Hudson: Later than we're told

[lektrode]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

....
The lack of American culture is what I believe leads to the extraordinary prescription drug use by Americans for all kinds of various "problems" not just ones associated with food. It also constitutes to the lost sense of direction most Americans feel in their life.

For the most part the American culture is deplorable.

With that said the underlying principles of business and entrepreneurship coupled with being the reserve currency issuer and having the largest most advanced military in the world, America is still the best place to live.

Culturally? America is one of the worst countries to live in if you want to experience real culture.

-1 on this P.

IMHO - 'american culture' was born, if you will - with the drafting of The US Constitution and The Bill of Rights.

it was paid for with the blood of those who fought for its ideals over the past 238 years - altho there have been many instances where some have not fully appreciated (if not excluded by) this, but every day the battle continues.

a lot of modern day american 'culture' may be a debateable disappointment - as evidenced by most what pukes out of the lamestream media - and while many aspects of the output of The US entertainment industry are in fact an outrage to certain (middle eastern) 'cultures' - its still revered - if not imititated - by most of the 'free world' - and whats the sincerest form of flattery?

as Mr J states - paraphrasing - the measure of a country/culture is the ratio of people wanting IN vs wanting OUT

and by that measure, The USA is _still_ winning by a mile....

just my .02
(and let the debate/rebuttal begin ;)

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

IMHO - 'american culture' was born, if you will - with the drafting of The US Constitution and The Bill of Rights.

Yes, I agree but take a look around, no one believes that anymore or cares about what happened in the 1770s.

Havent they conducted polls where the majority of American's don't know when the Declaration of Independence was signed? Or even who is the current Vice President of the US?

I bet more often you will get this response: "Who cares about a bunch of dead white males and what they thought" than to get "the principles handed down by our founding fathers are the rock with which the US stands on"

[DSpencer]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

Yes, I agree but take a look around, no one believes that anymore or cares about what happened in the 1770s.

Havent they conducted polls where the majority of American's don't know when the Declaration of Independence was signed? Or even who is the current Vice President of the US?

I bet more often you will get this response: "Who cares about a bunch of dead white males and what they thought" than to get "the principles handed down by our founding fathers are the rock with which the US stands on"

There is no doubt in my mind that the majority of Americans are not well informed. However, I have to wonder if it was ever much different. What percent of Americans knew who the VP was in the year 1800 or 1900?

[shiny!]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

There was a distinct American culture, at least I remember a sense of it when I was young, but perhaps it's only my myopic memory of white suburban priveledge in a friendly city (San Antonio). But I remember a sense of trust, optimism, generosity. The Peace Corp. and bar-b-q's, parades celebrating our history, wide open lawns...

A friend recently showed me photos of the streets where he lived in South Africa... middle-class neighborhoods where every house was surrounded by walls and high gates. Apparently that's the norm. Suburban housing with invisible, undefended property lines and open yards is a uniquely American culture. It says a lot about us.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

A friend recently showed me photos of the streets where he lived in South Africa... middle-class neighborhoods where every house was surrounded by walls and high gates. Apparently that's the norm. Suburban housing with invisible, undefended property lines and open yards is a uniquely American culture. It says a lot about us

That is South Africa not Russia. In Russia you can walk up to the Duma (like our Congress) and there are only two police officers and just meet the politicians on the street outside the building. There are no fences, in fact there are no fences anywhere unlike in Brazil where every house in the city center is behind a locked gate with a guard.

I met the Mayor of Moscow outside the Kremlin while he was giving a quick interview about meeting the people.

He had two bodyguards (one in a suit, another in jeans) but people walked up to him freely.

There is a massive misconception about Russia in general.

Yes, Russia is corrupt, but the Russians unlike the Americans know that Putin and the other leaders are corrupt. In America the leaders are corrupt in a more insidious way where most don't think their chosen political party is corrupt nor are the leaders.

But that doesn't excuse the corruptions in Russia or the US.

[don]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

most don't think their chosen political party is corrupt nor are the leaders.

just the other party and its leaders

Yada, yada, yada

(good line, Zen)

[lektrode]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

most don't think their chosen political party is corrupt nor are the leaders.

just the other party and its leaders

Yada, yada, yada

(good line, Zen)

+2

why some of us - as VT has been agitating for - want to dump - and dump on - the 2 party system altogether.

altho i'll admit to the opinion that the present bunch in control of 2/3 of the branches is dividing us far worse than the prev occupants EVER did.

adding:

but then, thats a function of our lamestream media

and am intending on a 'feature presentation' of my personal examples of American Culture at its finest - but gotta git, before my wx window closes - have to go outside and be yardboy for the afternoon

[don]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

No Problemski . . .

Despite all the words - and equity market rallies (confirming that it must be true) - it would appear Mr. Putin and his men have been quietly "not" preparing for all-out war (which makes us wonder, aside from the ICBMs, just what it would look like if they were actually preparing for war). Below is a clip of today's "simulated massive nuclear attack" drills conducted in Russia.

[aaron]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

Fair enough. But in all cultures experiencing it matters and even from one experience you can get a high level overview of what makes up that culture.

The reason why most Americans cannot sum up the American culture into a few paragraphs is because there is no American culture. It doesn't exist, at least not anymore, IMO. In all my years thinking about this question; What is American culture? The only answer I can come up with is: Business/money/entrepreneurship.

I understand from the American perspective it is difficult to sum up a culture in a few paragraphs but I bet if you started asking foreigners/immigrants they could and do frequently sum up their culture in a few paragraphs. It is easily recognized and described but American's can't unless they belong to a subculture say "country culture."

I have contemplated this question since I was 18 due to the questions the father of my previous girlfriend from Iran asked. "He would ask, what is American culture?" From his perspective Americans had no culture, nothing they could point to that could describe the country in whole, no values, no norms that were easily distinguishable by individuals outside of the culture.

Unlike Persian culture where he could point to identifying facts, thought processes, history, food, dance, holidays, religion etc he could bring up nothing that is considered universally American culture.

Every country I have ever been to I could feel the culture in the air, the way the people act, their religion, their food, their way of life.

The lack of American culture is what I believe leads to the extraordinary prescription drug use by Americans for all kinds of various "problems" not just ones associated with food. It also constitutes to the lost sense of direction most Americans feel in their life.

For the most part the American culture is deplorable.

With that said the underlying principles of business and entrepreneurship coupled with being the reserve currency issuer and having the largest most advanced military in the world, America is still the best place to live.

Culturally? America is one of the worst countries to live in if you want to experience real culture.

"The lack of American culture is what I believe leads to the extraordinary prescription drug use by Americans for all kinds of various "problems" not just ones associated with food." - Talk about a leap. Come on prodigy, you usually do not make such generalizations. Who pissed in your American Wheaties?

The U.S. is multicultural. That IS its culture. Immigrants tend to bring the good parts of the culture here and leave the rest (or they would not have come in the first place).

[photon555]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

The reunification of Crimea with Russia and the stated decision of Putin to safeguard ethnic Russians in border areas demonstrates his determination to stand against continued Western attempts to encircle and neuter Russia. There will be interesting times just ahead if the Western elites/NWO continue to bluster and bluff concerning Ukraine while holding a broken straight. Putin has drawn a fat red line around Crimea and at least eastern Ukraine and he has no intention of pulling an Obama. The public policy of Obama and McCain and others appears to be that they are willing to fight to the last Ukrainian, and if it spills over into Europe, it just means the MIC sells more weapons. No matter what happens we will no doubt be spending more on "defense" than we otherwise would be.

Western Ukraine will be caught between a rock and a hard place: become an ally or vassal of Russia or be a debt slave to the IMF while their homegrown oligarchs drain their remaining economic life in either case. Their only hope, which is slim to none, is a truly patriotic figure who could gain leadership and steer a course of neutrality, while at the same time clawing back the ill-gotten gains of the oligarchs to revitalize the economy. Anyone want to offer odds on that happening?

[FrankL]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

"The lack of American culture is what I believe leads to the extraordinary prescription drug use by Americans for all kinds of various "problems" not just ones associated with food." - Talk about a leap. Come on prodigy, you usually do not make such generalizations. Who pissed in your American Wheaties?

The U.S. is multicultural. That IS its culture. Immigrants tend to bring the good parts of the culture here and leave the rest (or they would not have come in the first place).

I think that depends on what type of immigrants you allow in. Is it for skilled jobs (i.e. immigrants with a degree), or unskilled labour?
How many immigrants do you let in? Most societies have a limited capacity to absorb immigrants with different cultural backgrounds. When you exceed this capacity, tensions will rise quickly as 'natives' will perceive the different culture as a threat to their own.

[don]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

I think that depends on what type of immigrants you allow in. Is it for skilled jobs (i.e. immigrants with a degree), or unskilled labour?
How many immigrants do you let in? Most societies have a limited capacity to absorb immigrants with different cultural backgrounds. When you exceed this capacity, tensions will rise quickly as 'natives' will perceive the different culture as a threat to their own.

Following WW1, during which trans-Atlantic immigration was choked off, waves of new immigrants were allowed in to increase both the labor force and the reserve army of labor. These immigrants were primarily more Irish, new Italians and new Eastern European Jews. All were despised by the 'natives', who correctly saw their livelihoods threatened by the increase in labor competition. In California, when the anglo and Mexican farm workers began to join forces, workers from the Philippines were shipped in to address the problem. Almost exclusively young men, this triangulation of social tensions worked in the growers' favor for decades.

[FrankL]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

Following WW1, during which trans-Atlantic immigration was choked off, waves of new immigrants were allowed in to increase both the labor force and the reserve army of labor. These immigrants were primarily more Irish, new Italians and new Eastern European Jews. All were despised by the 'natives', who correctly saw their livelihoods threatened by the increase in labor competition. In California, when the anglo and Mexican farm workers began to join forces, workers from the Philippines were shipped in to address the problem. Almost exclusively young men, this triangulation of social tensions worked in the growers' favor for decades.

First off, this post is off topic and its contents consist of my interpretation of events, and might not fit what other people think.

In post-ww2 Europe, waves of uneducated immigrants were let in from Turkey and parts of northern Africa (mostly from the Maghreb region), to perform unskilled or low skilled labour. This created downward pressure on labour costs, as well as breaking power of organized labour (unions). I'm sure this is one of the reasons why 'big capital' is so much in favour of selling the idea of a 'multi-cultural utopia'.

Socialists were sold on the idea too as multi-culturalism was meant to destroy the idea of nationalism, in their eyes the catalyst of the rise of fascism and Nazism. Fits in perfectly with their dream of a federal Europe!

While there have been many immigration streams within Europe itself over the millennia, most immigrants have assimilated into the society where they moved to, as differences in culture, although existing, were not insurmountable. There are some notable exceptions, such as Chinese and Jewish communities, that exist or have existed in notable numbers without assimilating. These might peacefully coexist with natives, except when there is some perceived tension between these groups. Chinese usually completely keep upon themselves (as a ethnic group in a foreign country), so not much interaction going on. In contrast, co-existence of Jewish communities didn't go as well in parts of Europe as history has shown so far.

Right now, with the economic downturn, tensions are rising again in Europe, this time between natives and the mostly northern African immigrants. Might get very explosive if the economy turns for the worse in the future. Especially keep an on France, with a 15% Arab population and a resentful native population that will not accept that their country is no longer the same as it was 50 years ago (voting for politicians that will 'send them back'; the very action which would ignite civil war at this point).

[Woodsman]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

Fair enough. But in all cultures experiencing it matters and even from one experience you can get a high level overview of what makes up that culture.

The reason why most Americans cannot sum up the American culture into a few paragraphs is because there is no American culture. It doesn't exist, at least not anymore, IMO. In all my years thinking about this question; What is American culture? The only answer I can come up with is: Business/money/entrepreneurship.

I understand from the American perspective it is difficult to sum up a culture in a few paragraphs but I bet if you started asking foreigners/immigrants they could and do frequently sum up their culture in a few paragraphs. It is easily recognized and described but American's can't unless they belong to a subculture say "country culture."

I have contemplated this question since I was 18 due to the questions the father of my previous girlfriend from Iran asked. "He would ask, what is American culture?" From his perspective Americans had no culture, nothing they could point to that could describe the country in whole, no values, no norms that were easily distinguishable by individuals outside of the culture.

Unlike Persian culture where he could point to identifying facts, thought processes, history, food, dance, holidays, religion etc he could bring up nothing that is considered universally American culture.

Every country I have ever been to I could feel the culture in the air, the way the people act, their religion, their food, their way of life.

The lack of American culture is what I believe leads to the extraordinary prescription drug use by Americans for all kinds of various "problems" not just ones associated with food. It also constitutes to the lost sense of direction most Americans feel in their life.

For the most part the American culture is deplorable.

With that said the underlying principles of business and entrepreneurship coupled with being the reserve currency issuer and having the largest most advanced military in the world, America is still the best place to live.

Culturally? America is one of the worst countries to live in if you want to experience real culture.

POZ, come on. If you think about it for a minute, you know instantly that the statement "there is no American culture...it doesn't exist" is demonstrably false. Look, the wiki even has an article about American culture, so it must be real, no?

Culture first refers to the human ability to represent experiences symbolically and is an artifact of the human creative imagination. Based on this ability, culture manifests itself in the unique ways people classify these experience and act creatively in response to them. As such it is a universal human capacity inasmuch as every society exhibits social and material culture of one form or another.

We recognize culture through intangibles such as language and other learned behavior patterns characteristic of the individuals in a society. Under any accepted definition, America has a significant and dynamic culture starting from the patterns of speech across the continent, continuing with our folkways and folklore, and ending with those things we generally recognize as "culture" - art, literature, science, etc.

Maybe your intent is to highlight your perception that our's is a mordant culture? If so, you're in good company. You might appreciate the work of Dr. Morris Berman. I think his views and yours are in potential alignment. The Times had a less than enthusiastic review, but you can make up your own mind. There's also a first chapter you can read.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

Following WW1, during which trans-Atlantic immigration was choked off, waves of new immigrants were allowed in to increase both the labor force and the reserve army of labor. These immigrants were primarily more Irish, new Italians and new Eastern European Jews. All were despised by the 'natives', who correctly saw their livelihoods threatened by the increase in labor competition. In California, when the anglo and Mexican farm workers began to join forces, workers from the Philippines were shipped in to address the problem. Almost exclusively young men, this triangulation of social tensions worked in the growers' favor for decades.

Yes, but those immigrants after WWI and WWII had no choice but to assimilate, they no longer had a connection to their homeland or language except for the other new immigrants in the US, unless of course they wanted to jump on a ship for 3 months+.

Today, if you want to chat with your aunt in Cebu province you can call her for free on Viber or video chat for free with Skype.

Very little disconnect now occurs between immigrant and their home country which leads to less assimilation.