Finally proof that Russia is invading Ukraine!

[touchring]

Re: Consequential Indeed

I just don't know about a genuine Russian/Saudi synergy.

Genuine or not, I think the Saudi is more valuable as an ally than the Iranians to the Russians in that one gives you money while the other sucks money from you.

The best thing is that the new found US "ally" just said: "the aggressive and criminal U.S".

If you can't fight them, join them!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015...united-states/

[touchring]

Re: Consequential Indeed

Duplicate

[touchring]

Re: Consequential Indeed

BUK producer detonates missiles next to pilot’s cockpit in full-scale MH17 experiment


In my opinion, the best evidence that MH17 was not shot down by a missile.

A missile produces thousands of tiny holes as can been seen from the experiment.

In comparison, these are the images from the actual cockpit of MH17. Even a 5 year old child can spot the difference.

[vt]

Re: Consequential Indeed

Proves nothing. The missile could have hit the plane further back.

Here's the official report. Conclusion is that the plane was brought down by a ground to air missile:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-the-russians/

[touchring]

Re: Consequential Indeed

Proves nothing. The missile could have hit the plane further back.

Here's the official report. Conclusion is that the plane was brought down by a ground to air missile:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-the-russians/

I haven't handled fragmentation explosives, but from a layman point of view, if the missile exploded from a further distance, the plane would still be sprayed with thousands of tiny holes but that will cover the entire cockpit almost evenly.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Consequential Indeed

From what I gather is it was supposed to prove the extent of Russian involvement. Russia was accused of bringing in the BUK and then hauling it out. The fragment pattern does not match what is now current in the Russian arsenal since 2011. Ukraine has them in active service. That of course was not enough since the head line was already written that Putin personally launched the missile. So this is not disputing the BUK, just what kind of BUK and it coming from the Russian arsenal. Given that it is very likely the rebels captured them and Ukraine has them its a Ukrainian of one side or the other. While I think it is more likely a rebel who fired it I would not discount that there was a hope to bait them onto it.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Consequential Indeed

From long experience of the flying community and the professionalism of the people charged with accurately defining what exactly occurred, all these questions will be answered when the final report of the criminal investigating team is delivered. Until then, everything has to remain speculation.

[touchring]

Re: Consequential Indeed

There are 2 possibilities, either the Ukrainians shot it down, or the Rebels shot it down. I'm open to both possibilities.

However, there are several points that makes me think (as a third unrelated party) that one party has a higher suspicion than the other.

1). The MH17 plane looked like a Russian Aeroflot plane. I'm sure both the Rebels and Ukrainian military knows about this.






2). The sudden MSM and Whitehouse silence on the topic as more evidence came out is very strange as if Rebels were to be culpable, the MSM can't wait to slam Russia.


3). The rebels controlled only a tiny strip of territory and it would be difficult to track the plane, make a decision to shoot it down and prepare the missile within the small period of time (less than 5 minutes) the plane was over rebel territory. On the other hand, the Ukrainian arm forces radar would be able to track the plane for a reasonable period of 15-20 minutes, sufficient to do all this and shoot it down.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Consequential Indeed

This thread has gone thenway of this forum I'm afraid.

Meaning,mths value of it has significantly diminished.

The only value I see in it is as an example of disruptive 1st and 2nd order effects of propaganda.

[Woodsman]

Re: Consequential Indeed

...The only value I see in it is as an example of disruptive 1st and 2nd order effects of propaganda.

Which one? Ours or theirs?

Misinformation campaign targets USA TODAY reporter, editor

By Gregory Korte, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON – A USA TODAY reporter and editor investigating Pentagon propaganda contractors have themselves been subjected to a propaganda campaign of sorts, waged on the Internet through a series of bogus websites.

Fake Twitter and Facebook accounts have been created in their names, along with a Wikipedia entry and dozens of message board postings and blog comments. Websites were registered in their names.

The timeline of the activity tracks USA TODAY's reporting on the military's "information operations" program, which spent hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan — campaigns that have been criticized even within the Pentagon as ineffective and poorly monitored.

.

On Thursday, Defense Department extreme technology arm Darpa unveiled its Social Media in Strategic Communication (SMISC) program. It’s an attempt to get better at both detecting and conducting propaganda campaigns on social media. SMISC has two goals. First, the program needs to help the military better understand what’s going on in social media in real time — particularly in areas where troops are deployed. Second, Darpa wants SMISC to help the military play the social media propaganda game itself.

Pentagon Wants a Social Media Propaganda Machine

.

Congressmen Seek To Lift Propaganda Ban

Propaganda that was supposed to target foreigners could now be aimed at Americans, reversing a longstanding policy. “Disconcerting and dangerous,” says Shank.

The amendment would “strike the current ban on domestic dissemination” of propaganda material produced by the State Department and the independent Broadcasting Board of Governors, according to the summary of the law at the House Rules Committee’s official website.

The tweak to the bill would essentially neutralize two previous acts—the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948 and Foreign Relations Authorization Act in 1987—that had been passed to protect U.S. audiences from our own government’s misinformation campaigns.

The bi-partisan amendment is sponsored by Rep. Mac Thornberry from Texas and Rep. Adam Smith from Washington State.

[touchring]

Re: Consequential Indeed

This thread has gone thenway of this forum I'm afraid.

Meaning,mths value of it has significantly diminished.

The only value I see in it is as an example of disruptive 1st and 2nd order effects of propaganda.

Time will tell if my suspicions are correct.

There's a lot of propaganda going on. The war against terror is one huge propaganda. We thought we knew that after Iraq and that we won't be fooled again but yes, we've been fooled once more in Syria. The war against ISIS turned out to be a "military fraud", nothing more than target practice for training pilots, without achieving any military objectives.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Consequential Indeed

Time will tell if my suspicions are correct.

There's a lot of propaganda going on. The war against terror is one huge propaganda. We thought we knew that after Iraq and that we won't be fooled again but yes, we've been fooled once more in Syria. The war against ISIS turned out to be a "military fraud", nothing more than target practice for training pilots, without achieving any military objectives.

I know we are in a locker.






However what is it really about?
Is the war on terror to remove our civil rights?
Is it to undermine Russia or all of Asia?
Is to actually create a multi polar world? Don't both the American and Russian governments benefit? Putin protects Russians from the US and our government protects us from Putin?

All of these herd the cattle but which one determines where are we being herded...

A farm is a group animals all perusing their own self interest. Its an arrangement that requires no directions or conspiracies. All it is is an arrangement where all the animal do what they naturally do. All ya need to do is throw some nuts in the flower bed and let the squirrels dig it up. Yet few seem to realize how easily this can be accomplished by a few very powerful people.

[touchring]

Re: Consequential Indeed

You got the point. As the saying goes - power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Contrary to popular belief, on the whole, democracy is receding throughout the world. War and tension is the best excuse for governments to impose absolute power over their citizens, whether it is Russia, the Middle East, the US or China or Ukraine.

However what is it really about?
Is the war on terror to remove our civil rights?
Is it to undermine Russia or all of Asia?
Is to actually create a multi polar world? Don't both the American and Russian governments benefit? Putin protects Russians from the US and our government protects us from Putin?

All of these herd the cattle but which one determines where are we being herded...

A farm is a group animals all perusing their own self interest. Its an arrangement that requires no directions or conspiracies. All it is is an arrangement where all the animal do what they naturally do. All ya need to do is throw some nuts in the flower bed and let the squirrels dig it up. Yet few seem to realize how easily this can be accomplished by a few very powerful people.