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Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

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  • Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

    My personal opinion, if Plan A hasn't worked for 8 years, it's time to look at Plan B.


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-last-stand-of-greeces-ruling-elite-9999798.html


    The last stand of Greece's ruling elite


    As the campaigning for Greece's parliamentary elections enters its final hours ahead of the vote tomorrow, the last shots are being fired across the bows.


    Last night, Prime Minister Antonis Samaras of the ruling New Democracy party – behind the upstart radical-left Syriza party in the polls – made his last stand at the party’s final campaign rally with a plea to resist the advances of the would-be victors.

    In the Athens seaside suburb of Palaio Faliro, party officials were welcomed by cheering crowds in a former Olympic stadium, youth groups building up the atmosphere by waving Greek flags, beating drums, singing slogans and setting orange flares off in anticipation of the arrival of the embattled Mr Samaras.


    He declared that he would not allow Syriza and its leader, Alexis Tsipras – more than 20 years his junior – to take Greece “back to the past” with its anti-austerity platform and threats to renegotiate a European bailout on Greece’s debts, after his party had worked to keep the country “standing”.


    Alexis Tsipras, head of the Syriza left-wing main opposition party (AP) Alexis Tsipras, head of the Syriza left-wing main opposition party (AP)
    In trying to rectify the Greek financial mess, New Democracy has seen the country take massive sums in international bailouts and put into practice the stringent austerity measures that came with them. It is these measures that appear to have ensured that many voters will look for a new direction with Syriza, who are leading by between 4 and 6 percentage points in most polls.


    Party officials are now banking on the undecided vote to overturn New Democracy’s poor prognostics. At current estimates between 8 and 10 per cent of voters are still unsure.


    “I do believe we’ll be able to convince the undecided and win the election: things can change in an instant and when Greeks wake up on Sunday and go to the ballot they will think hard of their future,” New Democracy candidate Vasileios Foivos Axiotis told The Independent.


    After a seven-year recession and widespread unemployment, Greece’s economy is finally starting to show feeble signs of recovery. Pointing to conservative New Democracy’s electoral pledges, Mr Axiotis, a civil engineer who owns two large companies in construction and renewable energy says: “Syriza has nothing to offer Greece or the business world.”


    Yesterday, German Chancellor Angela Merkel called for unity – saying that Greece should remain part of the “story” of the eurozone, with a potential Syriza win raising fears for Greece’s future in the bloc. “I want Greece, despite the difficulties, to remain part of our story,” she said.


    Europe’s fears were not eased by Mr Tsipras yesterday, who insisted that his party, if it won, would have until the summer to conduct a review of the bailout, despite the agreement with the EU set to end on 28 February. Eurozone officials have said that Greece would likely need to seek an extension beyond then.


    Workers put up polling station signs at a school in Athens Workers put up signs that indicate the polling stations in a school (EPA)
    Lawyer Pavlos Marinakis, 26, sees New Democracy as a party of stability which would protect the country’s place in the eurozone. Syriza’s anti-bailout agreement has spooked markets and European officials. In spite of its unwavering austerity policies, its supporters say New Democracy has adopted a “reasonable” position by aiming to repay the country’s debts.


    “I’ll support New Democracy because all my efforts and sacrifices need to lead to results… I need stability and to know what will come next but there will be no security for our future with Mr Tsipras – he just makes empty promises about everything to everyone.”


    Mr Marinakis echoes the voices of those voters who fear the repercussions of the anti-austerity rhetoric of the left wing Syriza party. In a speech on Thursday night, Mr Tsipras warned thousands of supporters of looming “major clashes” as his party would seek easing of the country’s huge and “unsustainable” debts. Despite their support, Syriza’s anti-austerity measures have some Greeks worrying about the country’s fate, especially when it comes to negotiating with its international lenders.


    Greece is scheduled to repay billions of euros this year. New Democracy’s campaign has also focused on dissuading voters from backing its left wing opponent. “Greeks think that bankruptcy is what they are living now, but bankruptcy is when fuel, raw materials and medical imports cease immediately, like what we’ve seen in Cyprus, Venezuela and Argentina,” New Democracy candidate Sophie Voultepsi said yesterday.


    Withdrawals from banks have significantly escalated in recent days though nowhere near the capital flight ahead of the 2012 election. “Right now it’s the doom and gloom scenario,” says finance professional Michail Kougioulis. He said his vote is split between New Democracy and a newly created pro-European party, To Potami, or River, who are third in the polls and could act as kingmaker if neither of the other the two can claim a majority.


    “We’re six months ahead of a likely and gradual rebounding of the economy but we’re stepping back six months, with the risk of going back entire generations [with a Syriza win].”

  • #2
    Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

    Greece should leave the Euro zone, renage/renegotiate part of its debt, massively devalue its currency and slowly it will recover. There will be a lot of pain but in the end it is likely to be the best option.

    To claim that Greece is recovering when it is obvious that the EZ is falling further into deflation, the world economy is slowing, there are sanctions with Russia is just overly optamistic.
    Last edited by DRumsfeld2000; January 24, 2015, 09:00 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

      If a debt goes bad because the debtor has gone bankrupt, the banker is as much as to blamed as the debtor.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

        For the reasons I stated in the other post on Greece:

        No.

        And what most media reporting on the story don't get is that a Tsipras win means nothing in a Parliamentary system if he doesn't have enough votes/representatives to form a government. Either a coalition will need to be formed, which so far seems unlikely, or, a second round of elections will be held.

        When it comes to which leader most Greeks trust to govern, Samaras of New Democracy beats Tsipas. I think it is likely we'll be going for another election and then Samaras will have a better chance to form a coalition with POTAMI, the third largest political party.

        But either way, the end result will be the same. The only change is the damage Tsipras' rhetoric has caused to Greece in the investment world (stock market drop, corporate bond market hit, etc...) And also, the unnecessary economic cost of holding the election(s).

        An overall tremendous waste of time, energy, and money, yet wonderful fodder for the media.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

          Originally posted by touchring View Post
          If a debt goes bad because the debtor has gone bankrupt, the banker is as much as to blamed as the debtor.
          +1. (Actually more to blame.)

          Who's job is it to vet the loan? The borrower, or the lender?

          The lender has the clear responsibility to determine creditworthiness and whether the information provided by the borrower is true and correct.

          And the onus is on the lender to determine repayment capacity as well as the proper use of borrowed funds.

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          • #6
            Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

            Originally posted by Raz View Post
            +1. (Actually more to blame.)

            Who's job is it to vet the loan? The borrower, or the lender?

            The lender has the clear responsibility to determine creditworthiness and whether the information provided by the borrower is true and correct.

            And the onus is on the lender to determine repayment capacity as well as the proper use of borrowed funds.
            In the vast majority of cases, I would agree with this. For example, there's no doubt that the banks were the guilty parties in the home lending racket pre-2008.

            But we're not talking about a guy trying to get a home loan from a major bank here. We're talking about two institutions, both on a national/international scale, EACH with vast resources to hide and uncover the true financial state of the borrower.

            I do think that when a borrower commits deliberate fraud, and actively works to hide the state of their finances from investigation, commissioning for that express purpose the professional misconduct of a major financial institution like Goldman Sachs, the blame should probably be apportioned differently.

            To say that the lender is MORE guilty than the borrower in such a case means something different. It implies that the commission of fraud is entirely just, as long as it is not caught. And that means whoever bribes their accountants with more, should be declared the victim.

            That may regrettably be the way things work out at times. But to say that this is the best basis for a financial system is, I think, unsupportable. It would simply result in an arms race of bribery, much as we are seeing in the political and regulatory spheres. A more reasonable apportionment of blame, based at least in part on intent to deceive, would be a step toward ending this culture of bribery.

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            • #7
              Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

              European dream dying:

              http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-by-state.html

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              • #8
                Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

                Originally posted by gnk View Post
                An overall tremendous waste of time, energy, and money, yet wonderful fodder for the media.

                As an outsider, I think the fear in Tsipras is over-rated for the simple reason - he has no power other than the vote. The only role he can play is to renegotiate with the troika for better terms.

                François Hollande also campaigned with a lot of rhetoric but we know what happened after the socialist party took over.

                This is a capitalist world controlled by bankers and bourgeois that is more powerful than any government. They can even overthrow a government, raise private armies and commit genocide as we have seen recently in Ukraine.

                The Greek vote has historic significance for the entire world because it signifies defiance to the rule of bankers.
                Last edited by touchring; January 24, 2015, 10:41 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

                  Originally posted by vt View Post
                  A British journalist predicting the death of the EU?

                  How cliche.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

                    Originally posted by touchring View Post
                    The Greek vote has historic significance for the entire world because it signifies defiance to the rule of bankers.
                    We shall see what changes will come as Syriza won the Greek election by a large margin. They are apparently one or two seats short of a clear majority.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

                      Originally posted by santafe2 View Post
                      We shall see what changes will come as Syriza won the Greek election by a large margin. They are apparently one or two seats short of a clear majority.

                      Sometimes you need a new guy with clean hands to look into the books and the system.

                      http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b0c41...#axzz3PtBHO5Xs

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                      • #12
                        Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

                        It does not matter as the To Potami (The River) left wing party will almost certainly support them. This party has 17 seats.

                        Fascinating times are coming to Europe.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

                          Fascinating times are coming to Europe.
                          Critical to the above is the Parliamentary System.

                          Not the case here in the fully-co-opted 2-party 'democracy' . . .

                          Without the pressure relief valve of representation, regardless how small the number of seats, fascinating times in the US are apt to be in the streets.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

                            Originally posted by touchring View Post
                            Sometimes you need a new guy with clean hands to look into the books and the system...
                            Right. Now how do you say "hopium" in Greek?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Will Greece be the first country to overthrow the rule of bankers and elites?

                              In a sense, I am in a privilaged position here, having met and openly debated with Professor Vanis Varoufakis who is expected to become the new Finance Minister for Greece. He had turned up for an European Atlantic Group debate in the House of Commons which I attended, followed by a dinner debate in the Caladonian Club. Later again, I also attended one of his evening debates at the London School of Economics, LSE, and I have, from time to time added comments to his blog site.

                              Varoufakis is a very intelligent speaker with a sound understanding of why we are all, one way or another, working within a disfunctional financial system. He has never come across, to me, as a hot headed Markist; rather, as a profound believer in the need for change. His background in economics is as of someone that has mastered a contrian viewpoint with regard to his profession that does not entirely clash with anyone; rather, he tries to see all points of view.

                              If Varoufakis is appointed, I will expect that Greece will eventually succeed to find an acceptable solution from all viewpoints.

                              There do appear to be some sensible people there, albiet, with good old fashioned left wing ideas. This may turn out to be a good thing with the potential for change; not in past directions, but towards a new understanding of the possible.

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