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The "West" shows how far its willing to go to stop Russia & save the $..........
Mike
Mike
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
Senator McCain finds a camera:Originally posted by Mega View Post
http://ktar.com/22/1751188/Sen-John-...ight-shot-down"To leap to conclusions could be very embarrassing and really inappropriate until we have more information," he told NBC's Andrea Mitchell. "But there have been, as you mentioned, previous incidents of shot down of Ukrainian aircraft. This was an airliner headed towards Russian air space. And it has the earmarks, and I'm not concluding, but it has the earmarks of a mistaken identification of an aircraft that they may have believed was Ukrainian.
"If that's true, this is a horrible tragedy event which was certainly unanticipated by anybody, no matter who they are," he said. "And there will be incredible repercussions if this is the case. Exactly what those will be will have to be determined by how we find out who was responsible."
McCain added, "If it is a result of either separatists or Russian actions mistakingly believing that this was a Ukrainian warplane, I think there's going to be hell to pay and there should be."
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
There should be plenty of forensic information - wreckage pattern (if blown out of the sky it would be strewn over a large area), condition of the debris (signs of an explosion), the black box, eye witnesses to the plane's descent, etc. Unless it all disappears, of course, something we've never witnessed at a potential crime scene . . . right?
Whoever controls the crash site may control the story.Comment
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
Originally posted by Woodsman View Post
Well, he does have experience with crashed planes.Comment
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
McCain added, "If it is a result of either separatists or Russian actions mistakingly believing that this was a Ukrainian warplane, I think there's going to be hell to pay and there should be."
And what if it was shot down by Ukrainian forces?Comment
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
Eye witnesses are saying the plane exploded in mid-air. No word so far of a missile sighting. Bomb onboard the plane cannot be ruled out. Forensics may determined if the explosion was internal or external.Comment
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
from Mish - at least people are skeptical today. In the past they would have swallowed the MSM line verbatim . . . .
Moments ago a Malaysian BA 777 Passenger Jet Crashed in Ukraine. 280 passengers and 15 crew were killed. The plane was at an altitude of about 33,000 feet.
According to the Financial Times Anatoly Geraschenko, an adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister, said in a Facebook posting "Using a zenith-rocket Buk system, the terrorists just downed a passenger airline heading from Kuala-Lampur to Amsterdam".
How likely is that statement?
Reader Jacob Dreizin, a US citizen who speaks Russian and reads Ukrainian, just pinged me with this comment.
The rebels have never claimed to have an air defense system with that kind of altitude capability. Neither have they been known to have shot down any Ukrainian military aircraft flying above 6000 meters. So we are talking some heavy duty weaponry here.Siberia Airlines Flight 1812
The only other civilian airliner to have been shot down over Ukrainian airspace was the Siberian Airlines flight from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk in 2001. Ultimately that was found to be the handiwork of a poorly-coordinated Ukrainian air defense exercise.
Kiev eventually paid out compensation to the victims' families. So I would not be too surprised if the Ukranians "did it again." But neither would I jump to conclusions.
Please consider the fate of Siberia Airlines Flight 1812Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 crashed over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The plane, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. No one on board survived. The crash site is some 190 km west-southwest of the Black Sea resort of Sochi and 140 km north of the Turkish coastal town of Fatsa and 350 km east-southeast of Feodosiya, Ukraine.Did Ukraine Do It Again?
Ukrainian military officials initially denied that their missile had brought down the plane. However, Ukrainian officials later admitted that it was indeed their military that shot down the airliner.
Like Jacob, I would not be surprised, especially given the rebels do not claim ownership of a missile system capable of hitting that altitude.
Repeating my earlier comments before I even heard from Jacob ... "I do not know who is responsible, but it sure seems Ukrainian officials jumped to conclusions, especially since this was the second disaster this year to hit Malaysian Airlines."
A shoulder fired missile cannot reach that altitude, but a Buk Missile System could.
From WikipediaThe Buk missile system (Russian: "Бук"; beech, /bʊk/ BOOK) is a family of self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missile systems developed by the former Soviet Union and Russian Federation and designed to engage cruise missiles, smart bombs, fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft, and unmanned aerial vehicles.
I am not stating Ukraine did this. I am merely asking a question, while pointing out the possibility, and noting they did it once before.
As of this moment, the rebels deny responsibility and never claimed ownership of medium range weapons capable of reaching that altitude.
Clarification From Jacob
The Ukrainians have previously claimed that one or perhaps two of their planes were shot down by the rebels at 6000 meters. To my knowledge, based on their various statements, the rebels have never admitted to shooting down anything over 2500 to 4000 meters (depending on who you listen to), nor have they boasted of that kind of capability.
Mish Comment: 4,000 meters is 13123.4 feet, a far cry from 33,000 feet altitude of passenger jets.
Update From Jacob
Another wrinkle: The Ukrainians had officially closed the airspace over Donetsk and Lugansk on July 8th. The airplane went down over this area.
Mish Comment: This is looking more and more like an "inside job" not the work of rebels or Russia as widely presumed. By "inside job" I mean either Ukraine or Malaysian pilot.
Read more at http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...LGFFeqtY3Xj.99Comment
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
How is this for the tin foil crowd. They were trying to shoot down Putin's Plane?
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/Comment
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
I'm surprised we haven't already heard some crackpot claim that today's Malaysian 777 aircraft is really the one that disappeared last March, snatched for a false flag op.
I guess Alex Jones and InfoWars are slipping these days...Comment
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
well it IS the 2nd one of theirs they've lost - in what - 4mos?
U.S. Says Missile Hit Malaysian Jet
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
There's been a good few commercial aircraft, both large and small, shot down by Anti-Aircraft cannons, Surface to Air missiles(both shoulder launched man portable systems and larger more complex high performance SAM batteries), as well as by fighter/interceptors….and just since the 1970's
One incident of note would include Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, shot down by a Ukrainian SAM missile battery as recently as 2001.
Some are arguing that Malaysian Airlines was irresponsible flying over a conflict zone……but to be honest…it happens quite often.
I've flown a bunch of times over Iraq and Syria while in active internal conflict with all kinds of non-permissive space nooks and crannies.
I suspect that while airlines security departments will be making suggestions to airline operations on things like specific route plans based on intelligence reports, the risks have typically been pretty low for commercial aircraft flying at 11,000M and a high rate of knots, because they are NOT at risk of being hit by shoulder launched MANPADS(Man portable air defines systems like the US Stinger) which lack the range and speed to intercept high altitude commercial traffic.
Running an SA-11 Missile battery or independent sub-unit would consist of at least one missile launch vehicle, search radar vehicle, tracking radar vehicle(I believe they are separate systems on separate chassis on the SA-11 system), at least 1 command and control/launch vehicle, and other logistical support vehicles.
There'd likely be a minimum of several dozen people both directly and indirectly involved in this incident. And probably a good half dozen or so with direct complicity due to their direct involvement and culpability in the decision process tree for launch as well as those interpreting the active/passive sensor data of a commercial airliner.
I'm sure there will be quite a few folks very interested in talking to who authorised the launch, who ordered the launch, radar/sensor operators who interpreted the data, and what their rules of engagement were.
Isn't there enough noise out there without automatically assuming conspiracy?Comment
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
thx for brining zerocred/maxkeiser cred destruction to itulip daily.Originally posted by Mega View Post
like to discuss topic but not under nutjob 'falseflag' thread title.Comment
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Re: Bloody False flag op............?
There were 27 Australians on board the plane, along with 173 Dutch nationals, 44 Malaysians, 12 Indonesians, nine passengers believed to be from the UK, four each from Germany and Belgium, three from the Philippines, one Canadian and one from New Zealand. The nationalities of 39 passengers had not yet been verified. A group of international HIV/Aids experts flying to Melbourne were among those killed.Comment
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The Who and the What Next?
US intelligence tracked the missile launch and hit. Now comes the aftermath, both the micro, the Ukrainian Question, and the macro, BRIC's challenge to the dollar.Comment
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