Elon Musk's Other Company

[don]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

I don't see companies seeing the big picture as much. No matter what, something is lost.

Indicative of our era, from NASA to Uber. Privatize, draw off the cream, and ride into your very own sunset (usually after your IPO). This constitutes entrepreneurship in our times.

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

From the software world of "beta versions" to the present mil.ind. complex corporate mentality of relocating entire divisions to different states in a way that makes it difficult for the senior staff to move to another state while they have teenagers in high school, achieving cutting cost by effectively cutting average salaries but at the same time, losing expertise, it is not a terrible surprise to see Space X struggling since they did not grow that sort of expertise organically.

My first 8 years in the real world of work (more than 20 years ago) was at Grumman Aerospace (in the 60's, home of the Lunar Module, Gulfstream corporate aircraft, the 70's the F-14 and in the 80's the X-29 are a few good examples of their works).

There were more than a few really geeky, nerdy, outcast-y senior engineers in the mix. They were necessary because they had knowledge that was essential to making these complex systems work. I wonder how folks like that survive in the current corporate workplace, do they get the ax or fade away? I don't see companies seeing the big picture as much. No matter what, something is lost.

This is my impression, too. This SpaceX stuff is a sad joke. Didn't we in the U.S. get past rocket ships blowing up when lifting off in the 1960s? It seems many things in the U.S. are regressing, not progressing.

And for anyone who wants to point out the Challenger and Columbia blowups, they were caused by NASA bureaucracy and incompetence. While I cannot comment much on Challenger, it should have been obvious to everyone, especially NASA personnel, that Columbia had a very high risk of disaster during re-entry. During lift-off, a chunk of ice fell off one of the rockets and hit the underbelly of the shuttle. At the velocities involved, the size of the chunk of ice, and the worries in the past about the "zipper effect" on the shuttle tiles, NASA should have had at least a look-see on the underside of Columbia for any breach in the tile heat shield.

[santafe2]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

And for anyone who wants to point out the Challenger and Columbia blowups, they were caused by NASA bureaucracy and incompetence. While I cannot comment much on Challenger, it should have been obvious to everyone, especially NASA personnel, that Columbia had a very high risk of disaster during re-entry. During lift-off, a chunk of ice fell off one of the rockets and hit the underbelly of the shuttle. At the velocities involved, the size of the chunk of ice, and the worries in the past about the "zipper effect" on the shuttle tiles, NASA should have had at least a look-see on the underside of Columbia for any breach in the tile heat shield.

No less an expert than Richard Feynman reviewed the Challenger incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOzoLdfWyKw

[dcarrigg]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

I have a friend who works at United Launch Alliance. A few years ago Musk could do no wrong and walked on water. The common wisdom from management was that everything that Musk builds is far superior than anything that can be turned out by ULA. Maybe some of the upper brass are having to re-evaluate perceptions.

ULA AtlasV launches might cost 25% more than SpaceX Falcon9 launches. But if it's the difference between 2% mission failure and 10% mission failure, it's probably money well spent. Of course that old Russian Soyuz is still maybe the most rock solid combination of safety, reliability, and price ever built. Turns out no matter how many Soviet Union jokes you make, they put out some quality tech 50 years ago at State Aviation Facility No. 1.

Meanwhile, 50 years later in USA, man named Elon makes billions for trying to reinvent wheel. What a country!

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

ULA AtlasV launches might cost 25% more than SpaceX Falcon9 launches. But if it's the difference between 2% mission failure and 10% mission failure, it's probably money well spent. Of course that old Russian Soyuz is still maybe the most rock solid combination of safety, reliability, and price ever built. Turns out no matter how many Soviet Union jokes you make, they put out some quality tech 50 years ago at State Aviation Facility No. 1.

Meanwhile, 50 years later in USA, man named Elon makes billions for trying to reinvent wheel. What a country!

That's what I'd like to know.

Could payload insurance costs wipeout launch cost savings?

[santafe2]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

Could payload insurance costs wipeout launch cost savings?

"He discovered, for example, that changing the seals on some readily available carwash valves made them good enough to be used with rocket fuel."

While clever, maybe that's not the best idea in the world. The rest of this story is here: http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/20...n-musk-spacex/

[don]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company

"He discovered, for example, that changing the seals on some readily available carwash valves made them good enough to be used with rocket fuel."

While clever, maybe that's not the best idea in the world. The rest of this story is here: http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/20...n-musk-spacex/

How much of this type of innovation is simply (cleverly?) catching the wave of decades of public research, design and practice?

[BK]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company - extreme fabrications

The car wash valve story is a perfect example of what happens when the world is in full blow "what a beautiful suit of clothes the naked emperor is wearing today".

As the Shuttle disaster demonstrated the seals are the hard part of the problem.

Mr Musk is an optical illusion promoted by Wall Street to make money on stock.

One day this will all be reveal for the scammer that Elon is.

[santafe2]

Re: Elon Musk's Other Company - extreme fabrications

As the Shuttle disaster demonstrated the seals are the hard part of the problem.

That's a bit macabre, but it's funny...the problem with the seals in the Space Shuttle was that they got hard when exposed to freezing temperatures.

[don]

Re: Elon Musk & ....

It was meant to be . . . .


Tesla Motors is one of several automakers planning to put a self-driving car on sale sometime in the next few years, and it already seems to have at least one big fan.

This person isn't a celebrity owner or safety advocate, but rather the CEO of preeminent ride-sharing company Uber.

If Tesla can build a fully-autonomous car by 2020, Uber CEO Travis Kalanick says his company would buy it. In fact, he'd buy every one Tesla builds.

Yes, all 500,000 electric cars Tesla expects to produce in that year, according to Forbes (via Charged EVs).

That boast comes not directly from Kalanick himself, but from Steve Jurvetson--an early Tesla investor and board member.

Jurvetson relayed what he claimed were Kalanick's remarks at the recent Top 10 Tech Trends dinner, hosted by the Churchill Club.

He claimed that autonomous driving could significantly reduce the number of taxis on New York City streets, and still allow patrons to get a ride within 30 seconds of hailing one.

rounding out the triumverate . . .

Former Vice President Al Gore and Mexican President Felipe Calderon proposed a $90 trillion plan to redesign every city on earth so that motor vehicles would become obsolete due to more dense populations.




Photo credit: World Economic Forum

Musk at the 2015 Tesla Motors Annual Shareholder Meeting

Travis Kalanick, C.E.O. and co-founder of Uber

[dcarrigg]

Re: Elon Musk & ....

Someone oughta tell Travis that 1) this ain't happening cheap, and 2) it blows up your whole business model if you actually have to buy the cars.

Then again, the hype wheel keeps on turnin.

[Southernguy]

Re: Elon Musk & ....

Today's hugely successful robber barons

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Elon Musk & ....

Someone oughta tell Travis that 1) this ain't happening cheap, and 2) it blows up your whole business model if you actually have to buy the cars.

Then again, the hype wheel keeps on turnin.

GRG55 can probably comment on the Eclipse 500 Tuckerplane vaporware from a number of years ago.

I recall most of the "firm orders" for that airplane were from pets.com like private jet rental service providers.

Those companies and their massive overinflated order books fell over in short order.

-----

I wonder when the capacity pawning economy intensifies if it will move up the chain to include private yachts and jets?

I wonder if Uber will be used to give rides in Gulfstream G-V's?

LOTS of capital expenditure in purchasing/leasing/insuring/storing fleets of vehicles.

Travis sounds like he wants to start a ground based airline.

You know what they say about making a fortune in the airline industry?

[dcarrigg]

Re: Elon Musk & ....

I wonder if Uber will be used to give rides in Gulfstream G-V's?

You're way too late for that. I have a buddy out in San Francisco who has been doing that for more than 5 years now. He has made millions.

It's so mainstream that even Warren Buffet has been in the game since '98.

The only difference in the new company my buddy's in is a bunch of back-end purchasing details (they don't ever own the aircraft -- way too much risk -- they only take fees off it for being middle men), and that there's a bit more geek-friendly app scheduling for people scared to use the phone to actually talk to someone.

Apparently there's none too few "Startup CEOs" with more money than brains who want to pretend they have a Gulfstream for a week to impress someone or other.

[jk]

Re: Elon Musk & ....

i read that uber has been selling helicopter rides from manhattan to the hamptons for $800 a pop.
[a shared ride, i assume.]