Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

[touchring]

Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

It is the Sword of Damocles, hanging over Greece's head. Without this Sword of Damocles, the EU could never effect the changes that are needed to occur in Greece. The local political power structure, both left and right wing, are incapable. One side wants to steer Greece into a Marxist past that no longer exists for many countries, the other side wants to continue the game of patronage and graft. And under both scenarios, property rights suffer and stability in the law is practically non existent.

Sounds pretty much like what happened when the British took power from the Indian rajas a couple of centuries ago. The Indian Rajas get to keep their palaces and titles while the British govern because they had better laws and better at governing. Of course, we know what happened subsequently.

Today, India is free from the British, speak English, play cricket, adopted the English political system and many English customs, but has India become as good as Britain?

[gnk]

Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

This is probably one of the best articles I have seen lately when it comes to describing the Greek problem:

Tsipras Needs More Than Chavez Touch

“What Greece needs isn’t an IMF bailout program but a World Bank-style state-building program,” a senior official warned. “Greece doesn’t have a functioning public administration. We’re going to have to build one.”

In my opinion, if Europe succeeds with Greece, which it likely will, the road to EU Federalization gets much smoother.

[Woodsman]

Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

This is probably one of the best articles I have seen lately when it comes to describing the Greek problem:

Tsipras Needs More Than Chavez Touch

“What Greece needs isn’t an IMF bailout program but a World Bank-style state-building program,” a senior official warned. “Greece doesn’t have a functioning public administration. We’re going to have to build one.”

In my opinion, if Europe succeeds with Greece, which it likely will, the road to EU Federalization gets much smoother.

Chavez touch?

I wonder? Is this just red meat for right wing WSJ readers or is it a not so veiled threat that Tsirpas should look forward to coups, murder attempts and economic warfare if he strays too far off script?

I haven't made the effort to see the electoral breakdown from Greece. Does T's support come from a similar demographic as Chavez? Is it as strong as was Chavez's support?

(In his first run) "Chávez won the election with 56.20% of the vote. Salas Römer came second, with 39.97%, while the other candidates, including Irene Sáez and Alfaro Ucero, gained only tiny proportions of the vote.^[125][151] Academic analysis of the election showed that Chávez's support had come primarily from the country's poor and the "disenchanted middle class", whose standard of living had decreased rapidly in the previous decade,^[152] although at the same time much of the middle and upper class vote had instead gone to Salas Römer..."

(In his second run) "Although some of his supporters feared that he had alienated those in the middle class and the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy who had formerly supported him, Chávez was re-elected with 59.76% of the vote (the equivalent of 3,757,000 people), a larger majority than his 1998 electoral victory,^[197][198] again primarily receiving his support from the poorer sectors of Venezuelan society..."^[199]

(In his third run) "In the presidential election of December 2006, which saw a 74% voter turnout, Chávez was once more elected, this time with 63% of the vote, beating his closest challenger Manuel Rosales, who conceded his loss.^[233] The election was certified as being free and legitimate by the Organization of American States (OAS) and the Carter Center."^{[236][237][238]}

(In his last run) "On 7 October 2012, Chávez won election as president for a fourth time, and for the third time he won a six years term. He defeated Henrique Capriles with 54% of the votes versus 45% for Capriles, which was a lower victory margin than in his previous presidential wins, in the 2012 Venezuelan presidential election^[1][263] Turnout in the election was an unheard-of 80%, testifying that the election was hotly contested between the two candidates.^[264] There was significant support for Chávez amongst the Venezuelan lower class. Chávez's opposition blamed him for unfairly using state funds to spread largesse before the election to bolster Chavez's support among his primary electoral base, the lower class..."^[263]

If the wingers in the WSJ editorial board are starting to make him out to be the Greek Chavez, Tsirpas should gird his loins.

Maybe I was wrong about this guy? Nah.

[vt]

Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

So what's the solution? More cradle to grave European excess spending programs?






Retire at 50 for a full pension, like the Greeks tried to do simply fails. Crony capitalism and crony socialism don't work either.

The Greeks could learn a lot about productive societies like those in the northern part of Europe. You need free markets that produce jobs for the middle class. You need reasonable and fair regulation that actually gets enforced. The AFC was a product of a Fed out of whack, and the political malfeasance of both political parties who had their hands in the cookie jar. There were regulations that never got enforced.

What regulator in their right mind would allow 125% mortgages after a housing boom was going for five years? What regulator would allow 30 to 1 leverage for Wall Street trading houses and 60 to one for the liberal favorites Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?

I repeat again: a pox on both their houses and a need to have only publicly funded campaigns.

[EJ]

Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

My personal opinion, if Plan A hasn't worked for 8 years, it's time to look at Plan B.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-last-stand-of-greeces-ruling-elite-9999798.html

The data say Plan A is working.

GDP turned grow has increased since 2011 and turned positive in Q1 2014. The employment rate is also positve.

The Greek sovereign bond market does not appear to be overly concerned about regime change.

I can recall the debate here in the U.S. in 1983 and 1984 when the U.S. was coming off it's self-imposed austerity program. In the transition from high to low inflation when unemployment was high, the misnomer "stagflation" was coined. Stagflation is the inflation hangover that persists before the output gap kills it off.

By the middle of 2015 it will be obvious that the painful part of the Greek austerity is over and the economy is in full recovery mode. And the new administration will take all of the credit even though it will have done nothing but retain the policies of the previous administration.

In countries on a 4-year election cycle the administration that undertakes austerity has three years to show results or they are going to get kicked out and the new administration will enjoy the fruits. For the last Greek administration that meant 2014 needed to be the recovery year. Too late.

[littleshark]

Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

The Greek sovereign bond market does not appear to be overly concerned about regime change.

EJ, I think your chart is not current...Current 10yr Greece bond is yielding almost 11%.

[Woodsman]

Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

Chavez touch?...

Maybe the WSJ Ed Board is onto something?

[don]

Are We 5 or 10 Minutes to Regime Change?

Tsipras, Putin agree to boost bilateral cooperation

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras (r) shakes hands with former Prime Minister Antonis Samaras before a swearing-in ceremony of the new deputies that were elected in the January 25 national polls, in Athens on Thursday.

Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday agreed to boost bilateral ties in a telephone conversation during which the latter invited the new Greek premier to an event in Moscow in May to mark the victory over Nazism.

The two men agreed to boost cooperation in the economy and energy, tourism, culture and transport sectors. They also agreed on the need to “secure peace and stability in Ukraine,” according to a statement from Tsipras’s office. Putin expressed satisfaction at Greece’s stance at a recent summit in Brussels where Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias conveyed concerns over the prospect of additional sanctions against Russia over Ukraine. Sources rebuffed rumors about financial support for Greece from Russia, noting that the government was looking toward its European partners for support. The two men also discussed the possible creation of a pipeline to carry natural gas from Russia to Europe via Turkey and Greece.

Meanwhile Defense Minister Panos Kammenos responded to comments by his German peer Ursula von der Leyen, according to which Greece was jeopardizing its position in NATO with its stance vis-a-vis Russia. Kammenos called her comments “unacceptable and extortionate,” noting “Greece was always on the side of the Allies when they pushed back German occupation troops.”

The two men also discussed the possible creation of a pipeline to carry natural gas from Russia to Europe via Turkey and Greece.

“Greece was always on the side of the Allies when they pushed back German occupation troops.”

synchronize your watches, gentlemen . . .