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  • Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

    grab a scorecard, boyz . . . .

    Are the neocons going home? By “neocons,” I refer to followers of the hawkish foreign policy school that began to coalesce in the 1970s around New York writers and academics who had rejected their Communist or Socialist lodestar to become vocal anti-Communists. A generation or so later, from Kosovo to Georgia, from Afghanistan to Iraq, from Libya to Syria, from Ukraine and now back to Iraq, they consistently advocate the use of American power, often American troops, to establish and enforce a “liberal world order.”

    By “going home,” I mean returning to the Democratic Party.

    The question took shape while I was reading a profile in The New York Times about neocon light Robert Kagan — brother of Iraq “surge” architect Frederick Kagan, son of Yale professor Donald Kagan, and husband of State Department diplomat Victoria Nuland. The Times describes Robert Kagan as “the congenial and well-respected scion of one of America’s first families of interventionism.”

    If there is something jarring about the “first families of interventionism” moniker — just think for a moment about the families of the soldiers who actually do the “intervening” — it doesn’t seem to be meant ironically. Kagan, in fact, says he prefers to call himself a “liberal interventionist,” not a neocon. This may indeed be more appropriate for the Brookings Institution fellow and New Republic contributing editor that he is, but there’s nothing “conservative,” or even “neo,” about it.

    So is this Times profile a “coming out” party? Maybe that accounts for the Times’ distinctly warm and fuzzy coverage. Kagan “exudes a Cocoa Puffs-pouring, stay-at-home-dad charm,” the newspaper reported — not exactly standard Times treatment for a foreign policy hawk ever-ready, it seems, to give war a chance. Or is it?

    I will pause here for a flash or two of full disclosure. Irving Kristol, was not only the “godfather of neoconservatism,” he was my first boss at The Public Interest, where I was an assistant editor. That spot came my way on the strength of a year at the Yale Political Monthly, a student publication I edited after being vetted by the college publication’s co-founder — Robert Kagan. There are other connections, albeit all of them nearly as historical as the ancient Greek specialty of Bob’s professor-father, who was, incidentally, Yale Political Monthly’s faculty adviser.

    All of which is to say that long ago I started out in what were only then becoming known as “neoconservative” circles. But I didn’t stay there.

    After 9/11, the more I learned about Islam, the less I supported the Bush-Obama nation-building counterinsurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan. At its root, the strategy behind these wars was driven by the universalist and globalist impulse that denies differences among peoples, religions, tribes, nations, societies of all kinds, as an ideological fundamental to justify the measures required to impose order — the “new world order” President George H.W. Bush talked about, and the “liberal world order” Kagan now discusses. It helps explain why President George W. Bush could plant empty ballot boxes in Islamic Iraq and expect the Bill of Rights and other fruits of Graeco-Roman-Judeo-Christian millennia to grow. I refer, of course, to the calamitous “democracy project” neoconservatives became particularly infamous for driving, which, since 9/11, has only made the world safe for sharia.

    The Times continues: “But Exhibit A for what Robert Kagan describes as his ‘mainstream’ view of American force is his relationship with former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who remains the vessel into which many interventionists are pouring their hopes.”

    Do I hear an SOS? “Shipwrecked neocons seeking vessel to pour interventionist hopes into. Will deploy troops anywhere.”

    The Times: “Mr. Kagan pointed out that he had recently attended a dinner of foreign-policy experts at which Mrs. Clinton was the guest of honor, and that he had served on her bipartisan group of foreign-policy heavy hitters at the State Department, where his wife worked as her spokeswoman. ‘I feel comfortable with her on foreign policy,’ Mr. Kagan said, adding that the next step after Mr. Obama’s more realist approach ‘could theoretically be whatever Hillary brings to the table’ if elected president.”

    Lost Whitewater files maybe? A Muslim Brotherhood Rolodex? The truth about Benghazi? Nah.

    “‘If she pursues a policy which we think she will pursue,’ he added, ‘it’s something that might have been called neocon, but clearly her supporters are not going to call it that; they are going to call it something else.”

    How about calling it “liberal interventionism”? I can see it now: A new ship of state under Hillary Clinton sailing home, carrying a crew of neocons-turned-liberal-interventionists. And The New York Times will find it all Cocoa Puffs charming.

    Diana West

  • #2
    Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

    foreign policy as well, eh . . . .
    Fear and loathing at Hotel Babylon

    So now a huge Hardcore Sunnistan stretches all the way from the suburbs of Aleppo to Tikrit and from Mosul to the Jordanian/Iraqi border - the same one that dissolved in 2003 when Shock and Awe turned into Mission (Un)Accomplished.

    In an eerie echo of Dick Cheney's army's footprints reverberating in the sands of Anbar province, the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) and their coalition of the willing (jihadis, Islamists,


    Ba'athists and tribal sheikhs) now pose as the "liberators" of Iraqi Sunnis from the clutches of an "evil" Shi'ite majority government in Baghdad.

    In addition, ISIS also controls the PR wars. Here, a jihadi details how any sort of possible Washington "kinetic" involvement will be interpreted as an unholy alliance between the Empire and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki against the underdogs.

    From a Sunni perspective, it's down with Iraq's Counter-terrorism law; down with de-Ba'athification (with the ascent of neo-Ba'athist Jaysh Rijal al-Tariqa al-Naqshbandia - JRTN, led by former Saddam honcho Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri); down with the Interior Ministry in Baghdad going after Sunni politicians; down with protests being crushed.

    At the same time, it's the return of the US-sponsored Sahwa (Sons of Iraq) - who fiercely fought al-Qaeda in Iraq in 2007, the mother of ISIS - and the return of assorted Shi'ite militias (Muqtada al-Sadr not only repelled the new wave of US "military advisers" - that's how it started in Vietnam - but also warned that his own badass Men in Black will "shake the ground" fighting ISIS.) The mid-2000s are the new normal; it's gonna be militia hell all over again.

    Mesopotamia, we got a problem. Neo-Ba'athists want nothing but a secular Iraq run by Sunnis, Saddam-style (rather former neocon darling Ahmad Chalabi.) ISIS wants a Caliphate extending all across the Levant under Sharia law. Something's got to give.

    What will give will be the Iraqi nation itself - the balkanized, protracted (intended) consequence of the 2003 invasion and occupation, finally transmogrified into Jihad Central.

    It's payback time

    The Obama administration's "strategy" (remember "Don't Do Stupid Shit", the Ukraine strategy?) is to impose regime change on al-Maliki; after all, he had the bad taste of refusing to let US troops keep occupying Iraq past the 2012 deadline, and on top of it his government is close to Tehran.

    Thus the answer to the now legendary question of how the US intel satellite maze failed to capture that long column of ISIS Men in Black in their gleaming white Toyota Land Cruisers crossing the Syrian-Iraq desert wasteland. Call it the Mother of All Intel Failures (remember Saddam's talk of Mother of All Battles?)

    Here we have trademark Empire of Chaos "revenge" against Baghdad, Tehran and - why not - Moscow (after all Russian president Vladimir Putin offered full support to al-Maliki to fight the jihadis.) Iraq duly merges with Ukraine. And as for payback redux, it's - almost - all spelled out here.

    As for the Beltway-peddled myth - once again - of "good terrorists" and "bad terrorists", this week Jabhat al-Nusra in Syria pledged its allegiance to ISIS. This means that ISIS now virtually controls both sides of the border, at Albu Kamal in Syria and Al-Qaim in Iraq. As a bonus, ISIS and allied Sunni tribal sheikhs also surrounded the US-controlled Camp Anaconda in Iraq and are ready for a long-term mortar game. Will Beltway "analysts" ever learn?

    That little fiction known as Jordan - run by King Playstation, aka Abdullah - will be ripe for the taking as soon as hardcore Salafis from Zarqa (Zarqawi's hometown) totally align with ISIS. Add that piece of real estate to the embryo Levantine Caliphate and we'll be talking major business - oil refineries possibly included.

    "Don't Do Stupid Shit", applied to Syria and Iraq, means that the Obama administration has gone (almost) no holds barred in its "Assad must go" policy, by the way a Ba'ath government; what's implied is that Washington is an ally of ISIS in Syria, while a (determined?) foe of ISIS in Iraq. Assad's "sin" is that he's an ally of both Tehran (like al-Maliki) and, most of all (from an American perspective), Hezbollah. And now comes the Obama administration's latest "Stupid Shit" - in the form of weaponizing "appropriately vetted" rebels in Syria.

    Lording over this suspension of disbelief scenario, the whole Beltway, White House included, sells the illusion it is thoughtfully deliberating whether the real dangerous Men in Black here are in fact from ISIS - and what to do about them.

    As some sort of Washington-Tehran cooperation against ISIS becomes self-evident, that poses a major problem for the perennial Bomb Iran crowd in the Beltway, as well as for hardliners in Tehran; after all ISIS has erected a massive geostrategic barrier between Iran and Syria, threatening Tehran's connection with Hezbollah.

    Likudniks will go no holds barred to prevent any cooperation. But that will be a detail anyway. Baghdad may get all the help it needs from Iranian special forces and militias such as Muqtada's. ISIS does not have the manpower or the expertise to lay siege to Baghdad; people in Sadr City alone would rip them to shreds. Not to mention attack Najaf and Karbala, the Shi'ite holy cities, which are already protected by heavily armed popular brigades.

    Will NATO meet Jihadistan?

    Kirkuk is now under virtual Kurd control. Its "devolution" to Baghdad will be immensely problematic - and that's a major euphemism. Kirkuk produces around 670,000 barrels of oil a day. Up to 300,000 are exported via the pipeline to Ceyhan, in Turkey. Yet only 120,000 barrels a day have been online these past few weeks.

    Iraq's total production is 3.3 million barrels a day - the bulk concentrated in the south, around Basra. There's no realistic evidence ISIS would ever be able to capture Basra.

    So the problem remains some refineries in the north such as Baiji. Elite Iraqi counter-terrorism forces can deal with it. If ISIS by any chance would be able to hang on to some oil and gas - a major if - that's certified joy for, most of all, market speculators. And soon there might be thousands of US special forces "securing" Iraqi oil fields and the Green Zone in Baghdad.

    Assad's Syrian Army can - and it's already - contributing to fight ISIS. In the end, ISIS can realistically be repelled by the Syrian Army, elite Iranian special forces, Shi'ite brigades and yes - animminent cameo by those second-hand fighter jets from Russia and Belarus.

    ISIS won't take over Baghdad. But like a freak mutant, in a Hardcore Sunnistan goes Hollywood fashion, it might go even more bonkers and try to take over Amman, Doha and even Riyadh.

    The Empire of Chaos will keep betting on - what else - chaos. And it's going swimmingly its way - from the real possibility of a final push towards a Great Kurdistan (in Syria, Iraq, Turkey and even Iran) to sectarian militia hell all across Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey and Yemen. Not to mention all possible ramifications in Northern Africa, Central Asia and the North Caucasus.

    What will Hillary Clinton, the Hillarator, do? In this case, one's gotta wait for early 2017. She could always pull another "We came, we saw, he died" and triumphantly stage a second coming in the Levant as a droned Athena singing Light My Fire.

    In the end, NATO won't meet Jihadistan. No "responsibility to protect" (R2P) Arabs from killing Arabs. NATO will be - gleefully - "watching" in the sidelines. Because from Northern Africa and across the Middle East to the Caucasus and all the way to Western China, the name of the (burning) game is to keep Dr Zbig Brzezinski's "Eurasian Balkans" ever simmering in a funeral pyre.

    Pepe Escobar

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

      Originally posted by don View Post
      grab a scorecard, boyz . . . .
      dont fergit the daily double....

      ahhhh...
      there's nothing quite so entertaining as a double-shot of sarcasm to get one fired up on the day
      ,
      eh mr don?
      Originally posted by d west
      Are the neocons going home? ....
      .......

      By “going home,” I mean returning to the Democratic Party.
      ..........
      The question took shape while I was reading a profile in The New York Times about neocon light Robert Kagan — brother of Iraq “surge” architect Frederick Kagan, son of Yale professor Donald Kagan, and husband of State Department diplomat Victoria Nuland. The Times describes Robert Kagan as “the congenial and well-respected scion of one of America’s first families of interventionism.”....
      ....

      The Times continues: “But Exhibit A for what Robert Kagan describes as his ‘mainstream’ view of American force is his relationship with former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who remains the vessel into which many interventionists are pouring their hopes.”

      Do I hear an SOS? Shipwrecked neocons seeking vessel to pour interventionist hopes into. Will deploy troops anywhere.”
      The Times: “Mr. Kagan pointed out that he had recently attended a dinner of foreign-policy experts at which Mrs. Clinton was the guest of honor, and that he had served on her bipartisan group of foreign-policy heavy hitters at the State Department, where his wife worked as her spokeswoman. ‘I feel comfortable with her on foreign policy,’ Mr. Kagan said, adding that the next step after Mr. Obama’s more realist approachcould theoretically be whatever Hillary brings to the table’ if elected president.”
      Lost Whitewater files maybe? A Muslim Brotherhood Rolodex? The truth about Benghazi? Nah.

      “‘If she pursues a policy which we think she will pursue,’ he added, ‘it’s something that might have been called neocon, but clearly her supporters are not going to call it that; they are going to call it something else.”

      How about calling it “liberal interventionism”? I can see it now: A new ship of state under Hillary Clinton sailing home, carrying a crew of neocons-turned-liberal-interventionists. And The New York Times will find it all Cocoa Puffs charming.

      Diana West
      heheheheheheh.... eye love it!!

      Originally posted by don View Post
      foreign policy as well, eh . . . .
      hey, when they're rollin, mights well pour it on.... maybe go fer the trifecta?

      ms west's was good, but pepe here is a thoroughbred in the art/science of sarcastic commentary...
      Originally posted by escobar
      Fear and loathing at Hotel Babylon

      So now a huge Hardcore Sunnistan stretches all the way from the suburbs of Aleppo to Tikrit and from Mosul to the Jordanian/Iraqi border - the same one that dissolved in 2003 when Shock and Awe turned into Mission (Un)Accomplished.

      In an eerie echo of Dick Cheney's army's footprints reverberating in the sands of Anbar province, the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) and their coalition of the willing (jihadis, Islamists,


      Ba'athists and tribal sheikhs) now pose as the "liberators" of Iraqi Sunnis from the clutches of an "evil" Shi'ite majority government in Baghdad.

      In addition, ISIS also controls the PR wars. Here, a jihadi details how any sort of possible Washington "kinetic" involvement will be interpreted as an unholy alliance between the Empire and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki against the underdogs.

      From a Sunni perspective, it's down with Iraq's Counter-terrorism law; down with de-Ba'athification (with the ascent of neo-Ba'athist Jaysh Rijal al-Tariqa al-Naqshbandia - JRTN, led by former Saddam honcho Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri); down with the Interior Ministry in Baghdad going after Sunni politicians; down with protests being crushed.

      At the same time, it's the return of the US-sponsored Sahwa (Sons of Iraq) - who fiercely fought al-Qaeda in Iraq in 2007, the mother of ISIS - and the return of assorted Shi'ite militias (Muqtada al-Sadr not only repelled the new wave of US "military advisers" - that's how it started in Vietnam - but also warned that his own badass Men in Black will "shake the ground" fighting ISIS.) The mid-2000s are the new normal; it's gonna be militia hell all over again.

      Mesopotamia, we got a problem. Neo-Ba'athists want nothing but a secular Iraq run by Sunnis, Saddam-style (rather former neocon darling Ahmad Chalabi.) ISIS wants a Caliphate extending all across the Levant under Sharia law. Something's got to give.

      What will give will be the Iraqi nation itself - the balkanized, protracted (intended) consequence of the 2003 invasion and occupation, finally transmogrified into Jihad Central.

      It's payback time

      The Obama administration's "strategy" (remember "Don't Do Stupid Shit", the Ukraine strategy?) is to impose regime change on al-Maliki; after all, he had the bad taste of refusing to let US troops keep occupying Iraq past the 2012 deadline, and on top of it his government is close to Tehran.

      Thus the answer to the now legendary question of how the US intel satellite maze failed to capture that long column of ISIS Men in Black in their gleaming white Toyota Land Cruisers crossing the Syrian-Iraq desert wasteland. Call it the Mother of All Intel Failures (remember Saddam's talk of Mother of All Battles?)

      Here we have trademark Empire of Chaos "revenge" against Baghdad, Tehran and - why not - Moscow (after all Russian president Vladimir Putin offered full support to al-Maliki to fight the jihadis.) Iraq duly merges with Ukraine. And as for payback redux, it's - almost - all spelled out here.

      As for the Beltway-peddled myth - once again - of "good terrorists" and "bad terrorists", this week Jabhat al-Nusra in Syria pledged its allegiance to ISIS. This means that ISIS now virtually controls both sides of the border, at Albu Kamal in Syria and Al-Qaim in Iraq. As a bonus, ISIS and allied Sunni tribal sheikhs also surrounded the US-controlled Camp Anaconda in Iraq and are ready for a long-term mortar game. Will Beltway "analysts" ever learn?

      That little fiction known as Jordan - run by King Playstation, aka Abdullah - will be ripe for the taking as soon as hardcore Salafis from Zarqa (Zarqawi's hometown) totally align with ISIS. Add that piece of real estate to the embryo Levantine Caliphate and we'll be talking major business - oil refineries possibly included.

      "Don't Do Stupid Shit", applied to Syria and Iraq, means that the Obama administration has gone (almost) no holds barred in its "Assad must go" policy, by the way a Ba'ath government; what's implied is that Washington is an ally of ISIS in Syria, while a (determined?) foe of ISIS in Iraq. Assad's "sin" is that he's an ally of both Tehran (like al-Maliki) and, most of all (from an American perspective), Hezbollah. And now comes the Obama administration's latest "Stupid Shit" - in the form of weaponizing "appropriately vetted" rebels in Syria.

      Lording over this suspension of disbelief scenario, the whole Beltway, White House included, sells the illusion it is thoughtfully deliberating whether the real dangerous Men in Black here are in fact from ISIS - and what to do about them.

      As some sort of Washington-Tehran cooperation against ISIS becomes self-evident, that poses a major problem for the perennial Bomb Iran crowd in the Beltway, as well as for hardliners in Tehran; after all ISIS has erected a massive geostrategic barrier between Iran and Syria, threatening Tehran's connection with Hezbollah.

      Likudniks will go no holds barred to prevent any cooperation. But that will be a detail anyway. Baghdad may get all the help it needs from Iranian special forces and militias such as Muqtada's. ISIS does not have the manpower or the expertise to lay siege to Baghdad; people in Sadr City alone would rip them to shreds. Not to mention attack Najaf and Karbala, the Shi'ite holy cities, which are already protected by heavily armed popular brigades.

      Will NATO meet Jihadistan?

      Kirkuk is now under virtual Kurd control. Its "devolution" to Baghdad will be immensely problematic - and that's a major euphemism. Kirkuk produces around 670,000 barrels of oil a day. Up to 300,000 are exported via the pipeline to Ceyhan, in Turkey. Yet only 120,000 barrels a day have been online these past few weeks.

      Iraq's total production is 3.3 million barrels a day - the bulk concentrated in the south, around Basra. There's no realistic evidence ISIS would ever be able to capture Basra.

      So the problem remains some refineries in the north such as Baiji. Elite Iraqi counter-terrorism forces can deal with it. If ISIS by any chance would be able to hang on to some oil and gas - a major if - that's certified joy for, most of all, market speculators. And soon there might be thousands of US special forces "securing" Iraqi oil fields and the Green Zone in Baghdad.

      Assad's Syrian Army can - and it's already - contributing to fight ISIS. In the end, ISIS can realistically be repelled by the Syrian Army, elite Iranian special forces, Shi'ite brigades and yes - animminent cameo by those second-hand fighter jets from Russia and Belarus.

      ISIS won't take over Baghdad. But like a freak mutant, in a Hardcore Sunnistan goes Hollywood fashion, it might go even more bonkers and try to take over Amman, Doha and even Riyadh.

      The Empire of Chaos will keep betting on - what else - chaos. And it's going swimmingly its way - from the real possibility of a final push towards a Great Kurdistan (in Syria, Iraq, Turkey and even Iran) to sectarian militia hell all across Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey and Yemen. Not to mention all possible ramifications in Northern Africa, Central Asia and the North Caucasus.

      What will Hillary Clinton, the Hillarator, do? In this case, one's gotta wait for early 2017. She could always pull another "We came, we saw, he died" and triumphantly stage a second coming in the Levant as a droned Athena singing Light My Fire.

      In the end, NATO won't meet Jihadistan. No "responsibility to protect" (R2P) Arabs from killing Arabs. NATO will be - gleefully - "watching" in the sidelines. Because from Northern Africa and across the Middle East to the Caucasus and all the way to Western China, the name of the (burning) game is to keep Dr Zbig Brzezinski's "Eurasian Balkans" ever simmering in a funeral pyre.

      Pepe Escobar
      of course if john F(raud)& co dont screw things up more than they have already, they (in the lamestream media) WILL make sure The Hillarator Saves The Day

      all in all tho, methinks we're seeing a pepe pulitzer prize (in sarc journo circles anyway) taking shape - as the trumpet sounds the call to post for the running of the 2016 beltway derby...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

        Que the violin section as Washington burns . . . .

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

          is she a socialist, a neocon, or just more of the same . . . .

          "Clinton Inc. is going to be the most formidable fundraising operation for the Democrats in the history of the country. Period. Exclamation point," is how on Republican lobbyist describes the Bill-and-Hillary show and as WSJ reports, in total, the Clintons raised between $2 billion and $3 billion from all sources, including individual donors, corporate contributors and foreign governments. They have raised more than $1 billion from U.S. companies and industry donors during two decades on the national stage through campaigns, paid speeches and a network of organizations advancing their political and policy goals. Financial Services firms have been one of the single largest sources of money for the Clintons since the 1992 presidential campaign; and the couple's No. 1 Wall Street contributor, giving nearly $5 million -Goldman Sachs.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

            Originally posted by don View Post
            is she a socialist, a neocon, or just more of the same . . . .

            "Clinton Inc. is going to be the most formidable fundraising operation for the Democrats in the history of the country. Period. Exclamation point," is how on Republican lobbyist describes the Bill-and-Hillary show and as WSJ reports, in total, the Clintons raised between $2 billion and $3 billion from all sources, including individual donors, corporate contributors and foreign governments. They have raised more than $1 billion from U.S. companies and industry donors during two decades on the national stage through campaigns, paid speeches and a network of organizations advancing their political and policy goals. Financial Services firms have been one of the single largest sources of money for the Clintons since the 1992 presidential campaign; and the couple's No. 1 Wall Street contributor, giving nearly $5 million -Goldman Sachs.

            A few billion here, a few billion there... Society would benefit more if donors said NO to the politicians and donated directly to charities and people in need.

            Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

              Originally posted by don View Post
              is she a socialist, a neocon, or just more of the same . . . .
              not-quite-more-of-same, but certainly not less...

              .....Financial Services firms have been one of the single largest sources of money for the Clintons since the 1992 presidential campaign; and the couple's No. 1 Wall Street contributor, giving nearly $5 million -Goldman Sachs.
              hmmmm.... surprise ?

              or merely a(nother) coincidence....

              whats IS most interesting tho, is after their round1 (or2) was done, was it back to the ranch like the next occupant?
              kinda funny where they ended up, dont ya think?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

                We had - still have, there's Jeb - the Bushes and now the Clintons. Are the elites suffering from candidate fatigue, or are they simply letting us know it's not worth the effort?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

                  Originally posted by shiny! View Post
                  A few billion here, a few billion there... Society would benefit more if donors said NO to the politicians and donated directly to charities and people in need.
                  and pretty soon we're talkin REAL.... ummm... corruption?

                  and who (lately, anyway) - in the political class - ever said anything, or actually DID anything for those 'in need'
                  (before lining their OWN pockets/campaigns while they pander, or rather prostitute themselves to the big donors)

                  altho i can think of at least one who does donate - and in size - altho some in the chattering class seems to think its somehow a bad thing anyway?
                  at least when its not their fave candidate - or charity.

                  as i've mentioned prev a few times - the hypocrisy in the 'media elite' is breathtaking (when its not HILARIOUS)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

                    may be, mr don - methinks its got down to 'may the best mudslingin BS artist win'

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

                      Originally posted by don View Post
                      We had - still have, there's Jeb - the Bushes and now the Clintons. Are the elites suffering from candidate fatigue, or are they simply letting us know it's not worth the effort?
                      No, it just looks that way. Read this. Mrs. Greenspan explains it all for us in simple words.

                      >>> the bond her family feels with their political rivals but personal friends the clintons. here's nbc's andrea mitchell .>> former first lady barbara bush in an interview on c-span on monday says her husband and bill clinton have become great friends.>> bill visits us every summer. we don't agree politically, but we don't talk politics.>> i william jefferson clinton .>> reporter: they're an unlikely pair. once political adversaries, the relationship was icy after the bitter 1992 campaign. but in 2004 , president george w. bush asked his father and clinton to join forces to help victims of the tsunami and later katrina.>> well, we took seven trips together. and this man whom i'd always liked and respected, i literally came to love.>> reporter: in the years since, the two have visited, shared lunches and often talked on the phone, a relationship that has now blossomed into even more.>> i think that he thinks of george a little bit like the father he didn't have.>> people joke i was getting so close to the bush family i had become the black sheep son.>> i love bill clinton , maybe not his politics, but i love bill clinton .

                      http://www.today.com/video/today/54132712#54132712
                      See, it only looks like a banana republic. No wonder i wuz confuzed...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

                        Originally posted by Woodsman View Post
                        No, it just looks that way. Read this. Mrs. Greenspan explains it all for us in simple words.

                        See, it only looks like a banana republic. No wonder i wuz confuzed...
                        see?
                        it really is one big/friendly club, they run there, in the political class - spit fire at each other when in front of the cams/mikes - and shoot shots/rub elbows with each other back at the clubhouse...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

                          Politics is just like watching Saturday morning wrestling when I was a kid. I would be a lot more fun to watch if they would dress like Chief J Strongbow or Andre the Giant.

                          Sadly, the politicians are in rolls that allow them to do a lot of damage to other folks lives.


                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgg5zJRq6O0

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

                            Originally posted by BK View Post
                            Politics is just like watching Saturday morning wrestling when I was a kid. I would be a lot more fun to watch if they would dress like Chief J Strongbow or Andre the Giant.

                            Sadly, the politicians are in rolls that allow them to do a lot of damage to other folks lives.


                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgg5zJRq6O0
                            For some reason the match between Mil Máscaras and Superstar Billy Graham seems like a particularly good metaphor.



                            And damn if the Grand Wizard Abdullah Farouk isn't there to round things out perfectly.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Presidential Politics: Oh, so confusing

                              I believe I said in another post recently that American politics is like All Star Wrestling, but not as classy.

                              Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                              Comment

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