hilary's Emails

In addition, I wouldn't compare Colin Powell to Hillary Clinton: Hillary is a pathological liar - she lies even when there is no need for her to hide something. If she told me the sky was blue I would have to walk outside and look for myself.

I suppose that's exactly what I mean, Raz. It's not the act of using a different e-mail address or a separate server that's really the problem here. That's the digital equivalent using a different return address on an envelope and having off-the-record meetings at an offsite location (normal people call this lunch). In general, that's not crazy behavior.

It's the trustworthiness of the person doing it that's the issue.

But that's not what will come out of this. What will come out of this is millions of dollars wasted on new e-mail procedures, archive procedures, forms, bureaucracy, e-mail inspector general spot-checking, and all the rest.

Hillary will not get in trouble. She will run for President in 2016. And the only things this outrage/uproar will do is add 10 seconds to one campaign ad for her opponent and add a pointless layer of federal bureaucracy in the name of transparency.