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  • Hedges on Cecily McMillan

    They Can’t Outlaw the Revolution

    If you have followed the case, you know it's absurd and definitely scary.

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...tion_20140518/
    By Chris Hedges

    RIKERS ISLAND, N.Y.—Cecily McMillan, the Occupy activist who on Monday morning will appear before a criminal court in New York City to be sentenced to up to seven years on a charge of assaulting a police officer, sat in a plastic chair wearing a baggy, oversized gray jumpsuit, cheap brown plastic sandals and horn-rim glasses. Other women, also dressed in prison-issued gray jumpsuits, sat nearby in the narrow, concrete-walled visitation room clutching their children, tears streaming down their faces. The children, bewildered, had their arms wrapped tightly around their mothers’ necks. It looked like the disaster scene it was.

    “It’s all out in the open here,” said the 25-year-old student, who was to have graduated May 22 with a master’s degree from The New School of Social Research in New York City. “The cruelty of power can’t hide like it does on the outside. You get America, everything America has become, especially for poor people of color in prison. My lawyers think I will get two years. But two years is nothing compared to what these women, who never went to trial, never had the possibility of a trial with adequate legal representation, face. There are women in my dorm who, because they have such a poor command of English, do not even understand their charges. I spent a lot of time trying to explain the charges to them.”

    McMillan says Grantley Bovell, who was in plainclothes and did not identify himself as a police officer, grabbed her from behind during a March 17, 2012, gathering of several hundred Occupy activists in Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park. In a video of the incident she appears to have instinctively elbowed him in the face, but she says she has no memory of what happened. Video and photographs—mostly not permitted by the trial judge to be shown in the courtroom—buttressed her version of events. There is no dispute that she was severely beaten by police and taken from the park to a hospital where she was handcuffed to a bed. On May 5 she was found guilty after a three-week trial of a felony assault in the second degree. She can receive anything from probation to seven years in prison.

    “I am prepared mentally for a long sentence,” she told me this past weekend when I interviewed her at the Rikers Island prison in the Bronx. “I watched the trial. I watched the judge. This was never about justice. Just as it is not about justice for these other women. One mother was put in here for shoplifting after she lost her job and her house and needed to feed her children. There is another prisoner, a preschool teacher with a 1-year-old son she was breastfeeding, who let her cousin stay with her after her cousin was evicted. It turns out the cousin sold drugs. The cops found money, not drugs, that the cousin kept in the house and took the mother. They told her to leave her child with the neighbors. There is story after story in here like this. It wakes you up.”

    McMillan’s case is emblematic of the nationwide judicial persecution of activists, a persecution familiar to poor people of color. Her case stands in contrast with the blanket impunity given to the criminals of Wall Street. Some 8,000 nonviolent Occupy protesters have been arrested. Not one banker or investor has gone to jail for causing the 2008 financial meltdown. The disparity of justice mirrors the disparity in incomes and the disparity in power.

    Occupy activists across the country have been pressured to “plea out” on felony charges in exchange for sentences of years of probation, which not only carry numerous restrictions, including being unable to attend law school or serve on a jury, but make it difficult for them to engage in further activism for fear of arrest and violating their probation. McMillan was offered the same plea deal but refused it. She was one of the few who went to trial.

    “I am deeply committed to nonviolence, especially in the face of all the violence around me inside and outside this prison,” she said in the interview. “I could not accept this deal. I had to fight back. That is why I am an activist. Being branded as someone who was violent was intolerable.”

    McMillan’s case is as much about our right to nonviolent protest as it is about McMillan. It is about our right to carry out such protest without being subjected to police violence intended to crush peaceful and lawful dissent. It is about our right to engage in political organization without our groups being monitored and infiltrated by the security and surveillance state. It is about our right of free speech and free assembly, guaranteed under the Constitution but effectively stripped from us in a series of judicial rulings and through municipal ordinances that make it impossible to protest in many U.S. cities.

    Judge Ronald A. Zweibel was caustic and hostile to McMillan and her defense team during the trial. He barred video evidence that would have helped her case. He issued a gag order that forbade the defense lawyers, Martin Stolar and Rebecca Heinegg, to communicate with the press. And, astonishingly, he denied McMillan bail.

    The judge also assiduously protected Bovell against challenges to his credibility. He refused to allow the jurors to hear about or see the excessive police violence that was used to clear the park the night McMillan was arrested—violence many activists say was the most indiscriminate and abusive ever inflicted during the Occupy movement. He hid Bovell’s history of misconduct as a police officer from the jury. Bovell has been investigated at least twice by the internal affairs section of the New York City Police Department, the Guardian newspaper reported. Bovell and his police partner, in one of the cases, were sued for allegedly using an unmarked police car to strike a 17-year-old fleeing on a dirt bike. The teenager said his nose was broken, two teeth were knocked out and his forehead was lacerated. The case was settled out of court for a significant amount of money. There is also a video that appears to show Bovell relentlessly kicking a suspect on the floor of a Bronx grocery. In addition, Bovell was involved in a ticket-fixing scandal in his Bronx precinct. And Austin Guest, 33, a Harvard University graduate who was arrested at Zuccotti Park on the night McMillan was assaulted, is suing Bovell and the NYPD because the officer allegedly intentionally banged his head on the internal stairs and seats of a bus that took him and other activists in for processing. The judge barred the running down of the teenager on the dirt bike and Bovell’s alleged abuse of Guest from being discussed in front of the jury.

    The case has galvanized many activists, who see in McMillan’s persecution the persecution of movements across the globe struggling for nonviolent democratic change. McMillan was visited in Rikers by Russia human rights campaigners of the group Pussy Riot. Hundreds of people, including nine of the 12 jurors and some New York City Council members, have urged Judge Zweibel to be lenient. Some 160,000 people have signed an online petition calling on Mayor Bill de Blasio and Gov. Andrew Cuomo to intervene on her behalf. But so far pleas like these have failed to mollify the corporate state’s determination to use the McMillan case as a tool to prevent any new mass movements.

    “I am very conscious of how privileged I am, especially in here,” McMillan said. “When you are in prison white privilege works against you. You tend to react when you come out of white privilege by saying ‘you can’t do that’ when prison authorities force you to do something arbitrary and meaningless. But the poor understand the system. They know it is absurd, capricious and senseless, that it is all about being forced to pay deference to power. If you react out of white privilege it sets you apart. I have learned to respond as a collective, to speak to authority in a unified voice. And this has been good for me. I needed this.”

    “We can talk about movement theory all we want,” she went on. “We can read Michel Foucault or Pierre Bourdieu, but at a certain point it becomes a game. You have to get out and live it. You have to actually build a movement. And if we don’t get to work to build a movement now there will be no one studying movement theory in a decade because there will be no movements. I can do this in prison. I can do this out of prison. It is all one struggle.”

    McMillan has been held in Rikers’ Rose M. Singer Center, Dorm 2 East B, with about 40 other women. They sleep in rows of cots. Nearly all the women are poor mothers of color, most of them black, Hispanic or Chinese. McMillan is giving lessons in English in exchange for lessons in Spanish.

    McMillan has bonded with an African-American woman known as “Fat Baby” who ogled her and told her she had nice legs. Fat Baby threw out a couple of lame pickup lines that, McMillan said, “sounded as if she was a construction worker. I told her I would teach her some pickup lines that were a little more subtle.”

    McMillan, who is required to have a prison activity, participates in the drug rehabilitation program although she did not use drugs. She is critical of the instructor’s feeding of “positive” and Christian thinking to the inmates, some of whom are Muslims. “It is all about the power of positive thinking, about how they made mistakes and bad choices in life and now they can correct those mistakes by taking another road, a Christian road, to a new life,” she said. “This focus on happy thoughts pervades the prison. There is little analysis of the structural causes for poverty and oppression. It is as if it was all about decisions we made, not that were made for us. And this is how those in power want it. This kind of thinking induces passivity.”

    McMillan was receiving 30 to 40 letters daily at Rikers but during the week before the interview was told every day that she had none. She suspects the prison has cut off the flow of mail to her.

    Because my pens and paper were confiscated during the two-hour process it took to enter the prison, after the visit I had to reconstruct the notes from our conversation, which lasted an hour and a half. The entry process is normal for visitors, who on weekends stand in long lines in metal chutes outside the prison. My body was searched and my clothing was minutely inspected for contraband, and I had to go through two metal detectors.

    During the interview a guard asked McMillan to roll down her sleeves and admonished her once for crossing her legs. “You scratch a hole in the crotch,” McMillan said, running a fingernail up and down the crotch seam of her jumpsuit. “You make a small hole. And when the visitor slips you a cigarette you push up your vagina. I am learning a lot in prison. I have gotten very good at hiding books on my way to medical and stealing food to bring back to the dorm.”

    “It is hard to read, it is hard to write,” she went on. “There is constant movement and constant noise.”

    She was working Sunday on the statement she would read in court Monday. She said it draws heavily from Leo Tolstoy’s “The Kingdom of God Is Within You.”

    McMillan had just finished writing a message to supporters who planned to rally in her support Sunday afternoon in New York City. She told them:

    I came to New York the summer of 2011 to go to school—Rikers Island was definitely not on my list of intended experiences. Though I did call myself “a radical” that title stretched only as far to include plans to start a socialist student chapter and study welfare policy with aims of improving it. Within 1 week, these plans were railroaded by the Occupy Wall Street Movement—and for the following 3 months, I did little else.

    Like many, the eviction of Zuccotti left me lost, searching for that infectious energy that bound so many together in efforts to transform the world. Like many, I’ve spent the time since trying to understand what we had & striving to get back to it.

    Like many I point to a lack of militancy in our movement—a commitment of one’s entire being—personally, politically, emotionally & physically—to the greater good. But I examined what action those beautiful words entailed, I exchanged “militancy” for the concept of “love ethic”—a distinction born of the belief that fights between “usses and thems” run counter to the collective “we”. “We” being human society with each person as an integral part—that must be seen, heard, felt & loved—in order to transform the whole.

    Like many, I found my beliefs easy to come by but difficult to act on. I always strived, but often struggled, to see, hear, feel, to love—even as I expected as much in return. I began to question, “If it is such a struggle to solidify amongst a few, how can we hope to strengthen love ethic across the many?”

    Unlike most, when my trial began: friends formed a support structure, comrades came to court, journalists reported injustices. When the verdict was read, cries of outrage were heard, the news spread, & sympathy was shared from around the world.

    Unlike most, during my weakest hour, I had never felt more supported. Though I had never ever felt more oppressed, I had never felt so loved. I stand resolved to keep fighting, because your love ethic props me up and allows me to do so.

    Unlike most, I am blessed with the support of so many. And though I am thankful, I am also thoughtful of the many forced to face such oppression alone. I know you have already done so much, but I’m going to ask for one thing more:

    If you feel safe enough to share, please raise your hand if you have suffered police violence? If you have suffered sexual violence? If you have suffered the violence of the justice system? If you have suffered the violence of the prison system?

    Oppression is rampant. Take a moment to try & really see, hear, feel the suffering of the many around you. Now imagine the power of your collective love ethic to stand against it.

    Only through the pervasive spread of such a love ethic by the many for the many—not just the privileged few—will we finally have ourselves a movement.

    McMillan takes comfort from her supporters and her family and from those of her heroes who endured prison for a just cause. She reads and rereads the speech Eugene V. Debs made to a federal court in Cleveland before he went to prison for opposing the draft in World War I. His words, she said, have become her own.

    “Your honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth,” Debs said. “I said it then, as I say it now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.”

    A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion Publisher, Zuade Kaufman Editor, Robert Scheer
    © 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.

  • #2
    Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

    McMillan says Grantley Bovell, who was in plainclothes and did not identify himself as a police officer, grabbed her from behind during a March 17, 2012, gathering of several hundred Occupy activists in Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park. In a video of the incident she appears to have instinctively elbowed him in the face, but she says she has no memory of what happened. Video and photographs—mostly not permitted by the trial judge to be shown in the courtroom—buttressed her version of events. There is no dispute that she was severely beaten by police and taken from the park to a hospital where she was handcuffed to a bed. On May 5 she was found guilty after a three-week trial of a felony assault in the second degree. She can receive anything from probation to seven years in prison.
    --hedges

    If this is accurate, it is scary as hell. I'd like all those people who think our government is so great to comment on this one.

    What is interesting to me, is that it is usually the federal government doing stuff like this, not local governments. I guess in Hedges view it would be Wall street's influence on NYC government. Well, if an idea seems to explain facts . . .

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

      'Scary as hell' is right. These are the kinds of abuses we talked about in social studies class when I was a kid, when our teacher wanted us to know how bad people had it in the Soviet Union and China.

      McMillan’s case is emblematic of the nationwide judicial persecution of activists, a persecution familiar to poor people of color.
      I am ashamed of myself. This has been going on with poor people of color for years, but I only related to it on a visceral level when hearing about it happening to a white, college educated woman.

      Her case stands in contrast with the blanket impunity given to the criminals of Wall Street. Some 8,000 nonviolent Occupy protesters have been arrested. Not one banker or investor has gone to jail for causing the 2008 financial meltdown. The disparity of justice mirrors the disparity in incomes and the disparity in power.
      Have we exhausted all peaceful means of redressing the wrongs done to our society by these sociopaths? Because it looks like they won.

      Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

        "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
        John Emerich Edward Dalberg, Lord Acton, 1887


        Lord Acton

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

          Cecily McMillan had been found guilty of deliberately elbowing a New York police officer. Photograph: Andrew Gombert/EPA


          An Occupy Wall Street activist has been sentenced to three months in jail for assaulting a New York police officer as he led her out of a protest.
          Cecily McMillan, who had been facing a maximum sentence of seven years, was told on Monday morning by Judge Ronald Zweibel that she "must take responsibility for her conduct".

          "A civilised society must not allow an assault to be committed under the guise of civil disobedience," said Zweibel at Manhattan criminal court. However, he added: "The court finds that a lengthy sentence would not serve the interests of justice in this case."

          McMillan, 25, received a three-month jail sentence to be followed by community service and five years of probation. Her lawyers expect her to serve two-thirds of the sentence. She will also receive credit for the two weeks she has been remanded at Rikers Island jail since being convicted.

          McMillan was earlier this month found guilty of deliberately elbowing officer Grantley Bovell in the face at a demonstration in Manhattan's Zuccotti Park in March 2012. He suffered a black eye and spent two weeks off work with headaches and sensitivity to light. McMillan insisted throughout her trial that she swung her arm instinctively after having one of her breasts grabbed from behind.

          Wearing a fuschia dress, the New School graduate student was on Monday led, handcuffed, into a courtroom lined by about 50 police officers. Reading a prepared speech, she told the judge that she lived by the “law of love”. She said: “Violence is not permitted. This being the law that I live by, I can say with certainty that I am innocent of the crime I have been convicted of”. She apologised for what she called “this accident”.

          However, in a sharply critical statement to the judge, assistant district attorney Shanda Strain said that McMillan had “not only physically assaulted the police officer but also falsely accused this police officer’s character both inside and outside of this courtroom”.

          Accusing McMillan of using the court as a “grandstand for her political opinions,” Strain baldly stated that the 25-year-old had committed perjury by accusing Bovell of grabbing her breast. “Through her lies, she has undermined the claims of genuine sexual assault victims who seek justice in this system,” she said. However, Strain said that a sentence of 90 days would be sufficient to “serve the interests of society”.

          After being pushed to the ground during her arrest, McMillan suffered further bruising and said that she had a seizure or anxiety attack. She previously said that she underwent treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder. McMillan’s attorney, Martin Stolar, told Zweibel: “I urge the court to take into account the injuries that Miss McMillan suffered subsequent to her arrest … which will last probably the rest of her life."

          Stolar told the Guardian outside court that the sentence was “less worse than it could have been”. He said: “The punishment, and whatever deterrent effect a punishment can have, was already delivered to Cecily the night she was arrested. As far as the police were concerned, she punched a cop and she got punched back, so street justice was delivered."

          McMillan’s felony conviction for second-degree assault is believed to be the most serious against any of the hundreds of members of Occupy who were prosecuted for offences around protests after the movement began in 2011. She had previously turned down an offer from prosecutors to plead guilty to the felony charge in exchange for a recommendation that she not receive a prison sentence.

          Following the sentencing, Erin Duggan Kramer, Vance's deputy chief of staff, said in a statement that the district attorney's office recognised the freedoms of speech and assembly as "bedrocks of our personal liberties" that were "deeply entrenched in our city’s culture". Claiming that "great leniency" had been shown to Occupy members charged with minor offences, Duggan Kramer said: "This defendant chose to take her case to trial, and was convicted by a jury of her peers for a violent felony.”

          Stolar pointed out to the judge that following McMillan’s conviction, nine of the 12 jurors in her trial wrote to Zweibel, asking him not to send her to prison and to show her leniency. Their letter was followed by similar requests from members of the New York city council and prominent pop musicians. Two members of Pussy Riot, the Russian punk activist group,visited McMillan at Rikers and also wrote to the judge.

          McMillan's support team also delivered a petition to Zweibel and Cyrus Vance, the district attorney, bearing what they said were 43,000 names of other people asking that she not be sent to prison. While acknowledging that the courts should not be dictated by public opinion, Stolar urged Zweibel to note that “so many people have spoken up and that they believe leniency is in order for Miss McMillan”.

          Singling out by name contributions from Kim Gordon, formerly of Sonic Youth, and Lauren Mayberry, of the Scottish group Chvrches, Stolar told Zweibel: “These are people that neither you nor I would recognise, but among this generation are fairly important”.

          Zweibel said: “The court agrees with many of Miss McMillan’s supporters that Miss McMillan is capable of making a positive contribution to society. However, as I stated before, a sentence must take into account the fact that Miss McMillan was convicted of assaulting a police officer.” He then delivered his order on her sentence.

          Several people in the public gallery began quietly singing 'We Shall Not Be Moved', adding “Cecily is innocent” to the lyrics. However, they stopped after being ordered to be quiet by a senior police officer.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

            Originally posted by shiny! View Post
            'Scary as hell' is right. These are the kinds of abuses we talked about in social studies class when I was a kid, when our teacher wanted us to know how bad people had it in the Soviet Union and China.



            I am ashamed of myself. This has been going on with poor people of color for years, but I only related to it on a visceral level when hearing about it happening to a white, college educated woman.



            Have we exhausted all peaceful means of redressing the wrongs done to our society by these sociopaths? Because it looks like they won.
            First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
            Because I was not a Socialist.

            Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
            Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

            Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
            Because I was not a Jew.

            Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

            And now for something completely different...the world as it is, not as we wish it to be.

            No liability for BofA for allegedly concealing $10 billion AIG case

            NEW YORK (Reuters) - A federal appeals court said Bank of America Corp was not liable to shareholders for allegedly concealing a $10 billion fraud lawsuit by American International Group Inc, whose filing led to a 20-percent one-day plunge in the bank's stock price.

            The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York on Monday found no showing that the bank, Chief Executive Brian Moynihan and other officials had intended to mislead shareholders and acted in a "highly unreasonable" manner by not disclosing the lawsuit before it was filed. AIG sued Bank of America on August 8, 2011 over alleged losses on more than $28 billion of mortgage-backed securities that the insurer had bought from the Charlotte, North Carolina-based bank and its Countrywide and Merrill Lynch units.
            Last edited by Woodsman; May 19, 2014, 02:56 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

              Originally posted by shiny! View Post



              Have we exhausted all peaceful means of redressing the wrongs done to our society by these sociopaths? Because it looks like they won.
              They have won.

              Violence was already tried. It failed. Protest was tried as well. That failed. You can't beat a group that can print their own protection money.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

                First Hitler (Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao) came for the gun owners, but I was not a gun owner so I didn't speak out.

                Then they came for conservatives (liberals, independents), but I was not a conservative (liberal, independent) and I didn't speak out.

                At the end there was no one to speak for Freedom.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

                  Originally posted by aaron View Post
                  They have won.
                  I don't think so.

                  Impotent protest is always laughed at…look at those weirdos wasting their time walking down the street. Potent protest is always violently put down. (The night before the killings at Kent State, national guardsmen were roaming the streets knocking students up against walls and stabbing them.)

                  The judicial systems in many big cities are corrupted. Zweibel is Hoffman. None of this is new to anyone except younger folks.

                  Hedges picked the titles carefully. “You Can’t Outlaw Revolution” was preceded by “The Crime of Peaceful Protest.”

                  We'll see.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

                    Originally posted by vt View Post
                    First Hitler (Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao) came for the gun owners, but I was not a gun owner so I didn't speak out.

                    Then they came for conservatives (liberals, independents), but I was not a conservative (liberal, independent) and I didn't speak out.

                    At the end there was no one to speak for Freedom.
                    My favorite thing about the right is their inability to comprehend irony. That combined with a fundamental lack of curiosity about the world often makes for high comedy and I find it particularly apropos this morning.

                    Pastor Neimoller's poem first came to international prominence in a book called "They Thought They Were Free." One passage seems appropriate to cite:

                    "And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way."
                    Last edited by Woodsman; May 20, 2014, 06:58 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

                      This has nothing to do with the right or left. It is about tyranny. Why go off into a useless tangent about "the fundamental lack of curiosity."

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...in_Switzerland.

                      "If you can't answer facts, confuse with BS" Typical of the right and left.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

                        Originally posted by vt View Post
                        This has nothing to do with the right or left. It is about tyranny. Why go off into a useless tangent about "the fundamental lack of curiosity."

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...in_Switzerland.

                        "If you can't answer facts, confuse with BS" Typical of the right and left.
                        Sure, vt. The doggerel you shared was framed in "conservative/liberal/independents" context but other than that the post has "nothing to do with the left or right." And kudos for proving my point about irony so elegantly. Useless tangent/Swiss gun politics - I love it!

                        Come on now, fess up. You're really a comic genius and have been putting us on all this time, haven't you? It's like our own Daily Show/Colbert Report every time you post!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

                          Woodsman, once again you automatically think that the right is always blind and wrong. VT is correct, this is not a right and left, it is simply wrong. I am sorry you can not see that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

                            Hey guys? How about we not have another thread devolve into another fruitless left/right argument? No offense intended, but you've said it all before and we've heard it all before. EJ is considering closing the public forums because of too many threads disintigrating into partisan insult fests. I, for one, don't want that to happen.

                            Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hedges on Cecily McMillan

                              Originally posted by jiimbergin View Post
                              Woodsman, once again you automatically think that the right is always blind and wrong. VT is correct, this is not a right and left, it is simply wrong. I am sorry you can not see that.
                              No, not automatically; and not at all reflexively or without thought and consideration. I've come to the understanding after decades of work and many years of personal time in the belly of the beastie. I think it's true for Democrats and most of those in the media and politics who still call themselves liberals.

                              You know, I totally get the impulse not to use these words and in a way I think it is laudable, if misguided. After years of participation and posting and getting to know something about many of the online personas here, it's my opinion that many folks here with center right/conservative convictions (the majority of us) are like fish in the ocean. The fish never notices the water is there until he's out of it. I crawled out years ago.

                              Perhaps vt's poetry confused things. It certainly came out of left ...err, right field. But that's vt's style. He's a drive by shooter, popping off a few crude ideological salvos and when challenged, crying "who me, I ain't dun nuthin - it's you!" Forgive me but it's wearing thin. There's plenty of ways to insult, but the most offensive insult to me is one to my intelligence.

                              As for the words, they're perfectly fine words and I know what they mean and how to use them accurately even if most people have forgotten. So I'll continue to use them where appropriate to describe reality as I understand it and detail what opinions I hold about this or that. At least until I get the boot or get tired of talking to myself .

                              It saddens me that we're all feeling the chilling effect of the pending closure of the public forums. No one wants that and so I understand the motives behind the increasing thought police activity. But the truth is self evident and words have meaning even if they make us uncomfortable. That said, I second Shiny's opinion. We heard it all before, so let's move along, shall we?
                              Last edited by Woodsman; May 20, 2014, 01:28 PM.

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