The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

[verdo]

I'm sorry but, whether you agree or disagree with the president/prime minister of your country is one thing, but for hells sake...what kind of crap is this? One cannot debate policy with your elected leader at home without having to send open letters to your enemies abroad? Last i checked, Iran was a de facto enemy of the USA. You don't go making memos to foreign leaders like this in the middle of negotiations. Debate with your leaders at home, in the congressional chambers, but the memo was unnecessary. Even if you disagree with Obama's move here, this memo does nothing but make your country look like a divided mess, nor does it help tensions between the USA and Iran in any way. No one needs "reminding" of what a next administration might do to these negotiations...i mean we don't all live under a rock. I just can't fathom what good a letter like this does for relations or the image of the country

Huffington Post

A group of 47 Republican senators has written an open letter to Iran's leaders warning them that any nuclear deal they sign with President Barack Obama's administration won't last after Obama leaves office.

Their action is a brazen, breathtaking attempt to sabotage U.S. foreign policy and stampede America into another war in the Middle East.
While U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is trying to negotiate the most critical elements of a deal to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons and avoid war, the Republicans are actively trying to undermine his efforts to get a deal.
Can you imagine the reaction if members of Congress had sent a similar letter to the Soviets urging them not to sign an arms control agreement because the United States would not keep our end of the bargain?
If the Iranians are unwilling to sign a verifiable agreement with the international community to limit the application of their nuclear know-how to peaceful purposes, the U.S. will be left with two horrible options: a nuclear Iran or war.
Unbelievably, these GOP senators are actively discouraging Iran from signing such a deal by arguing that the United States cannot be trusted to keep up our end. That is shocking. It's like someone interfering with negotiations being conducted by a hostage negotiator by trying to convince a hostage taker not to surrender because he will shoot him anyway.

Coverage by the young turks

[don]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

Reminds me of Weimar's final daze before you know who . . . . the federal gov. in chaos.

[lektrode]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

Reminds me of Weimar's final daze before you know who . . . . the federal gov. in chaos.

and if that dont do it, this one oughta:

(read: the next TRILLION DOLLAR VOTE-BUY)

Next Mega-Bailout On Deck: White House Studying "New Bankruptcy Options" For Student-Loan Borrowers

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/10/2015 - 12:18 It appears that just as the administration is finally figuring out what HFT is, it also decided to take a look at the charts above and has made a decision: the next bailout is about to be unveiled, and it will involve a "streamlined" bankruptcy law allowing students to discharge their student debt.


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Rage Of The Machines



By Turd Ferguson | Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 11:10 am
This is just madness. We have completely relinquished control to the WOPRs and these mindless robots are going to destroy what's left of the financial "markets".

[dcarrigg]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

I actually think it's bad for the institution of the Senate. Shows how toothless and weak it is. If they had the votes to pass a bill tomorrow, they would. They don't. So now they're sending out meaningless memos. What's next? A prank phone call to the Ayatollah?

Huge mistake #1: Effectively ending the seniority system. Too many young bucks gunning for the oval office, not enough statesmen.
Huge mistake #2: Effectively ending earmarks. No way to trade favors for your home district in a rational system to get things to pass.
Huge mistake #3: Effectively neutering local party power in conventions. Now it's just a bought and paid for media circus into a primary.

Add up 1 + 2 + 3 and you get a recipe for dysfunction, pointless showboating, legislative logjams, and single-digit approval ratings.

[vt]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

You guys forget the 7 times Democrats have done the same type of thing:

BEN SHAPIRO10 Mar 2015259

On Monday, 47 United States Senators sent an open letter to the Iranian regime warning that any deal cut by President Obama could be revoked by Congress.

“The next president,” the letter stated, “could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen, and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time.”

This sent the Obama administration and its media allies into a tizzy of rage. After all, it is one thing for the president of the United States to send secret love letters to the ayatollahs; it is quite another for GOP members of the Senate to warn the Iranians that they will not abide by a bad deal.

Vice President Joe Biden said that the Republican letter was “beneath the dignity of an institution I revere,” adding, “In thirty-six years in the United States Senate, I cannot recall another instance in which Senators wrote directly to advise another country – much less a longtime foreign adversary – that the President does not have the constitutional authority to reach a meaningful understanding with them.” Josh Earnest of the White House said that the letter was “a continuation of a partisan strategy to undermine the president’s ability to conduct foreign policy and advance our national security interests around the globe.”

The New York Daily News headlined its front page “traitors.”

Jon Lovett, former White House speechwriter and current failed TV sitcom writer,tweeted, “SHAME is the best medicine for these 47 Republicans. And they shall have it!” Other Democrats in the media said that Republicans were pushing war as an alternative to peace.

This is sheer nonsense. It was the Obama administration that suggested no deal was better than a bad deal. But given the false dichotomy between any deal and war, that suggestion was obviously a ruse.

Nonetheless, several Republicans declined to sign. Senator Bob Corker (R-TN), ever one to solicit the love of the mainstream media, said he wouldn’t sign onto the letter because “it was probably not something that was going to be helpful in that effort, for me to be involved in it.” Senator Susan Collins (R-ME) also declined to sign on, as did Senator Jeff Flake (R-AZ), who said that the letter was not “necessary.” Others who did not sign included Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Dan Coats (R-IN), Thad Cochran (R-MS), and Lisa Murkowski (R-AK).

Democrats have said that the letter may violate the Logan Act, which states:

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Legally speaking, charges under the Logan Act would be unwarranted. The Logan Act has never actually been used for prosecution, nor has its Constitutionality been seriously reviewed in two hundred years.

And if Republicans supposedly violated the Logan Act, so did these Democrats:

Senators John Sparkman (D-AL) and George McGovern (D-SD). The two Senators visited Cuba and met with government actors there in 1975. They said that they did not act on behalf of the United States, so the State Department ignored their activity.

Senator Teddy Kennedy (D-MA). In 1983, Teddy Kennedy sent emissaries to the Soviets to undermine Ronald Reagan’s foreign policy. According to a memo finally released in 1991 from head of the KGB Victor Chebrikov to then-Soviet leader Yuri Andropov:

On 9-10 May of this year, Sen. Edward Kennedy’s close friend and trusted confidant [John] Tunney was in Moscow. The senator charged Tunney to convey the following message, through confidential contacts, to the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Y. Andropov.

What was the message? That Teddy would help stifle Reagan’s anti-Soviet foreign policy if the Soviets would help Teddy run against Reagan in 1984. Kennedy offered to visit Moscow to “arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they may be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA.” Then he said that he would set up interviews with Andropov in the United States. “Kennedy and his friends will bring about suitable steps to have representatives of the largest television companies in the USA contact Y.V. Andropov for an invitation to Moscow for the interviews…Like other rational people, [Kennedy] is very troubled by the current state of Soviet-American relations,” the letter explained. The memo concluded:

Tunney remarked that the senator wants to run for president in 1988. Kennedy does not discount that during the 1984 campaign, the Democratic Party may officially turn to him to lead the fight against the Republicans and elect their candidate president.

House Speaker Jim Wright (D-TX). In 1984, 10 Democrats sent a letter to Daniel Ortega Saavedra, the head of the military dictatorship in Nicaragua, praising Saavedra for “taking steps to open up the political process in your country.” House Speaker Jim Wright signed the letter.

In 1987, Wright worked out a deal to bring Ortega to the United States to visit with lawmakers. As The New York Times reported:

There were times when the White House seemed left out of the peace process, uninformed, irritated. ”We don’t have any idea what’s going on,” an Administration official said Thursday. And there was a bizarre atmosphere to the motion and commotion: the leftist Mr. Ortega, one of President Reagan’s arch enemies, heads a Government that the Administration has been trying to overthrow by helping to finance a war that has killed thousands of Nicaraguans on both sides. Yet he was freely moving around Washington, visiting Mr. Wright in his Capitol Hill office, arguing his case in Congress and at heavily covered televised news conferences. He criticized President Reagan; he recalled that the United States, whose troops intervened in Nicaragua several times between 1909 and 1933, had supported the Somoza family dictatorship which lasted for 43 years until the Sandinistas overthrew it in 1979.

Ortega then sat next to Wright as he presented a “detailed cease-fire proposal.” The New York Times said, “Mr. Ortega seemed delighted to turn to Mr. Wright.”

Senator John Kerry (D-MA). Kerry jumped into the pro-Sandanista pool himself in 1985, when he traveled to Nicaragua to negotiate with the regime. He wasn’t alone; Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) joined him. The Christian Science Monitor reported that the two senators “brought back word that Mr. Ortega would be willing to accept a cease-fire if Congress rejected aid to the rebels…That week the House initially voted down aid to the contras, and Mr. Ortega made an immediate trip to Moscow.” Kerry then shilled on behalf of the Ortega government:

We are still trying to overthrow the politics of another country in contravention of international law, against the Organization of American States charter. We negotiated with North Vietnam. Why can we not negotiate with a country smaller than North Carolina and with half the population of Massachusetts? It’s beyond me. And the reason is that they just want to get rid of them [the Sandinistas], they want to throw them out, they don’t want to talk to them.

Representatives Jim McDermott (D-WA), David Bonior (D-MI), and Mike Thompson (D-CA). In 2002, the three Congressmen visited Baghdad to play defense for Saddam Hussein’s regime. There, McDermott laid the groundwork for the Democratic Party’s later rip on President George W. Bush, stating, “the president of the United States will lie to the American people in order to get us into this war.” McDermott, along with his colleagues, suggested that the American administration give the Iraqi regime “due process” and “take the Iraqis on their face value.” Bonior said openly he was acting on behalf of the government:

The purpose of our trip was to make it very clear, as I said in my opening statement, to the officials in Iraq how serious we–the United States is about going to war and that they will have war unless these inspections are allowed to go unconditionally and unfettered and open. And that was our point. And that was in the best interest of not only Iraq, but the American citizens and our troops. And that’s what we were emphasizing. That was our primary concern–that and looking at the humanitarian situation.

Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WV). In 2002, Rockefeller told Fox News’ Chris Wallace, “I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11.” That would have given Saddam Hussein fourteen months in which to prepare for war.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). In April 2007, as the Bush administration pursued pressure against Syrian dictator Bashar Assad, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi went to visit him. There, according to The New York Times, the two “discussed a variety of Middle Eastern issues, including the situations in Iraq and Lebanon and the prospect of peace talks between Syria and Israel.” Pelosi was accompanied by Reps. Henry Waxman (D-CA), Tom Lantos (D-CA), Louise M. Slaughter (D-NY), Nick J. Rahall II (D-WV), and Keith Ellison (D-MN). Zaid Haider, Damascus bureau chief for Al Safir, reportedly said, ‘There is a feeling now that change is going on in American policy – even if it’s being led by the opposition.”

The Constitution of the United States delegates commander-in-chief power to the president of the United States. Section 2 clearly states, “He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur…” As Professor Jack Goldsmith of Harvard Law School writes,Senators have a good argument that “the President lacks the authority under the U.S. Constitution to negotiate a pure Executive agreement in this context. Almost all major arms control agreements have been made as treaties that needed Senate consent, and the one major exception, the Salt I treaty, was a congressional-executive agreement.”

One who might agree: former Senator Joe Biden, whose White House profile explains, “then-Senator Biden played a pivotal role in shaping US foreign policy.” Among other elements of that role: decrying President George W. Bush’s surge in Iraq as “a tragic mistake” and vowing, “I will do everything in my power to stop it.” As Tom Cotton said this morning, “If Joe Biden respects the dignity of the institution of the Senate, he should be insisting that the President submit any deal to approval of the Senate, which is exactly what he did on numerous deals during his time in Senate.

[dcarrigg]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

Where do you get this stuff, vt? Ted Kennedy's shilling against Reagan for Yuri Andropov?

Ortega - the dude running Nicaragua we have a free trade deal with now - is some scary enemy of the state?

And Rockefeller warned Sadaam in 2002? The same Rockefeller that gave this warmongering speech full of lies on October 10th 2002?

John Sparkman - a rather conservative man who was elected to the House of Representatives from the state of Alabama in 1936 and served as a legislator from that state until 1978 - was a commie Cuba sympathizer? Really?

I mean, every one of these men have faults. Lots of stuff to ding them on. Easy to ding Sparkman now on his stance against racial integration. Easy to ding Rockefeller for talking about imminent threat of Sadaam's nuclear program in 2002. Easy to ding Ted Kennedy for 10,000 things, Chappaquiddick chief among them.

But this story is just twisted, wrong, off, nuts.

Don't get me wrong, the institutional stuff I was complaining about isn't party specific. No matter which party's in charge of the Senate, it's a problem.

But man, that story is just so bad and wrong. I could get better sourced material from the rantings of a mad hobo.

[vt]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

I question the Sparkman reference too. Ok with your take on Ortega.

But Nancy Pelosi to Syria? That is definitely beyond the pale. This is as ridiculous as anything the Republicans have done, and far less critical

The House has nothing to do with treaties; the Senate certainly does.

The Republican letter to Iran may be audacious, but the American people don't want to see the Ayatollahs get nukes. Neither do other moderate Arab neighbors.
Any leadership that states they want to wipe a neighboring state off the face of the earth is not rational.

Don't forget that 13 Democrat Senators want to see any agreement approved by the Senate. This is not just a Republican sideshow, and it is not a minor issue.

[dcarrigg]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

Yeah. The dysfunction's modern. Pelosi's move was bad - although at least she was very clear in saying publically that she did not intend to counter the administration's foreign policy - regardless of whether that statement was true. And, lest we forget, 3 Republican legislators went to visit Assad along with her - Robert Aderholt of Alabama, Joe Pitts of Pennsylvania and Frank Wolf of Virginia.

Both cases are prime examples of dysfunction. A weak and ineffectual legislature. Bad coordination with the executive.

Pointless letters and visits don't serve to do much. Not going to protect people from anything. If there's really 13 Senators from the Dems in on this, they'd have a veto-proof majority, and they could pass whatever bill they wanted.

They don't have the votes, so they're acting out like children.

[vt]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

A veto will be very difficult to get.

But don't forget when the public kept Obama from attacking Syria:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...america-public

It's entirely possible that the public could stop a deal with Iran that allowed them to get nukes.

[astonas]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

It's entirely possible that the public could stop a deal with Iran that allowed them to get nukes.

Hogwash! This isn't about avoiding a war, this is about starting one, based on even more ignorance than previous ones. It is exactly the opposite scenario of Syria!

Neither the Senate nor the public have access to the delicate information regarding Iran's nuclear readiness ramp-up rates that the negotiators do. And the current state of negotiations is certainly not known by anyone but the negotiators, since it is by definition in flux. To think that the Senators, much less the general public, knows enough to even have an informed opinion on the viability of the (still not fixed!) talks is just plain ridiculous. The polls will carry no weight with anyone who thinks clearly, and neither should the Senate's opinion carry any weight on this.

There is a reason that the executive branch gets to do foreign policy. It isn't just an arbitrary demarcation line. The intelligence agencies report to it, not the Senate (which only provides loose oversight through a restricted committee). And the Senators not only don't have an alternative plan, they cannot have any knowledge of what the current plan on the table is. So to think that they could possibly have a valid perspective on the subtle evaluation of its ability to achieve the nonproliferation objective stretches credulity to well beyond the breaking point.

Let's be clear. This letter represents the necessarily uninformed opinion of people who want to open the pockets of Sheldon Adelson and like-minded donors before their next campaign by actively sabotaging United States nonproliferation interests in the Middle East, from a position of total ignorance of the necessary facts. Their hope is to replace any considered policy (regardless of un-assessable viability) with the fait accompli of active war.

The only way one can endorse this is by believing that ignorance is the best basis for conducting foreign policy, and for entering foreign wars. Some inane elected officials actually do loudly espouse exactly such reverence for explicit ignorance on numerous issues, but elementary logic demands that these should be regarded in all cases as self-discrediting.

[astonas]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

Iran Offers to Mediate Talks Between Republicans and Obama

It's quite sad, really. While the above piece is satire, this letter does make it very hard to imagine an enemy that the signatories wouldn't rather get in bed with, than work with Obama in any way. I'm now genuinely asking myself the question: If they could work out a way to make it look like the blame lay with the President, would they invite armed and avowed terrorists into Washington D.C?

Their track record does not look good. I predict that this letter will wind up being career-limiting for any signatory with later presidential ambitions. The political middle will be entirely inaccessible to them in any general election, so extreme is this action.

[Woodsman]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

Where do you get this stuff, vt?...

From "independent" sources like Breitbart.com? The piece was pushed out by right-wing extremist Ben Shapiro, protege of David Horowitz.

Ben is the author of such groundbreaking work as "Primetime Propaganda: The True Hollywood Story of How the Left Took Over Your TV." Here he warns American Fox News viewers of the dangers posed by leftist propaganda in "Sesame Street" and "Happy Days" and the disturbing pro-pacifist orientation of "M*A*S*H."

Other titles include:

Brainwashed: How Universities Indoctrinate America's Youth
The People vs. Barack Obama: The Criminal Case Against the Obama Administration

A known fabulist, Shapiro invents stories out of whole cloth based rumor and innuendo. Take the time he accused Sen. Hegel of accepting donations from a group named "Friends of Hamas." Only no such group existed outside the confines of his imagination.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/secre...ends-of-hamas/
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20..._actually.html

Ben is also a proud Israel First guy who sided with terrorist and racist Meir Kahane on the forced expulsion of Palestinians from the West Bank. Upon discovering that he held the same moral space as a racist terrorist, he later called his own proposal "inhumane and impractical".

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...israel/273349/

And in classic neocon "lets you and him fight" style, Ben was a big supporter of the Iraq War. But instead of enlisting following his graduation, he chose to fight the war on terror (and The Left) by enrolling in Harvard Law School.

DC, I think it's a bit harsh to compare innocent mad hobos with the likes of this guy, a paid propagandist for Likud and David Horowitz.

[vt]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

Let it go my friend.

This has nothing to do with the source; it's about a few facts.

There was a reasonable point raised about the GOP letter to Iran. All I was trying to show was that Democrats had at times done similar "meddling" in foreign matters, especially Nancy Pelosi's trip to Syria (yes a few Republicans were there)

It is the Senate's duty to approve treaties, and this President is possibly leaving them out.

I was trying to show both sides of the issue and want to cite a source. Since the main street press seems to avoid facts at times, this is the best I could find that related to the situation.

The liberal and conservative press are both biased, both hide facts, both slant. I don't recall you showing both sides of an issue, though I may be wrong.

Please don't go into a rant to someone simply trying to add to the discussion.

[Woodsman]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

Let it go my friend...

When there's blood in the water, the sharks come out.

[vt]

Re: The most ridiculous thing I've seen the GOP do in my lifetime

I'll see your shark and raise it: