Will Scotland Become the New Cuba?

[GRG55]

Re: Will Scotland Become the New Cuba?

Hope you didn't tell them how small it is and mention the chintzy gift shop

Chintzy? You mean you can't buy an authentic replica of Crockett's rifle there?

[don]

Re: Will Scotland Become the New Cuba?

Chintzy? You mean you can't buy an authentic replica of Crockett's rifle there?

To avoid an unpleasant incident leaving the shop with the rifle, it's prudent to be wearing a coonskin cap (found just to the left of the cashier).

[don]

Re: Will Scotland Become the New Cuba?

The old threat and promise routine . . . .

LONDON — With two days of fevered campaigning left before Scotland votes in a referendum on independence, the leaders of the three main British political parties renewed a pledge on Tuesday to grant Scots “extensive new powers” if they reject secession.

The pledge, in a letter published in The Daily Record newspaper in Scotland, came a day after Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain offered Scots a different message, telling them that if they vote for independence on Thursday “there’s no going back from this, no rerun.”

“If Scotland votes yes, the U.K. will split, and we will go our separate ways forever,” he told an audience of Scottish supporters of his Conservative Party. “Independence would not be a trial separation, it would be a painful divorce.”


and if they should vote for independence, who's not to say they may secretly be developing WMD . . . .

[Polish_Silver]

Go texas!

2. If its people so choose, Texas can at any time secede from the USA.

These two conditions have always given Texans a way out if they ever feel too dissatisfied with Washington; it's their ace in the hole. I think the psychological effect of this has been that Texans feel just a little more "free" than the average citizen. Less likely to resign themselves to federal control and serfdom.

With major friction over unpopular EPA rules hitting their energy and agricultural sectors, with Washington aiding and abetting an invasion of their southern border that is costing them a fortune, sentiment among a lot of Texans is currently running pretty high in the dissatisfaction camp.

With all the fanfare, I did not know that Texas could legally secede from the union. I hope they do it! The national government has failed to address major problems for decades. They would be shedding a level of bureaucracy, but at the same time facing fresh challenges: retirements, health care. If the state government is highly functional, they may teach us all a lesson.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Go texas!

With all the fanfare, I did not know that Texas could legally secede from the union. I hope they do it! The national government has failed to address major problems for decades. They would be shedding a level of bureaucracy, but at the same time facing fresh challenges: retirements, health care. If the state government is highly functional, they may teach us all a lesson.

I believe they did exactly that on February 23, 1861.

[shiny!]

Re: Go texas!

I believe they did exactly that on February 23, 1861.

No, not exactly. In 1861 Texas seceeded to join the Confederacy which was at war with the United States. The question is, how would the federal government react today to a peaceful secession that is not an act of war?

[don]

Re: Go texas!

No, not exactly. In 1861 Texas seceeded to join the Confederacy which was at war with the United States. The question is, how would the federal government react today to a peaceful secession that is not an act of war?

See Waco . . . .

Meanwhile back in Scotland:

Scotch on the rocks: whisky makers warned of independence risks


and in further developments, there's a chance the sun will no longer shine if Scotland votes for independence . . . .

[GRG55]

Re: Will Scotland Become the New Cuba?

The old threat and promise routine . . . .

LONDON — With two days of fevered campaigning left before Scotland votes in a referendum on independence, the leaders of the three main British political parties renewed a pledge on Tuesday to grant Scots “extensive new powers” if they reject secession.

The pledge, in a letter published in The Daily Record newspaper in Scotland, came a day after Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain offered Scots a different message, telling them that if they vote for independence on Thursday “there’s no going back from this, no rerun.”

“If Scotland votes yes, the U.K. will split, and we will go our separate ways forever,” he told an audience of Scottish supporters of his Conservative Party. “Independence would not be a trial separation, it would be a painful divorce.”


and if they should vote for independence, who's not to say they may secretly be developing WMD . . . .

1. "Extensive new powers" usually means extensive new industrial and social program subsidies from party central...

2. As for WMDs, aren't the Scots the originators of these? Haggis, bagpipes and Adam Smith (the last being an inconvenience to the "extensive new powers" grantors).

[dcarrigg]

Re: Will Scotland Become the New Cuba?

1. "Extensive new powers" usually means extensive new industrial and social program subsidies from party central...

2. As for WMDs, aren't the Scots the originators of these? Haggis, bagpipes and Adam Smith (the last being an inconvenience to the "extensive new powers" grantors).

Don't forget golf, kilts, and Dewars.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Go texas!

Yeah. The fear mongering is so obvious at this point that I wonder if it won't backfire.

The Week today is already calling the vote: "A final battle between hope and fear."

Who knows. Like I said before, the yes campaign was always a longshot and in other similar votes in other countries, undecideds tend to break for the status quo.

But the way the no campaign has been run is awful, even if it ends up being victorious.

[GRG55]

Re: Will Scotland Become the New Cuba?

Don't forget golf, kilts, and Dewars.

Mine's bigger than yours Cameron...

[santafe2]

Re: Go texas!

Yeah. The fear mongering is so obvious at this point that I wonder if it won't backfire.

The Week today is already calling the vote: "A final battle between hope and fear."

Who knows. Like I said before, the yes campaign was always a longshot and in other similar votes in other countries, undecideds tend to break for the status quo.

But the way the no campaign has been run is awful, even if it ends up being victorious.

The good folks of Caledonia may just be sick and tired of the attitude. I know we were... If they do vote yes, we won't hold it against them for inventing driving on the "wrong" side of the road. But it would be sweet if they switched to the right side to confirm their move away from Lizzy. But first things first.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Go texas!

I'm going to overly stereotype here. And obviously this doesn't apply to everyone. But there are southern/northern cultural differences. Hell, even what we learn in school is different. And I think that's why any talk of southern secession will never play out peacefully. Not in my lifetime. Probably not in several lifetimes.

There are just too many remembrances of a past not buried yet. Us Yankees would find a moral reason not to let Texas go. The wounds from the last split still haven't healed all the way. Hell, just look at an election map. The same old split's still evident. And now-a-days the Voting Rights Act of 65 is back in play. A legit contender for the 2016 throne has publicly questioned Title 2 of the Civil Rights Act of 64, even though he backed off. To many a Yankee ear, this stuff brings up thoughts of Jim Crow like ringing a bell for pavlov's dog.

There's no peaceful exit. Not for a former member of the Confederacy. Not in the minds of moralizing Yankees. With organizations like the League of the South speaking loudly in favor of the secession charge, the same old story lines would be trotted out again. Comparisons to Davis and Lincoln would be made instantaneously. The spectre of slavery would arise. I'd be willing to bet that there'd probably be popular support in the north for 'crushing the insurrection.'

That's just the way it is. If there ever is to be a peaceful state secession from the Republic of the United States of America, it can't be a former Confederate state first.

The mutual suspicion is just too deep for it to ever end peacefully. Since at least the days of the radical Republicans, there has been a deep suspicion of southern racial motivations in the Yankee mind. And since about the same time I think there has been a deep suspicion of moralizing Yankees getting involved in affairs that aren't their own in the Southern mind.

Vermont could leave tomorrow, and I don't figure that many Southerners would pay it much mind. Maybe the first thing on the minds of many would be, "Why not us too?"

Texas could leave tomorrow, and many Northerners would dwell on whatever they imagine are the evil machinations they might be getting up to. Maybe the first thing on the minds of many would be, "We should stop them before they hurt people."

And I think that's just the way it is, justified or not.

And sorry if it seems insensitive to anyone. It's really not meant to be. It's just something I think is probably a cultural reality.

There would be intense northern resistance to even the idea that a former Confederate state should be allowed a vote on matters of secession.

[santafe2]

Re: Go texas!

Texas could leave tomorrow...

And like any other state they'd be a 3rd world country in a few years. No nukes, no exorbitant privilege and no Willie Nelson. Good luck Texas, Mexico has a score to settle. Y'all better learn to speak Spanish.

[Polish_Silver]

Re: Go texas!

And like any other state they'd be a 3rd world country in a few years. No nukes, no exorbitant privilege and no Willie Nelson. Good luck Texas, Mexico has a score to settle. Y'all better learn to speak Spanish.

I disagree. Breakaways have been highly successful: Singapore, Slovakia, the baltic states (From USSR).

Exorbitant privilege helps the 1%, harms everyone else. They would be forced to balance the budget--a very beneficial thing in the long run.