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  • Saudi bets the farm................

    Saudi Arabia bets its future on 'Berlin or Bust' oil strategy

    World's largest oil exporter is forcing prices lower to win back market share but the high-risk strategy will test the house of Saud like never before

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    The health of Saudi Arabia's ageing King Abdullah could change oil policy Photo: AFP









    By Andrew Critchlow, Commodities editor

    2:23PM GMT 02 Jan 2015

    81 Comments


    Saudi Arabia has won the opening battle of its radical oil strategy by forcing prices lower. But the kingdom is about to enter into a dangerous new phase in its war to regain control of the world’s oil market.


    In November, Saudi succeeded in bullying the other members of the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec) into continuing to pump their current quota of 30m barrels per day (bpd) as its first objective. The strategy born in the palaces of Riyadh has sparked the apparently desired oil price rout, which the kingdom’s veteran oil minister Ali Naimi clearly believes is necessary to shut down the cartel’s biggest rivals in Russia and the shale oil fields of Dakota.


    Oil equals political power and influence for Saudi Arabia and a seat at the table of the world’s most powerful nations at the G20. Despite the colossal risks, something had to be done to reverse the tilt towards high-cost production coming from the US and elsewhere to maintain Saudi Arabia’s dominance as the so called global “swing producer”. With 13pc of global oil reserves and the cheapest production costs, the kingdom believes that it can still buy back the market and secure higher prices over the long term.


    “This is one of the most important policy initiatives by Saudi Arabia in the modern era,” said Edmund O’Sullivan, an expert on the kingdom with Middle East Economic Digest and author of the book, The New Gulf. “It isn’t without risks but they have the political power and economic resources to pull it off.”


    If victorious, Saudi Arabia will emerge stronger after re-asserting its global significance as the custodian of the world’s primary energy source. And, in pushing oil prices lower over the short term, it will reinforce its strategic importance to the US by bringing Russia’s President Vladimir Putin to his knees and putting pressure on Iran.

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    However, with the price of crude now in complete freefall, will Mr Naimi have the nerve to see through his high-risk strategy to the bitter end? It is bound to cause havoc among the economies of the Gulf Co-operation Council (GCC) states including the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait and Bahrain. With the exception of impoverished Bahrain, all these countries depend on oil revenues to fill their government coffers and prop up their hereditary monarchies.

    Brent crude closed the year at just over $56 per barrel, down 50pc from its peak in 2014 but Mr Naimi has gone on the record to say that, even if prices fall as low as $20 per barrel, the kingdom will continue to keep its vast low-cost oil wells pumping at their current rate of about 9.5m bpd. Some Opec insiders worry that Saudi is more likely to quietly increase its production by a further 1m bpd, causing an even sharper fall in prices. At these levels, what might be seen as the kingdom’s “Berlin or Bust” strategy - with echoes of the final all-out push to defeat Germany in the First World War - risks crippling not just the kingdom’s economy but also those of its close Arab allies.

    The consequences of failure for Mr Naimi and Saudi Arabia are profound. During the last decade of relatively high oil prices, Saudi has amassed a $750bn war chest of foreign currency reserves that will be burned through quickly by propping up the shortfall in export revenues. Influential figures within the kingdom such as Prince Alwaleed bin Talal – the Middle East’s wealthiest individual investor – have already been an outspoken critic of Mr Naimi’s plan, which he says could have catastrophic consequences for the Saudi economy.

    For the time-being at least, the kingdom intends to draw on its reserves to cover any shortfalls and actually expects to increase government spending by billions of dollars in 2015 next year despite a sharp drop in revenues from oil. Income is forecast to drop to 715bn riyals (£122bn) in 2015, from 855bn in 2014, leaving a deficit of 145bn riyals. However, that is provided that oil prices average $60 per barrel, whereas many experts are now forecasting crude could even touch the lows of $20 per barrel last seen in the late 90s.
    Burning away its only cash reserves could prove unwise should the current slide in oil prices become entrenched. Over the longer term, a more fundamental slowdown in demand growth for crude and the improvement in green technologies such as electric cars could mean Saudi will never be able to re-establish its hoard of foreign currency held by the central bank.

    Turning 80 this year, Mr Naimi’s own position as oil minister could also be questioned, should his gambit fail. Coming from humble origins in the kingdom’s oil-rich Eastern Province, much of Mr Naimi’s current power stems from the close support that he enjoys from the country’s ruler, King Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz al-Saud. Keeping oil fixed at around $100 per barrel was thought to have been vital for both men.

    The 91-year-old monarch has ruled the world’s most powerful oil producing state through some of its toughest years since the House of Saud first came to power over 100 years ago with the rise of his warrior Bedouin father, Ibn Saud. The Arab Spring uprisings, which took hold across the region in 2010, caught King Abdullah off his guard, as did the American government's willingness to stand on the side lines and watch Hosni Mubarak’s brutal regime crumble in Egypt.

    Suddenly, with the Bush family out of the White House, Saudi Arabia was in danger of losing its influence in Washington’s corridors along with its grip on its own immediate surroundings in the Middle East. Although those political fires have largely died down, Mr Naimi is still taking a massive risk in launching a global oil price war – that he denies is politically motivated – at a time when Islamic State militants still pose a significant risk to stability in the region.

    News that the ailing King Abdullah was taken into hospital on the last day of 2014 could have direct consequences for Mr Naimi, restricting his freedom to shape Saudi oil policy. Were the king to suddenly pass away, an ensuing power struggle in Riyadh against a backdrop of low oil prices could force Mr Naimi into a dramatic reversal.

    Saudi Arabia is not alone in the GCC when it comes to royal succession worries. In the UAE, the current ruler Sheikh Khalifa is recovering from a stroke, while in Oman, Sultan Qaboos remains too weakto return to the country after travelling to Germany for medical treatment last summer. In both cases, the transition of leadership could make these states review their support of Saudi Arabia’s current strategy.

    Mr Naimi will come under intense pressure over the next three months as the effect of lower oil prices starts to be felt throughout Opec and the wider global economy. However, for those countries like Saudi Arabia that are fighting for control of the world’s primary energy source, the pain is just beginning.

  • #2
    Re: Saudi bets the farm................

    As i see it:-
    America fracking will recover, as will Canada's Tar Sands......they can be put "on the back burner" till prices recover. What will get KILLED will be expensive off-shore stuff....like Brazil &.....(Ho Ho Ho) BRITAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ;)
    Mike

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Saudi bets the farm................

      Originally posted by Mega View Post
      However, with the price of crude now in complete freefall, will Mr Naimi have the nerve to see through his high-risk strategy to the bitter end?

      Brent crude closed the year at just over $56 per barrel...[but Saudi Arabia is still]pumping at their current rate of about 9.5m bpd....crude could even touch the lows of $20 per barrel last seen in the late 90s.

      ...Mr Naimi’s current power stems from the close support that he enjoys from the country’s ruler, King Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz al-Saud. Keeping oil fixed at around $100 per barrel was thought to have been vital for both men.
      I see how this gambit works for the US and meets our political goals but I don't see how it works for the Saudis. Providing a 1/2 off sale for a year or two will cost them about $500,000,000 a day or $175,000,000,000 a year. According to the author they have the financial reserves to sustain this path for several years, but why? With the Bush family out of power in the US I get that our relationship with the Saudis is less cozy but are we exerting direct pressure on them to take one for the team?

      It's interesting that the Saudi oil minister Naimi, talks about stopping new oil production in the US but I don't think this has anything to do with US oil production. The Saudis are taking a big hit so the US can crush Russia and damage Iran. And smoldering under this is the Shi'ite vs. Sunni battles playing out all over the Middle East. We'll have to see if really-cheap peak oil makes managing the various factions easier or more difficult.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Saudi bets the farm................

        Yes, but he can only do it short term.......by next winter they be out of ammo...
        Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Saudi bets the farm................

          Originally posted by santafe2 View Post
          I see how this gambit works for the US and meets our political goals but I don't see how it works for the Saudis. Providing a 1/2 off sale for a year or two will cost them about $500,000,000 a day or $175,000,000,000 a year. According to the author they have the financial reserves to sustain this path for several years, but why? With the Bush family out of power in the US I get that our relationship with the Saudis is less cozy but are we exerting direct pressure on them to take one for the team?

          It's interesting that the Saudi oil minister Naimi, talks about stopping new oil production in the US but I don't think this has anything to do with US oil production. The Saudis are taking a big hit so the US can crush Russia and damage Iran. And smoldering under this is the Shi'ite vs. Sunni battles playing out all over the Middle East. We'll have to see if really-cheap peak oil makes managing the various factions easier or more difficult.
          Dont underestimate Saudi motivation to hurt the Russians and Iranians.

          Maybe the Saudis view a resurgent Iran as an existential Shia threat to the world's biggest cash machine in human history.

          i don't know about the Saudi versus godless communist Soviet battle any more.

          I would think it pragmatic for two of the world's biggest energy exporters to partner to maximise profit and influence rather than eat each other's balance sheets.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Saudi bets the farm................

            And everyone seems to forget that they are giving away a non renewable resource. I would be very careful for each barrel of oil being extracted and exported or burnt.

            They don't seem to think in their grandsons futures, do they?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Saudi bets the farm................

              Originally posted by santafe2 View Post
              I see how this gambit works for the US and meets our political goals but I don't see how it works for the Saudis. Providing a 1/2 off sale for a year or two will cost them about $500,000,000 a day or $175,000,000,000 a year. According to the author they have the financial reserves to sustain this path for several years, but why? With the Bush family out of power in the US I get that our relationship with the Saudis is less cozy but are we exerting direct pressure on them to take one for the team?

              It's interesting that the Saudi oil minister Naimi, talks about stopping new oil production in the US but I don't think this has anything to do with US oil production. The Saudis are taking a big hit so the US can crush Russia and damage Iran. And smoldering under this is the Shi'ite vs. Sunni battles playing out all over the Middle East. We'll have to see if really-cheap peak oil makes managing the various factions easier or more difficult.
              I have posted in the past in more detail on most of these themes, some of those posts dating back to when I lived in the Gulf last decade, so what follows is abbreviated and in no particular order:

              - During the past dozen years Saudi Arabia has spent tens of billions of Dollars executing some of the largest and most complex crude oil development and processing projects on the planet with the specific, publicly stated aim of restoring surplus crude oil production capability that it allowed to erode during the low price cycle in the 1990s. Anybody who thought Saudi Arabia, the only country in the world with a material oil production capacity surplus, wouldn't again use this to its advantage when needed hasn't been paying attention. With apologies to Madeleine Albright, "What's the point of you creating all this superb excess production capability Ali, if we can't use it?". The Kingdom knows full well the global economy as a whole has been slowing and once in recession will never recover at $100+ per barrel oil. It also knows other OPEC members are all too happy if Saudi alone takes the production volume hit while they continue to habitually cheat on their quotas. USA shale oil drilling had nothing to do with any of this massive investment by Saudi Arabia, or its motives.

              - The first time Saudi Arabia tried a similar tactic, in the spring of 1986, it resulted in a 2/3 fall in the price of oil over about 4 months, with a bottom about $10 per bbl. It is also credited with costing Ahmed Zaki Yamani, the Oil Minister of Saudi Arabia for the previous 24 years, his job (Yamani's relations with King Fahd had been strained since his accession to the throne in 1982). If there is one thing the Arabs know and can recall in minute detail it is their history; going back centuries. So they can recall the events of 1986 better than most of us can recall last weekend. This time there won't be any surprises. Anyone familiar with the extraordinarily high cultural value placed on achieving consensus over decision making speed in the Arab world will understand when I say much tea will have been imbibed over many months of discussion in the King's majlis prior to the current strategy being revealed at the November OPEC meeting. There is unlikely to be any possible outcome from this strategy that the Saudi leadership and its advisers haven't considered and debated at length.

              - Relations with the USA became very strained during the first Bush Administration over the invasion of Iraq. Despite the public speculation of the influence of Prince Bandar bin Sultan with the Bush family, and his alleged role in promoting the affair, in actual fact the GCC invested considerable resources and effort trying to prevent the war and the inevitable destabilization of both Iraq and the region to no avail. A search might uncover an old post or two of mine describing some of what was going on there at the time. The subsequent lectures from the neocons (and later during the "Spring" from Mrs. Clinton's State Department) about "democracy" didn't go over well in general with the GCC Ruling Families, especially Saudi Arabia. All of which has been no small contributor to Saudi then stepping up its efforts to strengthen relations with China. The contrasting responses of the USA and China to the events in Myanmar in September 2007 was instructive (and a precursor of what was to come) for all the GCC Ruling Families.

              - Saudi telegraphed it was going to act carte blanche when it sent military troops in armoured vehicles across the causeway into the Kingdom of Bahrain at the height of the Shi'a demonstrations in Manama in March, 2011 (personnel and equipment from Kuwait and the UAE also participated). Bahrain is the headquarters of the US Navy 5th Fleet, and the Pentagon confirmed the next day that neither Secretary of Defense Robert Gates nor Admiral Mullen, then Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, had been give any advance indication of the troop deployment. This was a clear message to the USA and the rest of the world that after years of Iran-sponsored Hezbollah militia in Lebanon and the dramatic expansion of Iranian influence in Iraq (especially along the Gulf in southern Iraq) and Syria following the US ousting of Saddam, Saudi Arabia had no intention of allowing a Shi'a majority regime, or worse an Iranian sponsored Shi'a militia, to be established on its eastern doorstep. It is one of the few times in recent years where the Qatari government publicly supported Saudi Arabia. That was a defensive move to stop the advance of Iranian influence by Saudi. That has since evolved into an offensive campaign to roll back Iran's increased influence in the region.

              - Nevertheless, Saudi's natural international allies are the USA and China. Historically the USA, unlike the British, French and Dutch, was seen by the Saudi Ruling Family not to have imperial designs for the region. This sentiment most certainly played a part in Standard Oil of California securing the first oil exploration concession in the Kingdom, in 1933, over its European competitors. That sentiment survives to this day (note my comment above about the Arabs and history). Likewise, China today is not seen to have imperial ambitions, and comes with the added benefit of not caring a fig about "democracy". Along with minority interests in Japan and Korea, the only places outside the Kingdom where Saudi Aramco owns substantial refining capacity are the USA (Motiva Enterprises LLC, a 50/50 JV with Shell) and China (JVs with Sinopec and Exxon). To emphasize the scale and commitment to these investments, after expansion in 2012 the Motiva refinery at Port Arthur, Texas is the largest in the USA and the fifth largest in the world; even larger than Aramco's huge Saudi refinery at Ras Tanura.

              - We should not underestimate Saudi Arabia's understanding that a rapid and deep price decline serves their purposes much better than a shallower and more prolonged affair. Nothing is ever said accidentally by Saudi officials, so talk of $40, $30, $20 oil by HE Ali al-Naimi is quite deliberate. The interesting thing is that unlike 1986, Saudi has not actually "opened the taps" this time. It has merely refused to throttle them back from recent volumes. This is a distinct difference from the 1986 circumstance, where it first tried to prop prices in years prior by curtailing production only to see both its OPEC "partners" and non-OPEC competitors refuse to share the required pain and maintaining their production. Saudi Arabia's present surplus production capacity is limited compared to when it opened the floodgates in 1986. But only a small increase in production from the Kingdom is needed today to crater the price completely.


              Contrary to the idiot "analysts" that insist the target is US domestic shale drilling, and low oil prices are now somehow a negative for the US economy (how can they possibly be taken seriously?), Saudi and its natural allies, the USA and China, are collectively going to be the ultimate winners of this high stakes geopolitical Great Game poker match. China will take this opportunity to permanently limit Russia (its historical enemy) economically by stripping its mineral and energy endowment at cheap prices. The recently concluded Gazprom natural gas deal, coming after 15 years of price negotiations (the modern version of Chinese water torture?) and with Russia under duress, is just the opening salvo. What is Russia going to do? Turn to those it has been supporting? Those internationally influential leaders the Ayatollah and Assad. The USA has already made the "friends with conditions" overture to the Iranians, and left it at that.

              The only significant thing missing is for the USA to finally go all out and break the will of the jihadists to terrorize US citizens on US soil. I think that's coming, but not until Obama is gone.
              Last edited by GRG55; January 04, 2015, 12:15 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Saudi bets the farm................

                Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                I have posted in the past in more detail on most of these themes, some of those posts dating back to when I lived in the Gulf last decade, so what follows is abbreviated and in no particular order:


                - Nevertheless, Saudi's natural international allies are the USA and China. Historically the USA, unlike the British, French and Dutch, was seen by the Saudi Ruling Family not to have imperial designs for the region. This sentiment most certainly played a part in Standard Oil of California securing the first oil exploration concession in the Kingdom, in 1933, over its European competitors. That sentiment survives to this day (note my comment above about the Arabs and history). Likewise, China today is not seen to have imperial ambitions, and comes with the added benefit of not caring a fig about "democracy". Along with minority interests in Japan and Korea, the only places outside the Kingdom where Saudi Aramco owns substantial refining capacity are the USA (Motiva Enterprises LLC, a 50/50 JV with Shell) and China (JVs with Sinopec and Exxon). To emphasize the scale and commitment to these investments, after expansion in 2012 the Motiva refinery at Port Arthur, Texas is the largest in the USA and the fifth largest in the world; even larger than Aramco's huge Saudi refinery at Ras Tanura.
                Fascinating stuff as ever GRG, but I think in 1932 it was a case of beggars can't be choosers.

                Hindsight can be cruel. In 1932, amid a global economic slump, the impoverished Saudis came to London looking for a loan. They also had an offer: would Britain like to try drilling for oil? A disdainful Foreign Office mandarin gave the fateful reply, writes Matthew Teller - no loan, and no drilling.

                Also a clear sign that financial power and wherewithal had moved to the USA.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Saudi bets the farm................

                  Once again, thanks for your commentary GRG55.

                  A couple things:

                  1) What is it that is driving continued animosity between Saudi and Russia?

                  Wouldn't logic dictate that a Saudi/Russian alignment in energy production and export policy be a pragmatic move with potential long-term gains?

                  Or is it basic human cultural/political/doctrinal/illogical incompatibility driving the animosity?

                  2) Does the Saudi choice not to "open the taps" mean the global economy(ie China) is slowing at a far faster rate than marketed and advertised in mass media?

                  3) I know you've mentioned a number of times how Egypt as a regional epicenter might become dangerously overlooked, but what do you reckon of Pakistan further injecting itself into GCC politics as it already plays a 2nd(or is that now 3rd with China) fiddle to the US in that regard as the religiously/ethnically convenient "hired help" in some critical areas.

                  Will Pakistan be able to ingratiate itself independently(much like Cuba to Venezuela) or will its actions likely be China's by proxy?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Saudi bets the farm................

                    SOCAL (which became Chevron) was competing against the Iraq Petroleum Company at the time. IPC was owned 23.75% each by the British, Dutch and French predecessor companies of present day BP, Royal Dutch Shell and Total. The remainder was held by a consortium of five American oil companies (Standard Oil of New Jersey, which became Exxon; Standard Oil of New York, which become Mobil, and then merged to become ExxonMobil; Gulf Oil, which was eventually taken over by Chevron; Pan American, which became part of Standard Oil of Indiana, later Amoco Corporation and is part of present day BP; and Atlantic-Richfield, which became ARCO and also ended up as part of present day BP) plus the infamous 5% held by Calouste Gulbenkian.

                    The British Foreign Office was influential in its day, but it is nonsensical to believe that it had the ability to make any such determination for either Anglo-Persian or IPC.

                    Yes, Saudi Arabia was an "impoverished" state, and fiercely tribal (still is the latter). The advantageous terms that SOCAL signed for reflected that.

                    I do not know who Matthew Teller is, but he seems not to have much detailed understanding of the history of the Middle East petroleum industry. Suggest you pick up a used copy of "The Prize" by Daniel Yergin.
                    Last edited by GRG55; January 03, 2015, 08:24 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Saudi bets the farm................

                      Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                      The British Foreign Office was influential in its day, but it is nonsensical to believe that it had the ability to make any such determination for either Anglo-Persian or IPC.

                      Yes, Saudi Arabia was an "impoverished" state, and fiercely tribal (still is the latter).
                      Although there's a lot of interesting history coming out recently on the quiet and arms length private(albeit sanctioned) UK expertise paid for by the Saudis in evicting the Egyptians from Yemen in the 60's.

                      I wonder how the UK's relationship THEN to SA relates to Pakistan's relations NOW to SA?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Saudi bets the farm................

                        Originally posted by lakedaemonian View Post
                        Once again, thanks for your commentary GRG55.

                        A couple things:

                        1) What is it that is driving continued animosity between Saudi and Russia?

                        Wouldn't logic dictate that a Saudi/Russian alignment in energy production and export policy be a pragmatic move with potential long-term gains?

                        Or is it basic human cultural/political/doctrinal/illogical incompatibility driving the animosity?...
                        One would need to cover a lot of history to properly answer the first question. The entirely inadequate short-form answer is that the socialist ideals articulated by post-WWII pan-Arabists in the Mashriq must have appealed to Soviet sensibilities. And it made for a logical Cold War alignment given US support for the fledgling State of Israel in the Mashriq. I expect the overthrow of monarchs in Egypt and Iraq, and their replacement with military leaders aligned with Soviet re-distributive economic ideology couldn't have held much appeal for the monarchs of the Arabian Peninsula, whose descendants still rule the Gulf states. Today is a slightly different matter. Nasser is long gone and so is the USSR. Its very considerable support for Egypt was displaced by the even more considerable support of the Americans some time ago. Today the Russian alignment is concentrated on one side of the Shi'a - Sunni divide, and the Wahhabi Saudi consider the Shi'a apostates. That last part pretty well says it all.

                        The second question is much easier to answer...with another question: "Wouldn't logic dictate that an all-member OPEC alignment in energy production and export policy be a pragmatic move with potential long term gains?" See the problem.

                        Originally posted by lakedaemonian View Post
                        2) Does the Saudi choice not to "open the taps" mean the global economy(ie China) is slowing at a far faster rate than marketed and advertised in mass media?...
                        I doubt anybody really knows. I expect not opening the taps was more a matter of not using up all the (limited) ammunition in the opening moments of battle.

                        Originally posted by lakedaemonian View Post
                        3) I know you've mentioned a number of times how Egypt as a regional epicenter might become dangerously overlooked, but what do you reckon of Pakistan further injecting itself into GCC politics as it already plays a 2nd(or is that now 3rd with China) fiddle to the US in that regard as the religiously/ethnically convenient "hired help" in some critical areas.

                        Will Pakistan be able to ingratiate itself independently(much like Cuba to Venezuela) or will its actions likely be China's by proxy?
                        Pakistan is a failed state in a region with so many others it doesn't readily stand out. If you are referring to Pakistan's export of labour to the GCC, the preference is for Indians, as the Pakistanis are often seen as "hotheaded troublemakers", similar to the Palestinians, who suffer great discrimination in the Gulf. Pakistani labour prevails in some of the more conservative GCC States which have difficulty with the idea of allowing large numbers of non-Muslims to reside.
                        Last edited by GRG55; January 04, 2015, 12:04 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Saudi bets the farm................

                          doesn't EJ say saudi get some gold for oil sold? what is saudi arabia's true gold reserve?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Saudi bets the farm................

                            Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                            Contrary to the idiot "analysts" that insist the target is US domestic shale drilling, and low oil prices are now somehow a negative for the US economy (how can they possibly be taken seriously?), Saudi and its natural allies, the USA and China, are collectively going to be the ultimate winners of this high stakes geopolitical Great Game poker match. China will take this opportunity to permanently limit Russia (its historical enemy) economically by stripping its mineral and energy endowment at cheap prices. The recently concluded Gazprom natural gas deal, coming after 15 years of price negotiations (the modern version of Chinese water torture?) and with Russia under duress, is just the opening salvo. What is Russia going to do? Turn to those it has been supporting? Those internationally influential leaders the Ayatollah and Assad. The USA has already made the "friends with conditions" overture to the Iranians, and left it at that.
                            sounds like US is trying to break the china-Russia-Iran alliance, turn them against each other. china and Iran may not take the bait though.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Saudi bets the farm................

                              Bloody Hell this is a good post, outstanding work everyone, only thing missing is EJ post?
                              Mike

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