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  • OIl update

    Mmmm.........Oil price gets cut, shale gets killed......thus less production.....thus oil price climbs.





    Iran warns Opec indecision will hit oil prices as crude slumps

    Iranian oil adviser reminds group of production mistakes made in 1998 which sent crude to levels below $10 per barrel

    Iranian energy adviser Mehran Amirmoeini says failure of Opec to act could send oil tumbling Photo: Alamy









    By Andrew Critchlow, Commodities editor

    2:27PM BST 12 Oct 2014

    9 Comments


    Oil prices will slump further if the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec) repeats its mistakes of the 1990s and fails to cuts its production fast enough to cope with a glut of crude now flooding the international market, Iran's Oil Ministry has warned.


    "In 1998 inadequate reaction by Opec sent oil prices to as low as $6 to $8 per barrel," said Mehran Amirmoeini, a top energy adviser, quoted by the official Iranian Oil Ministry news service. “When the market is faced with falling demand and simultaneously rising supply, naturally some countries try to absorb customers by offering discounts.”


    Saudi Arabia and Iran, the two dominant forces within Opec, have both slashed their contract prices for crude shipped to Asia in the last few weeks amid a price war escalating amongst the world's biggest producers to grab market share.


    Brent crude - a global benchmark comprised of oil from 15 fields in the North Sea - fell briefly to a four-year low under $90 per barrel last week after it emerged that Saudi had boosted oil production by 100,000 barrels per day (bpd) last month.


    The move by Saudi Arabia comes amid growing signs that Opec - a group of 12 mainly Middle Eastern producers who control a third of the world's physical supply - is divided over how to manage the recent decline in prices and the erosion of their market dominance by shale oil drillers in the US.

    Related Articles



    Gulf states led by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are resisting calls to convene an emergency meeting ahead next month's planned gathering of Opec when the group will decide on its production quotas heading into the northern hemisphere winter, a period when global supplies can become tight depending on the weather.

    Iran also caused confusion in the market last week when it back-tracked on an earlier call to bring together Opec early to arrest the price decline.
    However, divisions in the cartel are deepening after Venezuela - the major South American producer - call last week for the meeting scheduled for November 27 to be brought forward.

    "The oil market is gradually beginning to panic," said Commerzbank analysts in a note to investors. "The price slide has doubtless become more speculative in nature of late as the deteriorating global economic outlook, growing risk aversion and ample supply prompts more and more market players to bet on falling prices."

    Opec has currently set its production ceiling at 30m bpd of crude and a decision to cut by around 500,000 bpd to balance the market if taken would be its first decision to trim output since December 2008.

    However, some analysts have suggested that Opec's biggest producers may be targeting lower oil prices in a move to win back market share from high-cost producers.

    The boom in shale oil in the US has reduced the cartel's share of the market in the world's largest economy. Recent research from Deutsche Bank has suggested that 9pc of US "tight oil" would be uneconomic at prices below $90 per barrel and around 40pc if the prices slips below $80.

  • #2
    Re: OIl update

    Originally posted by Mega View Post
    Mmmm.........Oil price gets cut, shale gets killed......thus less production.....thus oil price climbs.

    Iran warns Opec indecision will hit oil prices as crude slumps

    Iranian oil adviser reminds group of production mistakes made in 1998 which sent crude to levels below $10 per barrel....
    ....
    However, some analysts have suggested that Opec's biggest producers may be targeting lower oil prices in a move to win back market share from high-cost producers.

    The boom in shale oil in the US has reduced the cartel's share of the market in the world's largest economy. Recent research from Deutsche Bank has suggested that 9pc of US "tight oil" would be uneconomic at prices below $90 per barrel and around 40pc if the prices slips below $80.
    but yet ANOTHER theory on whats happnin?

    how about this one (seen at 0-cred today, really am gonna hafta start getting a real finance-news paper again, since the nyt seems to be all we're seeing - from this side of the pond - around here ...)

    Saudi Arabia's "Oil-Weapon" Hits Europe

    As The Wall Street Journal explains,


    Days after slashing prices in Asia, Saudi Arabia is now making an aggressive push in the European oil market, traders say.

    The kingdom is taking the unusual step of asking buyers to commit to maximum shipments if they want to get its crude.

    “The Saudi push is not just in Asia. It’s a global phenomenon,” one oil trader said. “They are using very aggressive tactics” in Europe too, the trader added.

    This month, state-owned Saudi Aramco stunned the rest of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries by slashing its November prices to defend its market share in Asia’s growing market. The move, setting a price war in the oil-production group, was combined with a boost in the kingdom’s output in September.

    But Riyadh is also moving to protect its sales to Europe, a declining market where it is facing rivalry from returning Libyan production.

    After cutting its November prices there, Saudi Aramco is also asking refiners to commit to full, fixed deliveries in talks to renew contracts for next year, the traders say. They say the Saudi oil company had previously offered a formula allowing flexibility of more or less 10% of contracted volumes, the most commonly used in the industry.

    “They are threatening buyers” to discontinue sales if they don’t agree with the fixed deliveries, another trader said.
    and then, theres this one - which starts to make the puzzle pieces fit?

    Why Oil Is Plunging: The Other Part Of The "Secret Deal" Between The US And Saudi Arabia

    Two weeks ago, we revealed one part of the "Secret Deal" between the US and Saudi Arabia: namely what the US 'brought to the table' as part of its grand alliance strategy in the middle east, which proudly revealed Saudi Arabia to be "aligned" with the US against ISIS, when in reality John Kerry was merely doing Saudi Arabia's will when the WSJ reported that "the process gave the Saudis leverage to extract a fresh U.S. commitment to beef up training for rebels fighting Mr. Assad, whose demise the Saudis still see as a top priority."

    What was not clear is what was the other part: what did the Saudis bring to the table, or said otherwise, how exactly it was that Saudi Arabia would compensate the US for bombing the Assad infrastructure until the hated Syrian leader was toppled, creating a power vacuum in his wake that would allow Syria, Qatar, Jordan and/or Turkey to divide the spoils of war as they saw fit.
    A glimpse of the answer was provided earlier in the article "The Oil Weapon: A New Way To Wage War", because at the end of the day it is always about oil, and leverage.
    The full answer comes courtesy of Anadolu Agency, which explains not only the big picture involving Saudi Arabia and its biggest asset, oil, but also the latest fracturing of OPEC at the behest of Saudi Arabia...

    and this interesting little slide (part of the above, orig from wsj.com)

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]5429[/ATTACH]
    looking like the ole 'chess game' is about to get waaaaaaay more complicated (than the beltway bozos can comprehend, never mind deal with effectively...)

    unless of course, KRASHING the markets is once again 'their' plan?

    better keep TIGHT HOLD on whats left of your 'dry powder' mr mike - methinks we're in for THE ROLLER COA$TER RIDE OF THE CENTURY tween now and xmas...
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: OIl update

      It's part of smacking Putin for his support for Assad, and all that drama in eastern Europe. "America bashing" seems to be the flavour this year, even here on iTulip. The pundits that keep saying "Putin has the upper hand" or "Putin has played his cards better than Obama" are going to be seriously embarrassed. The USA may not always get it right (the first time), but betting against the USA politically, financially or militarily is always, always, always desperately poor odds. What we read in the headlines is not representative of its real capabilities. I lived in the Middle East. There's lots that never makes the papers. There is no shortage of oil (a point I have made a number of times on other posts in the past couple of years). The Saudis are merely going through the motions to achieve a face-saving way (important in the greater Asia cultural context of the Middle East) to flood Europe so the Russian bear gets "bear hugged".

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: OIl update

        Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
        It's part of smacking Putin for his support for Assad, and all that drama in eastern Europe.

        "America bashing" seems to be the flavour this year, even here on iTulip. The pundits that keep saying "Putin has the upper hand" or "Putin has played his cards better than Obama" are going to be seriously embarrassed. The USA may not always get it right (the first time), but betting against the USA politically, financially or militarily is always, always, always desperately poor odds. What we read in the headlines is not representative of its real capabilities. I lived in the Middle East. There's lots that never makes the papers.

        There is no shortage of oil (a point I have made a number of times on other posts in the past couple of years). The Saudis are merely going through the motions to achieve a face-saving way to flood Europe so the Russian bear gets "bear hugged".
        Thanks for posting this. Nice to hear some sanity every now and then on Itulip.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: OIl update

          Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
          It's part of smacking Putin for his support for Assad, and all that drama in eastern Europe.

          "America bashing" seems to be the flavour this year, even here on iTulip. The pundits that keep saying "Putin has the upper hand" or "Putin has played his cards better than Obama" are going to be seriously embarrassed. The USA may not always get it right (the first time), but betting against the USA politically, financially or militarily is always, always, always desperately poor odds. What we read in the headlines is not representative of its real capabilities. I lived in the Middle East. There's lots that never makes the papers.

          There is no shortage of oil (a point I have made a number of times on other posts in the past couple of years). The Saudis are merely going through the motions to achieve a face-saving way (important in the greater Asia cultural context of the Middle East) to flood Europe so the Russian bear gets "bear hugged".
          Putin isn't abiding Fortress America rules. Judging by the beating that the ruble is taking, I'd say the strategy is working.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: OIl update

            I am convinced GRG is right as to the real motives of the oil price move. It happened before and contributed to the demise of the Soviet Union.
            The other target is the Venezuelan government. They are already in trouble and this is making things worse.
            And nothing bad about making the Iranians suffer.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: OIl update

              Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
              It's part of smacking Putin for his support for Assad, and all that drama in eastern Europe. "America bashing" seems to be the flavour this year, even here on iTulip. The pundits that keep saying "Putin has the upper hand" or "Putin has played his cards better than Obama" are going to be seriously embarrassed. The USA may not always get it right (the first time), but betting against the USA politically, financially or militarily is always, always, always desperately poor odds. What we read in the headlines is not representative of its real capabilities. I lived in the Middle East. There's lots that never makes the papers. There is no shortage of oil (a point I have made a number of times on other posts in the past couple of years). The Saudis are merely going through the motions to achieve a face-saving way (important in the greater Asia cultural context of the Middle East) to flood Europe so the Russian bear gets "bear hugged".
              Lower oil prices will hit Russia hard, just like they hit the SU in the 1980's. . Economic hard times in Russia may mean the end of Putin, and good riddance. Not a very original move, but a highly effective one---since Russia is so dependent on oil exports for economic prosperity.

              But europe still needs Russian Gas, and think about what Russia could do with that. But will not the lower prices bankrupt many of the Shale oil firms?

              As for betting against the US militarily, the more they get us to over extend ourselves, the more they accomplish their goals.
              Think how little the SU spent in on Vietnam, vs how much the US spent.

              As or America bashing, I don't claim we have a weak military, but we do have a highly corrupt financial system, hugely overpriced health care, a government that seems to be working for the banks, etc.

              I'd much rather have a weak military and a low cost health care system than what we have now. We'd be more like Canada!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: OIl update

                Originally posted by Polish_Silver View Post
                Lower oil prices will hit Russia hard, just like they hit the SU in the 1980's. . Economic hard times in Russia may mean the end of Putin, and good riddance. Not a very original move, but a highly effective one---since Russia is so dependent on oil exports for economic prosperity.

                But europe still needs Russian Gas, and think about what Russia could do with that. But will not the lower prices bankrupt many of the Shale oil firms?
                The whole objective is to make the European energy market a "buyers market". At least temporarily. That is one of the reasons Saudi is running a blocking move on other OPEC exporters, before it is too late. If this works, the utterly hopeless Gazprom will need European gas markets more than Europe will need unreliable Russian gas. China couldn't wish for a better outcome for itself.

                What will bankrupt the shale drillers is not low oil prices, but too much balance sheet leverage. The best of them will survive and thrive; the worst will disappear.

                Originally posted by Polish_Silver View Post
                I'd much rather have a weak military and a low cost health care system than what we have now. We'd be more like Canada!
                Canada is only capable of doing what it does because it can rely on the USA military.

                The Canadian Navy at your service:




                Last edited by GRG55; October 12, 2014, 08:13 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: OIl update

                  Originally posted by Polish_Silver View Post
                  Lower oil prices will hit Russia hard, just like they hit the SU in the 1980's. . Economic hard times in Russia may mean the end of Putin, and good riddance.
                  Not so sure. Somehow this led to a big popularity spike. We'll see if low oil backs them into a corner, and if so, how they react...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: OIl update

                    Oilprice.com: Can the US really compete with Saudi Arabia in terms of production?

                    Chris Faulkner: Sure, just as long as the Saudis will allow it. Don’t forget the Kingdom is still the world’s swing supplier, a role it’s held since the late 1970s. It’s important to remember that the Saudis not only have the largest proved reserves of oil, it’s also the largest repository—by far—of low-cost oil reserves. Much of Canada’s oil sands and US tight oil requires $75 per barrel or more to be economically viable. Saudi Arabia also needs $75 per barrel, but that’s to support its current domestic budget. The Kingdom’s lifting costs are somewhere around $5 at last report. So Saudi Arabia could easily flood the market, as it did in the early ‘80s, if it lost too much market share, dropping oil prices to $50 or less, and US drilling and production would collapse. Ideally, growing demand from China and other Asian markets will help sustain Saudi production levels and oil prices even as the Americas become self-sufficient in oil.
                    SA is trying to eliminate its newest/largest competition.

                    http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php/25265-IEA-US-shale-output-will-send-shock-waves-and-displace-OPEC/page4?p=258454&


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: OIl update

                      If you mean "competition" from USA domestic oil production (shale, or otherwise), I don't think this is correct.

                      Saudi Arabian exports of oil to the USA have been remarkably stable since 1989. Below is a table of the monthly data from the Energy Information Administration. Economic activity levels (e.g. recessions) appear to be the greatest influence within this 25 year range-bound pattern, as the very significant increases in USA domestic production since 2010 don't appear to have had much influence at all.


                      US IMPORTS FROM SAUDI ARABIA (Thousand Barrels per Day):

                      1989 1,449 1,290 1,108 1,226 1,155 1,249 1,182 1,316 1,109 1,158 1,342 1,115
                      1990 1,214 1,557 1,157 1,149 1,225 1,153 1,369 1,189 1,286 1,619 1,581 1,587
                      1991 1,934 1,566 1,683 1,764 2,258 1,841 1,725 2,019 1,708 1,671 1,778 1,645
                      1992 2,017 1,776 1,707 1,734 1,764 1,744 1,713 1,594 1,593 1,593 1,608 1,793
                      1993 1,688 1,626 1,479 1,644 1,524 1,540 1,283 1,151 1,329 1,115 1,281 1,330
                      1994 1,320 1,071 1,132 1,586 1,438 1,395 1,414 1,363 1,486 1,601 1,477 1,526
                      1995 1,309 1,181 1,535 1,375 1,281 1,287 1,265 1,340 1,474 1,260 1,429 1,378
                      1996 1,398 1,128 1,422 1,288 1,518 1,138 1,548 1,477 1,355 1,357 1,297 1,400
                      1997 1,344 1,361 1,292 1,573 1,475 1,299 1,313 1,636 1,599 1,377 1,308 1,311
                      1998 1,515 1,470 1,552 1,527 1,362 1,647 1,615 1,500 1,606 1,316 1,386 1,402
                      1999 1,511 1,497 1,652 1,482 1,502 1,539 1,436 1,474 1,441 1,353 1,396 1,455
                      2000 1,543 1,317 1,548 1,466 1,566 1,512 1,554 1,649 1,669 1,499 1,624 1,897
                      2001 1,804 1,800 1,788 1,658 1,770 1,764 1,713 1,835 1,478 1,432 1,543 1,370
                      2002 1,456 1,474 1,558 1,556 1,564 1,598 1,392 1,444 1,531 1,690 1,511 1,843
                      2003 1,841 1,447 1,886 2,070 2,305 2,002 1,900 1,535 1,749 1,451 1,681 1,410
                      2004 1,477 1,369 1,531 1,177 1,519 1,498 1,655 1,865 1,732 1,646 1,707 1,502
                      2005 1,653 1,574 1,651 1,514 1,580 1,596 1,692 1,589 1,390 1,351 1,370 1,472
                      2006 1,369 1,451 1,364 1,595 1,492 1,529 1,313 1,514 1,564 1,382 1,507 1,491
                      2007 1,542 1,163 1,244 1,488 1,614 1,534 1,436 1,499 1,560 1,411 1,620 1,686
                      2008 1,503 1,608 1,542 1,462 1,604 1,464 1,690 1,573 1,431 1,487 1,514 1,471
                      2009 1,362 1,118 967 1,057 1,102 959 1,046 729 1,045 943 858 877
                      2010 963 898 1,149 1,257 1,097 1,125 1,053 1,132 1,093 1,131 1,152 1,093
                      2011 1,101 1,114 1,108 1,107 1,203 1,169 1,326 1,075 1,479 1,120 1,222 1,310
                      2012 1,423 1,420 1,369 1,597 1,540 1,456 1,466 1,220 1,291 1,258 1,316 1,034
                      2013 979 1,032 1,284 1,109 1,440 1,431 1,318 1,332 1,557 1,362 1,563 1,520
                      2014 1,462 1,464 1,444 1,607 1,241 1,017 1,232

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: OIl update

                        Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post
                        Not so sure. Somehow this led to a big popularity spike. We'll see if low oil backs them into a corner, and if so, how they react...
                        It won't be a repeat of that earlier episode...but perhaps one of Mark Twain's history "rhymes".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: OIl update

                          Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                          It won't be a repeat of that earlier episode...but perhaps one of Mark Twain's history "rhymes".
                          what'll be even more hilarious?

                          if the ole oilpatch cowboys can 'save the day' (again... ;)

                          and i'm only 1/2 kidding (its the backroom cowboys in lwr manhattan i'm worried about)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: OIl update

                            Ok, so upshot is ..............Mega getting new car, does he need to worry about Gas costs over the next 5 years?

                            Mike

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: OIl update

                              Lower crude prices - in the short-term are welcome, but long-term the spell trouble for the major producers, who need to develop new plays. So, what is happening in mid-east needs to be analyzed slow and careful. How much is politics? How much commercial? Siamese twins - where one goes, so goeth the other? Russia has a long history of being 'pounded' by invaders - and chess is a popular 'sport'. They could 'afford' several winters, but could Europe? The US will not become 'self-sufficient' in oil unless it manages to reduce its daily, per capita consumption by one-half! Think that is feasible? Yeah, I thought so.

                              Something unusual appears to have happened (politically - in respect of mid-east) a few months back. Anyone got any insights?

                              Comment

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