Stem grads are at a loss?

[flintlock]

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articl...cant-find-jobs

Those who claim there's a STEM skills shortage are ignoring the evidence.

[aaron]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

Big corps want low wages for skilled jobs. They can whine that they need to import more workers from abroad. Let's face it, training workers is expensive. Companies do not want to do it.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

I remember back in 2012 Time had an article about how the skills gap was a myth from Peter Cappelli at the Wharton School.

He has done more work on this stuff than anybody so far as I know. And he sits on the opposite isle of me. I think he was a W. appointee or commissioner to revamp workforce education programs.

Anyways, when the guy who quite literally wrote the book on the skills gap in the 90s says it's a myth today, I'm not sure where the opposing argument is coming from.

[charliebrown]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

Read my post in http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...Off-US-Workers
My post refers to stem workers. After the 2000 tech boom, I know lots of high quality U.S. citizens workers who were down sized and moved to fire.
Comp Sci, Math, Chem E's, all bouncing around from job to job, in an eroding high skill economy. Some of them are now bankers, real estate, and teachers. Some that have found jobs, and then get down sized again a few years later. It's a hell of a way to raise a family. What does this do to the neighborhood and social structure?

A lot of these STEM jobs are thinking jobs. If you can think at your house 20 miles away and tele-commute, someone can think for you 10,000 miles away.
For a lot less money than you. Sorry, its the cold truth. I keep my job by working long hours and being instantly available. remote workers have a lag. They
cannot respond to immediate problems, due to time differences, contractual issues etc.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

Nice article. No surprise, just very depressing. I had no idea that such a large portion of the new hires in IT were from guest worker programs.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

Nice article. No surprise, just very depressing. I had no idea that such a large portion of the new hires in IT were from guest worker programs.

I can't find the article now but yesterday or the day before there was an article showing how the wages of foreign born workers has risen 6 to 12% more per annum than native born workers over the past 5/6 years.

Part of that is explained by most foreign born workers having the higher paying STEM jobs.

[LorenS]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

Those who claim there's a STEM skills shortage are ignoring the evidence.

Sorry, I've been in a technical field since 1988. You would be hard pressed to find anyone claiming a STEM shortage who is ignorant of the facts. Maybe a few elementary school teachers have been snowed, but anyone even remotely associated with the field knows the facts.

It generally boils down to two issues. Experience and location. I've seen 100% qualified candidates passed over because they did not want to move (from existing company locations nonetheless) and/or because their resume did not win the buzzword bingo test. I'm not talking about people who would need "training". I'm talking people who just need some time to refocus or who don't have the correct college degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzzword_bingo

[BK]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

Ride the train into New York City from the New Jersey further out suburbs and you will find yourself surrounded by H1 visa employees predominately from India.

Know a guy who was at one point a software engineer for Wellfleet routers and found out he was too expensive in the doom-gloom of the DotCom bust.

[charliebrown]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

I would estimate half of our workforce is h1 visa types. Most to the other half are project managers. I am one of the few techies not on an H1.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

Sorry, I've been in a technical field since 1988. You would be hard pressed to find anyone claiming a STEM shortage who is ignorant of the facts. Maybe a few elementary school teachers have been snowed, but anyone even remotely associated with the field knows the facts.

It generally boils down to two issues. Experience and location. I've seen 100% qualified candidates passed over because they did not want to move (from existing company locations nonetheless) and/or because their resume did not win the buzzword bingo test. I'm not talking about people who would need "training". I'm talking people who just need some time to refocus or who don't have the correct college degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzzword_bingo

This is a slight digression on the topic, but your mention of location made me think of this.

Another strategy employed by the larger corporations is to move entire programs from one state to another in a different region of thecountry – which easily accomplishes the “wage control” goal as well.

My sister went through this recently where she works. The program (note, this is a defense contractor, it may not apply to all companies) was moved from the northeast to the south. No particular reason or benefit from the move, there is limited production related to it, it is mostly engineers doing the thinking designing testing thing…..the folks most able to justify making the move with the program were those with the weakest ties to the area. Those with kids in middle school and especially high school were reluctant to make the move….so they either find work somewhere else locally, or they wait until they are laid off and hope they can cover their living expenses via their spouse while they take more time to find new work. Maybe folks near retirement with empty nests make the move too but for those with kids in school, it is a very tough move to make.

The end result is that as the same program is moved to elsewhere in the country, they manage to reduce their overall salary costs.

Kind of insidious.

Deliberate age discrimination under the cover of corporate restructuring.

[ddn3f]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

This is another way to reduce manpower and close positions, especially managerial. You have noticed the older workers with higher pay do not want to move. So when the division moves and those folks stay, those positions will be removed. So basically you have less people and overall people with lower pay. No wonder young folks do not want to establish roots and buy a house.

This is a slight digression on the topic, but your mention of location made me think of this.

Another strategy employed by the larger corporations is to move entire programs from one state to another in a different region of thecountry – which easily accomplishes the “wage control” goal as well.

My sister went through this recently where she works. The program (note, this is a defense contractor, it may not apply to all companies) was moved from the northeast to the south. No particular reason or benefit from the move, there is limited production related to it, it is mostly engineers doing the thinking designing testing thing…..the folks most able to justify making the move with the program were those with the weakest ties to the area. Those with kids in middle school and especially high school were reluctant to make the move….so they either find work somewhere else locally, or they wait until they are laid off and hope they can cover their living expenses via their spouse while they take more time to find new work. Maybe folks near retirement with empty nests make the move too but for those with kids in school, it is a very tough move to make.

The end result is that as the same program is moved to elsewhere in the country, they manage to reduce their overall salary costs.

Kind of insidious.

Deliberate age discrimination under the cover of corporate restructuring.

[Polish_Silver]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

Another strategy employed by the larger corporations is to move entire programs from one state to another in a different region of thecountry – which easily accomplishes the “wage control” goal as well.

.

Kind of insidious.

Deliberate age discrimination under the cover of corporate restructuring.

I don't think it's insidious, at least not in all cases. Those jobs can only be in one place. So why is not a southern, low living cost and lower salary place just as valid as a northern high living cost and high salary place?

The salaries are higher partly because there are more jobs relative to the workers available. So arguably, the company is increasing justice by offering jobs where they are more needed.
It is just econ 101 that you move jobs to where there are more workers available. Think about how expensive housing is in parts of New Jersey, Silicon Valley, other "prestige" locations. Why put a job there instead of somewhere where the housing is 1/3 the cost?

[Polish_Silver]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

This is another way to reduce manpower and close positions, especially managerial. You have noticed the older workers with higher pay do not want to move. So when the division moves and those folks stay, those positions will be removed. So basically you have less people and overall people with lower pay. No wonder young folks do not want to establish roots and buy a house.

I would agree that it works that way sometimes. But if the underlying reason is that the company wants to get rid of older workers (or reduce their pay) why is their not an orderly way to do that? I have heard of pay cuts being used!

[Polish_Silver]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

Big corps want low wages for skilled jobs. They can whine that they need to import more workers from abroad. Let's face it, training workers is expensive. Companies do not want to do it.

In my experience, the small corps are the most aggressive about exploiting this possibility. I'm sure it boils down to the worldview of the company leadership. But it's hard to fault them for getting the most employee for the least money within the existing system. Change the damn system!

[ddn3f]

Re: Stem grads are at a loss?

Pay cuts across the board hurts moral for everyone. But moving a whole division gives workers a choice. They get to feel in control of their situation, either to move and take the new job or basically quit. By giving the workers a choice to quit and having a lot of them quit on their own instead of moving saves a lot of headaches. I would say that is a better way to reduce employee costs than pay cuts or layoffs. It keeps moral high.

I would agree that it works that way sometimes. But if the underlying reason is that the company wants to get rid of older workers (or reduce their pay) why is their not an orderly way to do that? I have heard of pay cuts being used!