Airbus in BIG troubles?

[Mega]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30427116
Mike

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Airbus in BIG troubles?

Yes the flop of the A380 has been all over the aviation press.
Rumors say Boeing might design two new aircraft simultaneously to replace the 737 and 757
Its not clear airbus can match that with even just one to replace the A360

[DRumsfeld2000]

Re: Airbus in BIG troubles?

Wait until the Dollar rises and the Euro crashes: that will make all the difference in a deflation fueled world.

[GRG55]

Re: Airbus in BIG troubles?

Yes the flop of the A380 has been all over the aviation press.
Rumors say Boeing might design two new aircraft simultaneously to replace the 737 and 757
Its not clear airbus can match that with even just one to replace the A360

?? The B757 went out of production a decade ago, and Boeing has largely filled that single-aisle, twin engine void with a series of larger 737 variants. Boeing's toughest future competition in the single-aisle market may come from Bombardier's C-series and China's Comac C919.

Wait until the Dollar rises and the Euro crashes: that will make all the difference in a deflation fueled world.

Bingo! That is the way it's been for a couple of decades...the stories about "distress" in one or the other of these two companies seem highly correlated with a peak in the relative exchange value between the two currencies.

[GRG55]

Re: Airbus in BIG troubles?

?? The B757 went out of production a decade ago, and Boeing has largely filled that single-aisle, twin engine void with a series of larger 737 variants. Boeing's toughest future competition in the single-aisle market may come from Bombardier's C-series and China's Comac C919...


...

Not exactly sure what is in this for Russia, other than as a supplier of aluminium and jet fuel perhaps



China, Russia Near Deal for Wide-Body Aircraft

With dreams of rivaling Airbus and Boeing, China and Russia are moving toward joint development of a new jumbo jet

(Beijing) —Russian and Chinese aircraft manufacturers are preparing to cooperate to help China meet soaring demand for new jumbo jets without kowtowing to industry heavyweights Airbus and Boeing...

...Key parties for the potential deal would be state-owned Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China (Comac) and Russia's state-owned United Aircraft Corp. (UAC)

Not invited to the negotiating table were the companies that now dominate the world's jumbo jet manufacturing industry – Europe's Airbus and America's Boeing. These companies are currently among the only choices available to Chinese airlines looking to modernize or expand their fleets of long-distance, big-load aircraft.

Chinese airlines currently fly Airbus A340, A350 and A380 jets, as well as Boeing 777 and 787 models. These wide-body aircraft are commonly reserved for long distance flight and can accommodate at least 200 passengers, and as many as 800. They're also more fuel- and cost-efficient to operate than smaller passenger jets.

Chinese airlines currently fly about 170 jumbo jets combined, but will need to add at least 1,000 new, wide-body aircraft over the next 20 years to meeting rising demand for long-distance air travel, according to a Boeing report.

Some demand for new aircraft is expected to be met by China's homegrown C919, a narrow-body family of Comac passenger jets currently under development. These models are designed carry between 158 and 174 passengers, thus rivaling the Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 medium-range jets.

The first, air-worthy C919 model is expected to take its first test flight in late 2015. Meanwhile, Comac has made it to the research stage of a project for an all-new wide-body aircraft that's currently called C929...

...So far, however, the C929 is only on paper. But China is keen to develop its own, wide-body passenger aircraft to compete with the Boeing 747 and Airbus A380. And that's apparently why Comac officials have been eyeing a cooperation agreement with Russia...

...The next step came in September with an announcement by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. He said the two countries planned to sign a contract for joint development of wide-body aircraft in October.

October came and went without a contract signing. However, Comac Chairman Jin Zhuanglong said October 19 that the China-Russia research project would be launched in 2015.

China wants jumbo jets but doesn't want to pay relatively high, Airbus-Boeing prices. A single 787, for example, can cost about US$ 200 million.

The Chinese government would also like to see its domestic aviation industry benefit from the kind of supply chain that would emerge to support homegrown jumbo jet manufacturing. Development of this niche industry would complement the country's emerging manufacturing base for narrow-body aircraft such as the C919. Eventually, China wants to see its passenger jets of all sizes accepted and flying around the world.

China's domestic civil aviation sector has been gradually phasing out small aircraft with fewer than 120 seats in favor of larger jets that can carry up to 250 passengers, according to Yang Yang, who heads Comac's market research division.

Thus, Yang said, the outlook is bright for the C919 and sets the stage for Comac's expansion into jumbo jets...

...Russia has long sought a role in China's aircraft development...in 2012, officials at the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade signaled a willingness to work closely with China's aviation industry. Moreover, Russia's media that year reported that Comac and UAC would work together on a wide-body aircraft based on Russia's now-scrapped Ilyushin IL-96 model passenger jet.

The IL-96, which went into service in 1993, can carry up to 300 passengers on a flight of up to 11,500 kilometers, which makes it comparable to the Airbus A380 and Boeing 777 models. Later, though, the IL-96 was declared an aircraft with two many flaws and unfit for the world market. So the airliner was pulled off the market.

Russia had planned to improve the IL-96 by equipping it with more advanced, efficient engines. These plans never got off the ground, however, due to a lack of funding.

A cooperation project with China could revive the IL-96 dream. A UAC representative told Caixin that Russia would like to work with China on wide-body aircraft development based on the IL-96 model and fitted with engines made in Russia.

But there's no guarantee China would agree to a project based on the IL-96. One skeptic of such a project is Shen Kezheng, an aviation expert with Guangdong Changsheng Aircraft Design Co. who has worked on Chinese aircraft development projects.

Shen told Caixin that the IL-96 may lack the technological features needed for an aircraft to compete on the international market. For example, it's an all-metal aircraft, whereas the equivalent, 250-seat Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 are more than 50 percent composite materials.

In Shen's opinion, the proposed China-Russia cooperation would focus on a wide-body jet with about 250 seats. But to compete against Boeing and Airbus, he said, it should be built with composites. And Chinese authorities prefer non-Russian engines made by companies such as Rolls-Royce, General Electric and Pratt & Whitney.

"Russia doesn't possess advanced technology for large aircraft," said Shen. "But from Russia's perspective, upgrading a mature model (such as the IL-96) will save money. The question is whether China would be willing to do it."

A Chinese aviation industry source said China wants only the best engines, while Russia is interested in supporting its own engine-manufacturing industry. "For civil aircraft manufacturing, we shouldn't think about using our own stuff but the world's best," the source said...

[jk]

Re: Airbus in BIG troubles?

"Russia doesn't possess advanced technology for large aircraft," said Shen. "But from Russia's perspective, upgrading a mature model (such as the IL-96) will save money. The question is whether China would be willing to do it."

A Chinese aviation industry source said China wants only the best engines, while Russia is interested in supporting its own engine-manufacturing industry

seems like russia is desperate to survive as a producer of commercial aircraft. joint-venturing with china might help, as well as providing a bigger, built-in, market for the eventual product. meanwhile i would assume there's at least some cross-fertilization with defense industries. certainly in the u.s. boeing is a big defense contractor as well as commercial aviation producer. i would think russia strongly wants to develop something OTHER THAN natural resource supply in its economy.

[GRG55]

Re: Airbus in BIG troubles?

seems like russia is desperate to survive as a producer of commercial aircraft. joint-venturing with china might help, as well as providing a bigger, built-in, market for the eventual product. meanwhile i would assume there's at least some cross-fertilization with defense industries. certainly in the u.s. boeing is a big defense contractor as well as commercial aviation producer. i would think russia strongly wants to develop something OTHER THAN natural resource supply in its economy.[/COLOR]

Russia has long and well deserved reputation for advanced aeronautical engineering and aerodynamics, including early aerodynamicist Nikolai Joukowski. A more recent example of this capability is aerospace defense contractor Sukhoi, which makes the radial engine SU-26 and SU-31 monoplanes that have won the FAI World Aerobatic Championship Aresti Cup in the unlimited category six times in the last 10 competitions.

This will be where Russia can make its greatest contributions in a JV with the Chinese imo (despite my earlier wisecrack about metal and kerosene).

Ironically, one of the foremost former Soviet Union aircraft design and manufacturing companies is Antonov, located near Kiev, Ukraine.

[lektrode]

Re: Airbus in BIG troubles?

Russia has long and well deserved reputation for advanced aeronautical engineering and aerodynamics,....
...
Ironically, one of the foremost former Soviet Union aircraft design and manufacturing companies is Antonov, located near Kiev, Ukraine.

now theres a monster aircraft, or should say THE Monster plane:



cant seem to find the pix of the one eye got inside one day - when a couple of the hotshot go-fast boys flew their maxi's (85footers, 2 of em side by side) over for a race, after they'd done the newport-bermuda and were pressed for time - inside the plane and looking out thru the swing-up pointy end, gave the impression one was in a 2 track subway tunnel looking out:

[Chris Coles]

Re: Airbus in BIG troubles?

If China is to move towards creating their own aircraft industry; particularly with a composite aircraft in mind, then they should look at the history of German gliding, where, after WW2, the Germans were restricted to designing and flying gliders, in turn creating Ackleflegs, (glider design groups), within their top universities. The first design won the world gliding championships and later led to the likes of the Nimbus 4. Germany remains the world leader in glider design and manufacture.

A gliding club is by far and away the very best way to learn to fly too. And you make friends for life at the launch point.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Airbus in BIG troubles?

?? The B757 went out of production a decade ago, and Boeing has largely filled that single-aisle, twin engine void with a series of larger 737 variants. Boeing's toughest future competition in the single-aisle market may come from Bombardier's C-series and China's Comac C919...

Here's an article at Aviation Week & Space Technology on the subject

Boeing Revisits Past In Hunt For 737/757 Successors

Boeing, in ‘no hurry’ for a new middle market airliner, is looking to 757/767 model for long-term development plans
Dec 12, 2014Guy Norris and Jens Flottau | Aviation Week & Space Technology

Full article here.
http://aviationweek.com/commercial-a...757-successors