Elon Musk's Other Company

[don]

Re: Elon Musk & ....

i read that uber has been selling helicopter rides from manhattan to the hamptons for $800 a pop.
[a shared ride, i assume.]

An out-of-work, due to consolidation, airline pilot skill sharing . . . .

[GRG55]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

This is my impression, too. This SpaceX stuff is a sad joke. Didn't we in the U.S. get past rocket ships blowing up when lifting off in the 1960s? It seems many things in the U.S. are regressing, not progressing.

And for anyone who wants to point out the Challenger and Columbia blowups, they were caused by NASA bureaucracy and incompetence. While I cannot comment much on Challenger, it should have been obvious to everyone, especially NASA personnel, that Columbia had a very high risk of disaster during re-entry. During lift-off, a chunk of ice fell off one of the rockets and hit the underbelly of the shuttle. At the velocities involved, the size of the chunk of ice, and the worries in the past about the "zipper effect" on the shuttle tiles, NASA should have had at least a look-see on the underside of Columbia for any breach in the tile heat shield.

Let's suppose NASA had done that. And let's suppose they had observed and noted the missing tiles. Exactly what would they have been able to do about it before attempting to return Columbia to earth? Duct tape?

Perhaps cast Columbia adrift in space to free up the docking station, and bring the astronauts home on another shuttle?

It's interesting to see how perceptions of NASA and its competency have changed over time. This time next week I will once again be pointing the spinners east and heading to EAA Oshkosh. This year is the 45th anniversary of the Apollo 13 mission and Gene Kranz, Jim Lovell and Fred Haise will be giving an evening interview (and presumably answering numerous questions about the inconsistencies between the written accounts and the movie ).

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

Let's suppose NASA had done that. And let's suppose they had observed and noted the missing tiles. Exactly what would they have been able to do about it before attempting to return Columbia to earth? Duct tape?

Perhaps cast Columbia adrift in space to free up the docking station, and bring the astronauts home on another shuttle?

It's interesting to see how perceptions of NASA and its competency have changed over time. This time next week I will once again be pointing the spinners east and heading to EAA Oshkosh. This year is the 45th anniversary of the Apollo 13 mission and Gene Kranz, Jim Lovell and Fred Haise will be giving an evening interview (and presumably answering numerous questions about the inconsistencies between the written accounts and the movie ).

Now THAT would be worth the price of admission.

Those guys should get together with a cluster of other big brain problem solvers and write a book on rapid problem solving.

It would be a good companion book to the recent "Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World" by Stan McCrystal and Tantum Collins.

Fostering flexibility and innovation over the almost genetic indoctrination-like focus on efficiency.

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

Let's suppose NASA had done that. And let's suppose they had observed and noted the missing tiles. Exactly what would they have been able to do about it before attempting to return Columbia to earth? Duct tape?

Perhaps cast Columbia adrift in space to free up the docking station, and bring the astronauts home on another shuttle?

Yes, that is a reasonably good solution. It certainly seems better than letting everyone aboard the shuttle die. I don't know if repairs could have been effected with the Columbia in outer space. It may have been possible to send a second shuttle to the ISS with materials to attempt a repair. (Columbia would be perfectly fine orbiting in space and would not have to be abandoned just yet.) If the repairs looked good and passed various tests, try to take the Columbia back home with a minimal crew. Otherwise, either abandon it in space or destroy it.

By the way, I'm no rocket scientist but I used to work at the NASA Johnson Space Center. I'm not a total ignoramus when commenting about certain things about NASA.

It's interesting to see how perceptions of NASA and its competency have changed over time. This time next week I will once again be pointing the spinners east and heading to EAA Oshkosh. This year is the 45th anniversary of the Apollo 13 mission and Gene Kranz, Jim Lovell and Fred Haise will be giving an evening interview (and presumably answering numerous questions about the inconsistencies between the written accounts and the movie ).

I was very harsh about NASA's loss of its second of two failed Mars probes: the first one due to unknown reasons (which I felt was understandable due to never having landed anything on Mars before) and the second one due to use of the wrong units of measure (English versus metric) in some calculations. However, after the Europeans failed to land on Mars and Spirit and Opportunity performed magnificently, I was most complimentary to NASA. I stated to friends who used to work there that, were I POTUS, I would have increased NASA's budget after the success of the Mars rovers.

When it comes down to it, despite the crap that happens at NASA, the U.S. is still the only country on the planet that has sent men to the moon (and back) and is the only country that seems capable of landing exploration vehicles on Mars. I give them full credit for that.

[BK]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

+1
The madness of crowds....everyone seems to believe that a former software programmer, with little professional rocket experience , is a better bet than NASA.

The same crowds that think Elon Musk is a genius believe that Elon invented Tesla and who would trust a 40 yr old who claims he will travel to Mars in his life time, and we humans should colonize Mars.

Imagine if the CEO of Boeing said he was planning to travel to Mars...or imagine if the Oracle announced he was starting a 2nd company to revolutionize travel between American cities...called the Hyperloop.

All good conmen know to tell lies so sophisticated that they can't be proven false (even if a child could see the very premise of the story line was false).

Emperor Elon Musk has no clothes and some point in the future it will be apparent to everyone.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

+1
The madness of crowds....everyone seems to believe that a former software programmer, with little professional rocket experience , is a better bet than NASA.

The same crowds that think Elon Musk is a genius believe that Elon invented Tesla and who would trust a 40 yr old who claims he will travel to Mars in his life time, and we humans should colonize Mars.

Imagine if the CEO of Boeing said he was planning to travel to Mars...or imagine if the Oracle announced he was starting a 2nd company to revolutionize travel between American cities...called the Hyperloop.

All good conmen know to tell lies so sophisticated that they can't be proven false (even if a child could see the very premise of the story line was false).

Emperor Elon Musk has no clothes and some point in the future it will be apparent to everyone.

Remember that old Simpsons episode where Homer starts an internet 1.0 company. He calls it Compu-Hyper-Global-Mega-Net, and it does nothing, but Bill Gates shows up to buy him out.

Anyways, Elon already has the "hyperloop" and the "gigafactory." I'm waiting for the "compudrive" and the "globalspin" and the "extranet."

[GRG55]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

Yes, that is a reasonably good solution. It certainly seems better than letting everyone aboard the shuttle die. I don't know if repairs could have been effected with the Columbia in outer space. It may have been possible to send a second shuttle to the ISS with materials to attempt a repair. (Columbia would be perfectly fine orbiting in space and would not have to be abandoned just yet.) If the repairs looked good and passed various tests, try to take the Columbia back home with a minimal crew. Otherwise, either abandon it in space or destroy it.

By the way, I'm no rocket scientist but I used to work at the NASA Johnson Space Center. I'm not a total ignoramus when commenting about certain things about NASA.



I was very harsh about NASA's loss of its second of two failed Mars probes: the first one due to unknown reasons (which I felt was understandable due to never having landed anything on Mars before) and the second one due to use of the wrong units of measure (English versus metric) in some calculations. However, after the Europeans failed to land on Mars and Spirit and Opportunity performed magnificently, I was most complimentary to NASA. I stated to friends who used to work there that, were I POTUS, I would have increased NASA's budget after the success of the Mars rovers.

When it comes down to it, despite the crap that happens at NASA, the U.S. is still the only country on the planet that has sent men to the moon (and back) and is the only country that seems capable of landing exploration vehicles on Mars. I give them full credit for that.

Like all government agencies NASA is at least 51% political policy instrument. Funding is dependent on politicians, who invariably try to both influence and respond to public perception. It's not difficult to get down on an organization that gets pulled in so many directions, and needs to stay onside with Congress for funding - that can't ever have been much fun. Most of what NASA does is one-off and highly experimental; not exactly the same thing as flights in a heavily tested, certified Boeing airliner. Even you have made the direct link between the conventional definition of a "successful mission outcome" (don't crash the vehicle) and more funding. If that is the case, of course NASA is going to try fewer ambitious but riskier things and instead lean towards boring base hit singles in that circumstance.

At Oshkosh in 2013 I had the privilege of attending an evening panel discussion that included Apollo astronaut Charles Duke, shuttle astronauts Charlie Precourt & Chris Ferguson and Canadian Chris Hadfield, recently back from his mission converting the Space Station into a temporary recording studio. The stuff they talked about going on in NASA, including the Orion spacecraft program, kept everyone's attention. A lot more interesting than SpaceX launching payloads.

Gordon Cooper: You boys know what makes this bird go up? FUNDING makes this bird go up.
Gus Grissom: He's right. No bucks, no Buck Rogers