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Finally proof that Russia is invading Ukraine!

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  • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

    A Diplomatic Victory, and Affirmation, for Putin
    The New York Times, by David M. Herszenhorn
    MAY 15, 2015



    MOSCOW — For Russia, victory came three days after Victory Day, in the form of Secretary of State John Kerry’s visit this week to the Black Sea resort city of Sochi. It was widely interpreted here as a signal of surrender by the Americans — an olive branch from President Obama, and an acknowledgment that Russia and its leader are simply too important to ignore.

    Since the seizure of Crimea more than a year ago, Mr. Obama has worked aggressively to isolate Russia and its renegade president, Vladimir V. Putin, portraying him as a lawless bully atop an economically failing, increasingly irrelevant petrostate.

    Mr. Obama led the charge by the West to punish Mr. Putin for his intervention in Ukraine, booting Russia from the Group of 8 economic powers, imposing harsh sanctions on some of Mr. Putin’s closest confidants and delivering financial and military assistance to the new Ukrainian government.

    In recent months, however, Russia has not only weathered those attacks and levied painful countersanctions on America’s European allies, but has also proved stubbornly important on the world stage. That has been true especially in regard to Syria, where its proposal to confiscate chemical weapons has kept President Bashar al-Assad, a Kremlin ally, in power, and in the negotiations that secured a tentative deal on Iran’s nuclear program.

    Mr. Putin, who over 15 years as Russia’s paramount leader has consistently confounded his adversaries, be they foreign or domestic, once again seems to be emerging on top — if not as an outright winner in his most recent confrontation with the West, then certainly as a national hero, unbowed, firmly in control, and having surrendered nothing, especially not Crimea, his most coveted prize.

    “Putin is looking pretty smart right now,” said Matthew Rojansky, director of the Kennan Institute, a Washington research group focused on Russia and the former Soviet Union.

    Mr. Rojansky cautioned that Mr. Putin’s seemingly strengthened position could prove illusory. The economy is in recession and remains dangerously reliant on energy sources, and most analysts say the long-term outlook for oil and gas prices is bleak.

    Although Mr. Putin may look smart at the moment, Mr. Rojansky said, none of this was necessarily by design, adding, “It doesn’t necessarily teach us anything fundamentally about him or how his system works.”

    Nevertheless, with oil prices seeming at least to have stabilized after a modest recovery, and the ruble rebounding so strongly from a late autumn collapse that the Russian Central Bank has begun buying dollars to keep it from appreciating further, the Western economic sanctions seem to have fallen short.

    Meanwhile, a cease-fire is mostly holding in eastern Ukraine, limiting casualties and vastly increasing pressure on President Petro O. Poroshenko of Ukraine, who so far has been unable to deliver the increased autonomy for the pro-Russian regions of Donetsk and Luhansk that was called for in the truce agreement brokered by France and Germany.

    The subtle shift by the Obama administration reflects a pragmatic recognition that the policy of isolating Russia, economically and diplomatically, is failing, analysts say.


    Kerry lays a wreath at a World War II memorial in Sochi

    Continued...

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    • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

      The real reason is because Ukraine is starting to ask for money.

      Ukraine's "American" Finance Minister asking for Cash.

      Comment


      • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

        Who is the chap to the left of that photo and what omen does that portend with the double eagle perched atop his head?

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        • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

          Who could have guessed?



          http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...nalCode=cele20

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          • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

            The Ukrainians are still living in the 1991.

            A lot has changed since 1991. They are barking up the wrong tree.

            http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-c...t-2015-5?IR=T&

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            • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

              Originally posted by gwynedd1 View Post
              Who could have guessed?
              Kerry, Nuland, et. al. travel to Sochi where they meet with Putin for over 4 hours. Afterwards Kerry issues a statement strongly cautioning Poroshenko against escalation and saying that the Minsk Agreement - negotiated by Russia - was the only way to move ahead.

              And look, all smiles now and shaking of hands.



              To think mere months ago he was the reincarnation of evil.

              Guess the isolate Russia strategy is in the round file. So too is the discredit and demonize Putin policy. I expect Amb. Nuland will be returning to the private sector soon, no?

              Comment


              • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

                Originally posted by Woodsman View Post
                To think mere months ago he was the reincarnation of evil.

                Guess the isolate Russia strategy is in the round file. So too is the discredit and demonize Putin policy. I expect Amb. Nuland will be returning to the private sector soon, no?


                The bankers had their chance and were defeated.

                http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv...ky-384407.html

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                • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

                  Originally posted by touchring View Post
                  The bankers had their chance and were defeated.

                  http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv...ky-384407.html

                  "The government of an exclusive company of merchants is, perhaps, the worst of all governments for any country whatever."


                  The above is another on of those Adam Smith quotes where upon using it I am often accused of being a Marxist. It is a double insult considering I well know someone had to finance Marxism.

                  Ukraine is now exibit A.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

                    Originally posted by gwynedd1 View Post
                    "The government of an exclusive company of merchants is, perhaps, the worst of all governments for any country whatever."


                    The above is another on of those Adam Smith quotes where upon using it I am often accused of being a Marxist. It is a double insult considering I well know someone had to finance Marxism.

                    Ukraine is now exibit A.

                    I'm not for Marxism, but uncontrolled capitalism will ultimately lead to anarchy.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

                      Originally posted by touchring View Post
                      I'm not for Marxism, but uncontrolled capitalism will ultimately lead to anarchy.

                      "uncontrolled capitalism"

                      Sort of screams for a proper definition and it is something rarely seen in nature( by my proposed definition), like a piece of iron that will soon turn into rust. . Uncontrolled capitalism matures to controlled capitalism by monopolists. They soon reach a point where they more or less can just control the state.

                      Take a star professional athlete. During their career they earn in a somewhat completive environment. I would consider that an uncontrolled, natural form of income. The smart, successful one's convert their earning into building their estates. Estates are all about control at the sovereign level. Progressive capitalist states by my estimation stagnate and die due to the large estate problem.

                      So there is never really uncontrolled capitalism for long. Capitalism breeds money seeking refuge. Money seeking refuge will ultimately find its way making state policy to preserve large estates.


                      Hence the estate tax lobby.

                      http://archive.fortune.com/2010/12/2...tune/index.htm

                      Primitive Rome was conditionally designed to divide lands. However the powers of a Roman testator increased which resulted in the large estate problem.


                      http://www.constitution.org/cm/sol_27.htm#001

                      The indefinite permission of making a will which had been granted to the Romans, ruined little by little the political regulation on the division of lands; it was the principal thing that introduced the fatal difference between riches and poverty: many shares were united in the same person; some citizens had too much, and a multitude of others had nothing. Thus the people being continually deprived of their shares were incessantly calling out for a new distribution of lands. They demanded it in an age when the frugality, the parsimony and the poverty of the Romans were their distinguishing characteristics; as well as at a time when their luxury had become still more astonishing.


                      Thus the capitalist seeks monopoly. However a monopoly must be converted into a permanent estate which requires political activity until such estates are secured. Then commerce must slowly die.
                      Last edited by gwynedd1; May 20, 2015, 12:42 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

                        The government seeks a monopoly too.

                        It makes no difference if it communism, fascism, socialism, or unrestrained capitalism. In all case a small elite control everything and become obscenely wealthy.

                        The problem with communism and fascism is that they control the guns so you have no choice. Socialists promote a government elite, unrestrained capitalists a corporate elite.

                        The best choice is a fairly regulated free market economy where those that violate reasonable regulations go to jail with no get-out-of-jail card.

                        Socialism is boring and restrains growth and national wealth. A free market economy can produce far more GDP that can pay for more government programs with lower taxes.

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                        • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

                          Originally posted by vt View Post
                          The government...
                          Goodness! Did you happen to be near that Philly train crash?

                          Comment


                          • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

                            The other point is Ukraine is a strategic error to begin with. While everyone was focusing on Kiev, ISIL took the opportunity to slip into Mosul, just 1,500 ISIL fighters were able to chase away a 20k strong Iraqi army.

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norther...28June_2014%29

                            To make the matter worst, there was a subsequent MSM cover up of the severity of the situation in Mosol and northern Iraq, which continued until today.

                            1 year after Mosul was lost, we are told that Ramadi, which is like 2hours drive from Baghdad, has fallen.

                            With the performance of the Iraqi army until now, which I think is worst than the Kiev's army, there's no way the coalition can save Baghdad from falling unless the US sends in tens of thousands of boots on ground to defend the city.

                            I suspect that Putin took the hard line stance on Ukraine by backing the separatists because he knows that the US will be scrwed by ISIL in Iraq and will come running to him for a truce and then ask for help to counter the Islamist in Iraq and Syria.
                            Last edited by touchring; May 20, 2015, 08:01 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

                              What will happen is tens of thousands of Iranian troops, and a wider religious internecine war in the region.

                              Why would Kerry meet with Putin?

                              http://www.russia-direct.org/debates...v-game-changer

                              Could it be that the U.S. and Russia recognize radical Islam as the main shared problem? Let the radicals of the faith beat up on each other, so they cause less problems for the major powers.

                              Meanwhile China is starting to act:

                              http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...thing-on-buses

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                              • Re: Ukraine Gas Deal

                                Why was a government employee with only three weeks experience on this route going twice the speed limit?

                                http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/amt...lphone-n362141

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