The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

[seobook]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

I think a big part of the shift I was trying to reference above was more aligned with economics. In 2009 Google's growth rate crashed, their stock price plunged, and they were worried about them losing talent from it (they even repriced their stock options at a lower price at one point - right near the bottom). While a lot of smaller businesses pulled back on advertising, some pre-approved brand advertising budgets kept being spent.

I have no idea on the intelligence industry stuff. There were stories at some point about Alexander and Brin being on first name basis in emails, but at least some portion of Google is somewhat adversarial to the (external) surveillance system, as reflected in them shifting to search being HTTPS & encouraging third party websites to shift to HTTPS.

[jiimbergin]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

I've tend to view mobile as being for shallow engagements (check sports scores, play a game, quick IM a friend, etc.) and for repetition of known tasks (using GrubHub repeatedly to order food or such) and desktop more for deeper engagements. It would be hard for me to imagine a person reading one of EJ's features on a cell phone.

Though even if that sort of divide turns out to be correct, it can still have a major impact on the economics of publishing, as many companies which do in depth features subsidize them with high margin shorter content.

As a person who works on the web & can do so from home with dual monitors, I see mobile devices as being far less efficient than the desktop & sort of like being offline when I am away from the computer. But that point of view might not be the least bit relevant for many people sitting on a half hour bus ride to and from work each day who own a phablet.


On the surface that sounds correct, but if you dig a bit deeper...

• Android has the open source part of the code & the proprietary parts of the code. Over time more and more features have been pushed into the closed proprietary parts. Open was a marketing angle to buy adoption, which they've moved away from over time as they've built a more dominant marketshare.
• Google has control over the dozen(s) of apps they require Android manufactures to set as defaults. These default placements make it hard to break into some categories. And some of Google's apps (like Google Now) float across multiple verticals & can add popular features from third party apps right into Now.
• Google invests into other companies in their ecosystem & has publicly stated they use their internal data to help drive their investments, figure out what to acquire & figure out what to build next.
• Google has repeatedly blocked apps from their app stores (like AdBlock Plus & Disconnect Mobile) if those apps adversely impacted Google's business.
• Google requires their Chrome apps be installed from the official store site, prevents indirect monetization through offering a free plugin bundled with another plugin which paid to be installed, and yet they themselves use Flash security updates in other browsers to bundle Chrome browser installs.
• Even the Amazon app store comparison has bits worth referencing ... Google requires manufactures who make Android phones not make other lines that are not officially licensed. Part of being officially licensed means you put Google search as the default search, Google Play as the default app store, etc. In China where Google is largely blocked off there is vibrant competition in third party app stores for Android, but outside of those I think Amazon is about the only Android app store with any scale at all.

I am not claiming Apple as something other than Draconian dictator, rather I am suggesting where Google appears otherwise it is either because they are painting the perception for marketing purposes (saw a TV commercial tonight about Android where it said "and YOU" and something like "be together. not the same." ... yet all those forced bundling / tying features make so much of the experience "the same" across devices, expressly for Google consumer tracking and monetization purposes) or because they were losing and are playing catch up.

Before the American financial crisis of 2008 Google was highly aligned with openness, but they've become DRASTICALLY more closed off since then.

Hi, my son is quite knowledgeable and very opinionated, but trying to understand this better I forwarded your response to him and here is is. BTW, this is how he replies to everyone. Also you may get the impression that he thinks I am too Right Wing!

• With all due respect, this guy really has no clue what he's talking about.
  
  0) Microsoft doesn't redistribute IE. Apple doesn't redistribute Safari. Mozilla urges people to get Firefox from them as does Opera. Why should Chrome be any different? There are tens of thousands of ways to enhance Chrome too with plugins from various sources, including AdBlock Plus.
  
  1) Every single OS has defaults. Every one. Microsoft and Apple have defaults they set in Windows and OSX, that doesn't mean users can't change them. Users can also install ANYTHING they wish on Android, it's ONE check box, ONE. I have an app from MIT installed that gives me extremely detailed info on every cell tower I hit. I use it for troubleshooting. I've been using the Android L keyboard since Google RELEASED Android L's source code, Android is OPEN SOURCE, to the public. Coders pulled the keyboard code out and repackaged it as an apk to install. It worked wonderfully. I finally upgraded to the released keyboard the other day and again it was pulled from the OPEN SOURCE Android code. Show me ONE other mobile device vendor who has their OS out there like that. Just one. There are NONE. How again is Google closed off?
  
  2) AdBlock Plus isn't in Play? Uh, Duh!!! It's blocks Googles MAIN revenue system. That'd be like whining that Ford blocks dealers from selling Corvettes next to Mustangs or Burger King blocking their stores from selling Big Macs next to Whoppers. That's just stupid.
  
  3) As for Play being the default, that'd be like him whining that Apple doesn't set Amazon Music as the default music store on iOS over iTunes. You really need to find a new source for news and opinions.
  
  4) Google is about as open as it gets. They have NEVER stopped 3rd party stores. Try these:
  
  http://joyofandroid.com/android-app-store-alternatives/
  
  I have used Android since 1.x and have found it nothing if not easy to navigate when I want to do something. The biggest block to openness is NOT Google, it's the carriers and makers like Samsung and LG who lock their phones. That's why rooting is so popular. Google has almost no bloatware in the base Android. It's Samsung, LG, Motorola, and others like the carriers who put crap on the phones (Verizon put NFL crap on one of my phones and I don't subscribe and couldn't remove it. They also forced a visual Caller ID that would give me the city name of the calling person but that cost $4/mo and it would be wrong if Camille called me from Winston on her 828 number. Verizon later removed that crap.).
  
  As for Google losing and playing catch up. Dream on. Android has ~85% of the global smartphone market. There is no way Google is playing catch up and hasn't played catch up in 4-5 years (outselling Apple by 2:1 even 4 years ago!). Sure, much of their market is in sub-$200 devices, but that's like saying that Toyota shouldn't be considered the largest auto maker because they sell inexpensive cars along side their $50,000 SUVs.
  
  http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartpho...rket-share.jsp
  
  In the end, Google is for-profit company and no one is forced to use their products (iOS and Windows phones are perfectly viable solutions and if you think Android is closed off, just try one of those - NEITHER allow 3rd party stores). I have no problem with them protecting their product, but they're not the big bad guy you've made them out to be. Isn't it the Right's position that business is all about profit and should be left to their own accords to run their business as they see fit because the market will autocorrect any intrusions a business makes? You're dangerously close to leaning Left on this issue. I might get you to the center after all!
  
  
  
  17 Android App Store Alternatives for those who hate Google Play
  Checking out new apps and games is what Android is all...
  joyofandroid.com|By Billa

[seobook]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

he sounds pretty enraged, so I won't be replying to any more of his replies which claim "no clue"

...however...

Android is OPEN SOURCE, to the public.

a piece of it is, but certainly not the whole thing...
Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

AdBlock Plus isn't in Play? Uh, Duh!!! It's blocks Googles MAIN revenue system. That'd be like whining that Ford blocks dealers from selling Corvettes next to Mustangs or Burger King blocking their stores from selling Big Macs next to Whoppers. That's just stupid.

It was re-allowed after Google cut a deal with them to show ads on Google.com, while blocking ads on Bing & other third party sites.

That's totally reasonable and not the least bit anti-competitive or closed off.

As for Google losing and playing catch up. Dream on. Android has ~85% of the global smartphone market.

This is a historically out of context comment.

1.) Initially they did come from behind. When they were about to launch Android, the iPhone was announced & they pulled the Android launch - starting over - building until they had something which is a bit more competitive.
2.) While Android is ahead in marketshare today, their revenue generated from their app store is still behind Apple's & it will likely be another year or two before it passes it.
3.) my "open to close" point was more about how greater restrictions have been added over time. initially they were mostly open, now a manufacturer are required to set about 20 different Google apps as defaults

Google's entire business model is to undercut existing businesses to establish a monopoly market position & then when the monopoly power is in place to start adding friction back into the ecosystem to enhance their own monetization. consider how their instant answers in search results scrape third party content, yet their most recent iteration of local search involves stripping addresses and phone numbers and website links from the local 3 pack results to force users into viewing more search results pages with more ads on them.

also note my comment was "they were losing and are playing catch up" ... he shifted were to are so he could blow down a strawman of his own making.

As for Play being the default, that'd be like him whining that Apple doesn't set Amazon Music as the default music store on iOS over iTunes. You really need to find a new source for news and opinions.

it isn't one app thought ... it is about 20 different apps (and that number keeps growing over time).

Microsoft doesn't redistribute IE. Apple doesn't redistribute Safari. Mozilla urges people to get Firefox from them as does Opera. Why should Chrome be any different?

I am saying Chrome shouldn't be any different. The problem is that it is different.

1.) Both Mozilla and Microsoft have allow third parties like Yahoo! to distribute customized versions of their web browsers with a Yahoo! toolbar or such included in them.
2.) Yahoo! shut down their Chrome toolbar because Google made it against their TOS. now they are stuck being distributed only from within the Chrome extension store. that store also includes terms which prevent indirect monetization & bundling
3.) Google gets much of their marketshare for Chrome ... by ... gasp ... bundling it within software for third party browsers.

I do realize Chrome has an alternative Chromium version, but it doesn't have automated updates & similar enabled. Features are explicitly disabled to try to push people onto Chrome.

Isn't it the Right's position that business is all about profit and should be left to their own accords to run their business as they see fit because the market will autocorrect any intrusions a business makes?

I hope Google enters his market with a directly competing product & he has some time to contemplate that idealism with first hand experience

though it is also worth mentioning Google disagreed with his views when they were losing to Paypal and Internet Explorer
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...l-only-policy/
http://www.geek.com/microsoft/google...-fine-1542123/
they love regulators where they are losing, but believe absolutely in markets where they are winning.

bundling default settings with monopoly share is scummy and illegal UNLESS it is Google doing it, then it is fine.

monopolies are not particularly responsive to market feedback. and by the time things magically work themselves out, many competitors have died.

look at how Google has been stripping features from their ad platform to juice revenues.
- enhanced campaigns bundled crappy mobile clicks on advertisers
- exact keyword targeting was broadened out to include misspellings & variations

the individual advertiser can choose to boycott Google products, but if Google is the default in Chrome & Android & paid for default placements on Safari & iOS & Opera & Firefox (as well as some OEM Windows machines) then if most users don't change their defaults the advertiser is forced to advertise on Google or they are locked out of the vast majority of the search market.

[jk]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

google is indeed gradually forcing more activity to be embedded in its ecosystem. i've been using google keep for a while- a simple tool which allows me have notes on my smartphone and my laptop in sync. suddenly i can't use keep on my laptop without joining google+. i avoid all "social" media with the exception of crowdsourced traffic info on waze. i gave up using keep for a while, doing sync through evernote, but just caved and registered on google+. at the end of the process they said i "might be lonely" since i chose to include no one in any "circles."

btw- re the utility of smartphones. i recently got a note 4 and am gradually learning to use the stylus more productively. the handwriting recognition and conversion to text is very impressive, especially in light of the quality [absent] of my handwriting. i think a tool like this is not some crippled version of a laptop application- i use a keyboard on my laptop and am bewildered by the idea that anyone would want a touch screen laptop. the note 4 provides a useful tool in its own right.

[shiny!]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

google is indeed gradually forcing more activity to be embedded in its ecosystem. i've been using google keep for a while- a simple tool which allows me have notes on my smartphone and my laptop in sync. suddenly i can't use keep on my laptop without joining google+. i avoid all "social" media with the exception of crowdsourced traffic info on waze. i gave up using keep for a while, doing sync through evernote, but just caved and registered on google+. at the end of the process they said i "might be lonely" since i chose to include no one in any "circles."

Social media just feels so "germy" for lack of a better word. Like those touchscreens and styluses for authorizing credit cards that never, ever get disinfected. I value my privacy and solitude way too much for social media. Expecting a day will come when people who don't want to be forced into a virtual hive world of phony Likes and Friends will be given some kind of negative psychiatric diagnosis.

I'm starting to think social media is a convenient cover for social aversion. More and more people in public hunched over their phones with no awareness of their surroundings and no desire to interact with the people around them. When I try to make small talk with strangers now - especially young ones - many people look shocked that someone is actually speaking to them. I swear I don't look that scary.

The next Stagecoach type movie to come out featuring a bunch of people stuck in an elevator together won't have any dialog at all. It'll just be two hours of people tapping on their phones while ignoring one another.

btw- re the utility of smartphones. i recently got a note 4 and am gradually learning to use the stylus more productively. the handwriting recognition and conversion to text is very impressive, especially in light of the quality [absent] of my handwriting.

The sign of a great doctor :-)

[seobook]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

I'm starting to think social media is a convenient cover for social aversion. More and more people in public hunched over their phones with no awareness of their surroundings and no desire to interact with the people around them. When I try to make small talk with strangers now - especially young ones - many people look shocked that someone is actually speaking to them. I swear I don't look that scary.

About a week back I saw a guy on his bicycle pull out his cell phone and read Facebook or some such on it while he was driving hands free in the road with cars all around him.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/16/world/...anksy-removed/
https://twitter.com/thereaIbanksy/st...04996338782210

[shiny!]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

About a week back I saw a guy on his bicycle pull out his cell phone and read Facebook or some such on it while he was driving hands free in the road with cars all around him.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/16/world/...anksy-removed/
https://twitter.com/thereaIbanksy/st...04996338782210

Yep, that's it.

Saw a bicyclist yesterday looking down at his phone while pedaling on a busy street.

It's gotta be some kind of addictive trance state. An altering of brainwaves or neurochemicals. I feel it myself when there's real things I should be doing like washing the dishes or going to bed on time, but instead I keep clicking because I feel like I'll be missing something.

[jiimbergin]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

I personally like Facebook. It is especially useful to keep up with our very large extended family, especially my nieces and nephews. My Mother who is 90 and lives in Pittsburgh, likes it when I call and let her know what is happening in the life of her grandchildren and great grandchildren. Don't get me wrong many of them visit her, but just not as often as I get to see them on Facebook.

[jk]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

i'm significantly screen-addicted. if i'm not involved in some other concrete task, it takes a real act of will to close my laptop, keep my smartphone in my pocket, and do something else.

[Woodsman]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

Yep, that's it.

Saw a bicyclist yesterday looking down at his phone while pedaling on a busy street.

It's gotta be some kind of addictive trance state. An altering of brainwaves or neurochemicals. I feel it myself when there's real things I should be doing like washing the dishes or going to bed on time, but instead I keep clicking because I feel like I'll be missing something.

You bet it is.

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/5jcl/5JCL59.htm

Look up the work of Herbert E. Krugman, if you're interested in the early work.

[shiny!]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

i'm significantly screen-addicted. if i'm not involved in some other concrete task, it takes a real act of will to close my laptop, keep my smartphone in my pocket, and do something else.

Same here. Except I don't have a smartphone.

You bet it is.

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/5jcl/5JCL59.htm

Look up the work of Herbert E. Krugman, if you're interested in the early work.

Excellent link, thank you.

In the same vein, Marie Winn wrote a fascinating book way back in the '70s called The Plug-In Drug about the harmful neurological and developmental effects that TV watching has on children's brains. It's been revised several times since then and now includes studies about computer use. Adult brains experience the same effects; it's just more damaging when it happens to children's brains.

Winn's argument is that it isn't content of shows that effect us as much as the neurological/chemical changes that occur in brain from passively staring at flickering lights on the screen. When these changes happen during a child's developmental years it's as if the child is growing up stoned on opiate drugs.

Every hour spent watching TV (or staring at computer screens) not only alters brain development in a deleterious way, it's also an hour spent not learning conversational skills, socialization skills, teamwork skills, exploring and problem solving in the real world- things that encourage healthy brain development. Eventually that developmental window closes and the child is poorer for it.

One study I remember from the book tested retention of a story. One group of children had a story read to them by an adult. The other group of children watched an adult read the same story on TV. The group that watched it on TV did not remember as many details as the group that heard it from a live adult.

[aaron]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

I am not sure how well my kids will compete if they do not alter their brains to work and thrive in the digital age. It seems logical to assume that trends will continue and using computers and responding to flashing screens, etc. will be a general work requirement, much like reading today. So their mind bending is a good thing; at least that is what I tell myself to assuage the guilt.

I do see they are happy and laughing when they are Skyping. They still prefer to be out of the house if possible with their friends, but dad prefers they "hang out" at home. They are really quite lucky. I remember I had to fight with my sisters because they were always "hogging the phone"; that was a big problem back in the late nineteen hundreds. Now, kids can play online games with their friends, chat in groups, and actually see each other over distances. I see more socialization, not less.

There used to be quiet times where one just day-dreamed. I do not see that anymore. We are always busy. I see that getting worse. Will our collective creativity suffer?

[shiny!]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

There used to be quiet times where one just day-dreamed. I do not see that anymore. We are always busy. I see that getting worse. Will our collective creativity suffer?

I've noticed this, too. I've heard it called "the craziness of the busies."

And noise. Have you noticed all the noise? When I go out in public I'm assaulted by a constant barrage of music and ads. The parking lot at the mall pumps out music from speakers disguised as rocks. Inside the mall is more music.

The grocery store plays non-stop promotions over its loud speakers. They remind me of the insanely happy voice of the Heart of Gold ship in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Makes me want to scream, "SHADDUP!"

Chevron stations play music out at the pumps, competing with all the traffic noise. Do they really think people will buy their gas elsewhere if they allow a little silence?

I feel like someone's trying to keep us all pumped up on fake happy stimulators, like canned laughter on an unfunny sitcom.

The practice is spreading. Why? Were studies done showing that people are afraid of silence? Or maybe studies were done showing that bombarding us with constant input does something to us that makes us Buy More? Are there subliminals in all this electronic input? That last one sounds all tinfoil hatty, but nothing would surprise me at this point.

[seobook]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

[don]

Re: The Web Is Dying; Apps Are Killing It

Reading, as in other personal endeavors, appears to utilize a portion of the brain unique unto itself.

Despite our efforts, not all our children and grandchildren are readers.

The ones that are have a different way of thinking. Not necessarily better but different.

A greater ability to contemplate an issue, a willingness to delve deeper intellectually into problem solving.

Generally a good thing.