U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

[dcarrigg]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

Real Estate Agent. 6% commissions?

The average real estate agent makes about $40K. Technology will dramatically erode numbers of agents and commission rates.

Pharma sales rep = Be a Barbie or Ken doll with a BA in Communications that bribes - err "informs" - doctors into overprescribing drugs

Definitely need congressional action to keep costs reasonable, but not stifle new useful drugs.

Insurance agent = Be a middle man between actuary rates and customer rates. Pocket the difference. Helps to lie.

Need more consumer education here, plus there is competition with internet term offerings for life.

Financial advisor = Sell them whatever mutual fund has the highest fees and pays the highest commission out to meeeeeee!

Write your congressman to support the "Fiduciary Standard". If adopted these high commission vultures will be run off.

Bankers = Take the biggest slice of their earnings you can as often as you can and manipulate all prices up whenever possible

Internet banking is growing. Many are credit union members. Definitely need more consumer education here.

Journalists = Screw the truth. Make up lies. Sell them the lies they want to hear.

A diminishing breed. No one trusts, few listen.

Car Salesmen = Don't even try to sell them a car they want. Just make up lies, waste time, and talk about financing options.

Tesla model of no dealer is interesting. Other innovations on the way. Hard to break dealer support in state legislature.

Telemarketer = If I bother them hard enough, maybe they'll buy this crap

Another diminishing breed.

VT:

Your solution to private sector vultures is more consumer education, but you want to cut teachers...

Something here don't add up.

[vt]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

DC,

I don't want to cut teachers, but we can't keep adding to state and local current and future obligations. Teachers have to contribute more to pensions, they have to work longer (technology will help as well as good health), and we need to curb excess administration.

We can educate better with internet technologies plus more parent involvement.

What am I missing in the discrepancy of the middle income private worker and possibly better current income and much better benefits to all government workers, of which teacher are a large part but not all?
There are many, many of good private workers beside the 8 suspect groups you mention.

[dcarrigg]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

DC,

I don't want to cut teachers, but we can't keep adding to state and local current and future obligations. Teachers have to contribute more to pensions, they have to work longer (technology will help as well as good health), and we need to curb excess administration.

We can educate better with internet technologies plus more parent involvement.

What am I missing in the discrepancy of the middle income private worker and possibly better current income and much better benefits to all government workers, of which teacher are a large part but not all?
There are many, many of good private workers beside the 8 suspect groups you mention.

I'm saying you're being reductionist. There are scumbags and there are good people in every job. Doesn't matter which sector you work in. And we're all paying each others' salaries. Doesn't matter which sector you work in there either. Part of every on of your mortgage payments goes to someone working at an insurance company, someone working at a bank, a shareholder in a bank, a trader trading derivatives, a real estate agent, an originator, and so on and so forth. And part goes into escrow for property taxes. And part of that goes to teachers.

So what? Why draw the hard line in the sand? Why demand that teachers take a pay-cut and not anyone else in the chain that takes part of your monthly mortgage payment? Why is it okay to leach off interest and fees not okay to leach off taxes? I'm serious. What's the difference? You have no choice to opt out either way. Even if you rent, your rent payment is going to someone else's mortgage and so on and so forth.

Everything you buy is like this. It's all interconnected. And, especially with services, the value added is opaque. How much future GDP depends on the actions of any given teacher in any given year? Is it more net positive over the next 50 years than the net GDP created or destroyed by the derivatives trader bundling up your mortgage? Would it have been in 2006?

I will never understand the drive to be that level of partisan. I mean, hell, there were things even George W. did that benefitted me and mine. I have family whose lives are much easier thanks to Medicare Part D. It also added liabilities. So it goes. I have problems with lots of things Obama does. I also like some of them. As I've said here many times, there are many provisions of Dodd-Frank that I think are important, and without which I am certain the American people would be at far greater economic risk. It's not 100% good and 100% bad. It's not even 80/20.

So why the constant war drums against public sector workers? What's the difference between them taking a chunk of your paycheck and the insurance company taking a chunk of your paycheck? It's taken out either way.

But a better question might be: Why demand to slash middle class jobs and wages at all? Who benefits?

I wonder how long this can go on before teachers start demanding that real estate agents take a pay and benefits cut. Maybe start lobbying for a law cutting their commission in half and capping it. Hell, firemen could start lobbying states to cap commission compensation on all sales jobs. Maybe the middle class can just go to war with itself and see how fast we race towards official banana republic status. Wouldn't that be grand?

After all, austerity works. Just ask Greece...

But if you ask me, it's better to not spend your days trying to cut your friends and neighbors down...

[lektrode]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

....
After all, austerity works. Just ask Greece...

But if you ask me, it's better to not spend your days trying to cut your friends and neighbors down...

once upon a time, the political class worked for The Rest of US -

well.. sort of, anyway.

but from the moment that the .gov workforce was allowed to unionize?
(and we'll just skip over who it was that bypassed congress with his exec order)

the political class has steadily and inexorably worked AGAINST the best interests of The Rest of US

or that 'education for educations sake' - without regard for WHAT was being taught - has resulted in the fed.gov's showering of trillion$ onto the .edu sector that has all but made a typical college degree worthless or that the typical recipient of one now gets 10-20years worth of debt-enslaved bondage in exchange for the privelidge of making the professoriate along with the deadweight of 'higher education administration' comfortably ensconced in the 6figure salary club (and just fuhgetabout the athletic depts and their 7figure deals) - with gold-plated retirements to boot?

but i'll have to agree with you dc.
its NOT the individuals within the public sector workforce that is The Problem
their unions political machinations are a different story tho.

the REAL PROBLEM IS THOSE IN THE POLITICAL CLASS who sell out The Rest of US with over-promising ANYTHING it takes for their OWN RE-ELECTION (and we wont even get into where the money comes from and where it gets spent to maintain the status quo)

and to hell with the consequences, when its 'end justifies the means' politix

[vt]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

I can stop doing business with a private company that charges too much. I don't have to patronize a company that commits fraud.

As a consumer I have a choice of who I do business with.

With government I am forced to pay regardless of the cost, and see my taxes increased for much better benefits that the public gets. Plus I and my employer are forced to pay into a social security system that does not provide a good pension.

Why do you oppose larger employee contributions to their pension, and an extension of the time worked to pay for that pension? The public has already seen two years added onto the time to collect social security, plus numerous tax increases over the past 30 years. Don't be surprised if the age of receiving social security is raised to 70.

Why are public employees treated like royalty compared to the public who pays the bills. Don't be surprised if the age of receiving social security is raised to 70.

Yes, these same public employees also pay into social security (in some states they don't). but they get far,far more out. At some point we reach a point where states and cities cannot afford these unfunded obligations.

http://www.statebudgetsolutions.org/...it-47-trillion

It may get even worse when retiring and non retiring workers move to better managed states to flee the higher taxes in the most unfunded states.

[lektrode]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

I can stop doing business with a private company that charges too much. I don't have to patronize a company that commits fraud.

As a consumer I have a choice of who I do business with.....
....
It may get even worse when retiring and non retiring workers move to better managed states to flee the higher taxes in the most unfunded states.

bingo!

[dcarrigg]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

I can stop doing business with a private company that charges too much. I don't have to patronize a company that commits fraud.

As a consumer I have a choice of who I do business with.

With government I am forced to pay regardless of the cost, and see my taxes increased for much better benefits that the public gets. Plus I and my employer are forced to pay into a social security system that does not provide a good pension.

Why do you oppose larger employee contributions to their pension, and an extension of the time worked to pay for that pension? The public has already seen two years added onto the time to collect social security, plus numerous tax increases over the past 30 years. Don't be surprised if the age of receiving social security is raised to 70.

Why are public employees treated like royalty compared to the public who pays the bills. Don't be surprised if the age of receiving social security is raised to 70.

Yes, these same public employees also pay into social security (in some states they don't). but they get far,far more out. At some point we reach a point where states and cities cannot afford these unfunded obligations.

http://www.statebudgetsolutions.org/...it-47-trillion

It may get even worse when retiring and non retiring workers move to better managed states to flee the higher taxes in the most unfunded states.

Really? You believe have a choice in who you do business with?

You get to choose who bundles your mortgage and who it gets sold to? They consulted you?

How about your student loan? Did you get to pick which company had it? Or did it get sold off too?

An internet company never made you click through a bunch of terms and conditions you cannot read or make sense of? Did you read who they were selling your data to? Did they even disclose it? Or did the terms say they didn't have to? Do you really get a choice to go around google and facebook? Can you do it 100% of the time?

Did you choose Mac or Windoze? Did you choose a Dell or a Mac or an HP or a Sony or a Toshiba. What if they were all actually manufactured at Foxconn and assembled at Quanta in Tawain. Can you really stop doing business with these companies you've never heard of? What a world of choice!

Did a loan company ever make you sign a pile of pages that are incomprehensible? Or a credit card company? Do you think they don't sell your debt behind your back? Ever wake up to find out you're supposed to pay your bill to some new company you've never heard of?

You ever move to a new place off the grid to find out there was only 1 propane company near by and they had 2 year minimum sign-up terms and wouldn't specify a rate? But is living without heat and hot water really a choice in the cold, cold hills?

How much choice do you get for cable companies? Electric companies? Cell phone companies? Trash companies? Do you live in a magic free market utopia where natural monopolies don't exist?

How about this one: Can you drive a car and never buy gas from Exxon Mobil? Is it even an option?

Can you live your life and shop in the 21st century and never force the store owner to give 3.5% of your transaction to Visa or Mastercard? Really, is it possible you've never bought stuff with a credit or a debit card? Or will you tell me you use AmEx or Discover. 4 choices. Wow!

Are you watching a channel owned by Viacom, or Time Warner, or Fox, or Disney or General Electric? There's no other choice. 5 this time. Horray!

Can you even eat all your food without Monsanto getting in there somehow? A seed, a pesticide, something - you know they're involved. 80% of corn is round-up-ready, and there's corn in everything - check a label out - xanthan gum, corn syrup, corn meal, high fructose xxxx - all Monsanto.

Luxottica makes all your sunglasses -Oakley, Ray-Ban, Revo, Vogue, DKNY, Prada, BVLGARI - it's all them. Doesn't matter how they're branded.

Marshalls, TJ Maxx, Homegoods, Bob's Stores, BJ's Wholesale - all the same TJX.

Eukanuba, Iams, Nutro, Hy-Vee, Triumph or Priority - all the same company and the same factory - Menu Foods for your cat.

At least you have choice in music right? You can listen to your Brittany Spears or your Backstreet Boys or your N'Sync or Kelly Clarkson or Katy Perry while you stroll down the isles of your supermarket. Oh! Crap! Turns out all their songs were written by the same guy. Max Martin. Hope you signed up to do business with him.

Speaking of the supermarket, are you going to Shaws? Or star market? Or Acme? Or Jewel-Osco? Or Safeway? Or Carrs? Or how about Pavillions? Randalls? Tom Thumbs? Dominick's? Vons? It's all owned by Cerberus Capital Management - the guys who make your Jeeps and Dodge trucks...

In fact, besides supermarkets and Chrysler, Cerberus also owns Caritas Christi hospitals, divisions of AT&T, Bayer, and GlaxoSmithKlein, Accurate metal solutions, RG Steel, Bushmaster, Remington, and Marlin guns (among others), 3i, Dyncorp, Silverleaf Resorts, Panavision, Georgia Pacific for all your paper towels and toilet paper and paper cups and plates, IAP and Johnson Controls for your thermostats and furnaces, Mervyn's department stores, most car rental companies - including Alamo, National, and Enterprise, North American Bus industries, Blue Bird Bus Corp, Optima, New Flyer, and the North American Bus Manufacturing Company, 51% of GMAC finance/mortgages, Formica plastics, etc etc.

And it's not the only group like this.

Good luck not doing business with Cerberus Capital.

Or other wide-ranging conglomerates like Berkshire Hathaway - Geico Insurance, Dairy Queen, Helzberg Diamonds, Jordan's Furniture, Shaw Industries, Star Furniture, Charter Brokerage, Chippewa Boots, HH Brown Shoes, Justin, Nacoma, Tony Lama, Medpro Health Insurance, McLane (the guys who distribute all your beer and wine), The Pampered Chef, Fruit of the Loom (they even own your underwear), US Boat, Brooks, almost all the wire and copper tubing coming into the HVAC business, 71 major newspapers in all 50 states, Benjamin Moore Paints, Lubrizol (they make all your car's fluids and a good chunk of shampoos and stuff), Clayton Homes, RC Willey Home Furnishings - screw it...too many to list. You get the idea.

What you have is not consumer choice, VT.

It's the illusion of consumer choice.

It's one company branding and re-branding the same damn thing from the same damn factory 300 different ways. But in the end, no matter what choice you make, you're still doing business with that one company.

You have more choice in choosing which state to live in (50 choices), or which county to live in within a state, or which town to live in within that county than you have a choice with whom you do business in the private sector.

"Free market choice" is a myth the real bosses of this country made up to sell suckers on the idea of giving them even more power.

[vt]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

DC, I respect your views and much of what you say has import.

But I don't feel controlled by the private sector, nor feel any lack of choice. There is a whole world of goods and services with an ever changing array of ideas.

Cable TV controlling what I watch? No way:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/fa...arty.html?_r=0

I have an infinite internet to show me many ways to learn, be entertained, and be creative.

I am not afraid of a few corporations that try to control an industry because they are sowing the seeds of their own destruction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

I will not accept a controlling government trying to limit my choices, trying to censor viewpoints. Free societies don't do this.

I will not accept a cult of personality such as Chavez, Castro, Putin, or Bush-Clinton. Nor a Republican or Democrat party.
Change is coming and will always prevail.

[dcarrigg]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

DC, I respect your views and much of what you say has import.

But I don't feel controlled by the private sector, nor feel any lack of choice. There is a whole world of goods and services with an ever changing array of ideas.

Cable TV controlling what I watch? No way:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/fa...arty.html?_r=0

I have an infinite internet to show me many ways to learn, be entertained, and be creative.

I will not accept a controlling government trying to limit my choices, trying to censor viewpoints. Free societies don't do this.

Even if you decide not to pay for Cable TV, who are you paying for internet access? They get you either way.

You don't feel controlled by the private sector, because the people who control it designed it not to feel that way.

[don]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

Nice job, dcarrig, on our monopoly reality.

[vt]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

Monopoly?! You guys have me in stitches.

Sure all large societies have consolidation, but large companies need many smaller enterprises to supply them.

The problem is a monopoly prone government which uses donor money to see who gets the goods from the taxpayer.

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/c...?cid=N00009638

No bankers in jail! a leadership with an enemies list Nixon would be envious of.

We do have large companies aided and abetted by this command and control administration that smells more and more like a Rube Goldberg combination of fascism, socialism, and Chinese mercantilism.

[santafe2]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

With government I am forced to pay regardless of the cost...

vt, you need a few boys from K Street on your payroll, and you have to buy a few congress people....then you'll be living the high life. No taxes for you, only for the little people...

[Milton Kuo]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

vt, you need a few boys from K Street on your payroll, and you have to buy a few congress people....then you'll be living the high life. No taxes for you, only for the little people...

The problem with property taxes is that it is a form of monopoly that is far, far more difficult and painful to avoid than some of the other taxes or frictional costs that dcarrigg mentioned. In many places I've been looking at, the rate of increase in property taxes is far greater than the rate of increase in wages. While I do realize that services cost money and have no quarrel paying taxes to support those services, if we allow that wages for public workers will not be reduced (which I also support), can we at least keep them in line with the gains that private sector workers get?

The Federal Reserve has done its part to juice housing prices but wages have not even come close to keeping up. What frustrates me tremendously is that with this windfall in revenue from property taxes, the government spends every penny of it and needs yet more.

[dcarrigg]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

Or other wide-ranging conglomerates like Berkshire Hathaway - Geico Insurance, Dairy Queen, Helzberg Diamonds, Jordan's Furniture, Shaw Industries, Star Furniture, Charter Brokerage, Chippewa Boots, HH Brown Shoes, Justin, Nacoma, Tony Lama, Medpro Health Insurance, McLane (the guys who distribute all your beer and wine), The Pampered Chef, Fruit of the Loom (they even own your underwear), US Boat, Brooks, almost all the wire and copper tubing coming into the HVAC business, 71 major newspapers in all 50 states, Benjamin Moore Paints, Lubrizol (they make all your car's fluids and a good chunk of shampoos and stuff), Clayton Homes, RC Willey Home Furnishings - screw it...too many to list. You get the idea.

What you have is not consumer choice, VT.

It's the illusion of consumer choice.

BTW: Buffet's smashing Kraft and Heinz together today. Now BH not only is the largest shareholder in Coke, but they've got your Heinz ketchup, Kraft mac 'n cheese, A1 steak sauce, Athenos yoghurt, claussen pickels, cheez wiz, cool whip, capri sun, country time, crystal light, jell-o, cracker barrel cheese, gevalia coffee, kool-aid, jet-puffed marshmallows, kraft mayo, dressings, and cheese, lunchables, maxwell house coffee, miracle whip, oscar mayer hotdogs and meats, mio, philadelphia creme cheeses, planters nuts, polly-o, stove top stuffing, velveeta, tassimo, classico pasta sauces, lea & perrins steak sauce, bagel bites, TGI Fridays, delimex, watties, plasmon, and nurture baby foods, lunchables, weight watchers...etc...etc...

They even advertise 98% penetration into all North American households with this merger alone (never mind Buffet's other brands).

Welcome to consumer choice, VT.

This is what it looks like:

[lektrode]

Re: U.S. In Worse Fiscal Shape Than Greece?

BTW: Buffet's smashing Kraft and Heinz together today. ...
They even advertise 98% penetration into all North American households with this merger alone (never mind Buffet's other brands).

guess it all depends on what supermarket one frequents, eh dc?

i can think of several that DONT + WONT stock any of those brands (not that i can afford to shop at em)

so yes, we do STILL have consumer choice - even tho it feels more and more like we dont.