Hudson: Later than we're told

[don]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told


Misrepresenting the Libertarian Position on Putin



Despite the complete failure of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, war-mongers and even self-proclaimed libertarians don't understand what is going on in the Ukraine, why it's none of our business, or even how the civil war in Ukraine started.

A friend sent me an article today from the site Conservatives for Liberty called Confused libertarians are Supporting Putin by Gabrielė Stakaitytė.

Supposedly the site is an "independent libertarian, free market and socially liberal campaign group".

It is difficult to judge a site on the basis of one article, but there is a difference between supporting Putin and saying Ukraine is essentially none of our business, the true libertarian position.

According to Gabrielė "From soap operas to ballet performances, the Russian government is doing everything to influence the cultural life of Eastern Europe, and to maintain a stranglehold on the mentality of the people."

Let's assume that is true. Here is an equally true statement "From soap operas to ballet performances, the EU is doing everything to influence the cultural life of all of Europe, and to maintain a stranglehold on the mentality of the people."

Here's another "The US is doing everything to everyone globally, and by military force where necessary, maintain a hypocritical stranglehold on any country that dares go against the vision of the United States."

One can come up with all sorts of similar statements.

Just what did warmongers expect when the US broke promises and expanded NATO to the East? Did they expect Russia would sit back and do nothing? Did they want to start WW III?

The US fomented the overthrow of the last Ukrainian government and now does not like the result. Similarly, no one in their right mind is happy about the overthrow of the Shah of Iran decades ago, the lives lost in Vietnam, and the results of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Back to the point. This is not our battle. If those in Crimea want to join Russia, no one should care. Gabrielė blats the vote in Crimea?

Was it rigged? Let's assume it was. Was it rigged to the point that an honest vote would have led to a different result. No it wasn't.

Gabrielė says "Another example of confused libertarians supporting Putin is calling the new Ukrainian government illegitimate, or even fascist, whatever that is supposed to mean. The Ukrainian government is no less legitimate than the first US government, having come to power after a popular revolution."

Good grief. Look at the irony! If the current Ukrainian government is no less legitimate than the first US government, one can say the exact same thing about Crimea!

By implication, if Gabrielė likes the result, the action is OK, if she doesn't, then it's not. That is essentially the hypocrisy of the US position in a nutshell.

I do not believe many libertarians are cheering Putin per se. Perhaps one can find a few self-proclaimed libertarians openly cheering Putin, but people can claim to be whatever they want, and to the point of blatant hypocrisy, Gabrielė does just that.

Mike "Mish" Shedlock


http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...27QW9rmXdOc.99

[gwynedd1]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

This article is nothing more than Russian propaganda (RT) to support Putin's viewpoint. Of course we have U.S. propaganda also to support the Obama administration's viewpoint.

I have closely studied Russian history for a few decades and fully understand their insecurity because of invasions going back centuries. At the same time the misery and mass murders of the Soviet leadership from 1917 onward leads one to doubt any credibility they have currently.

There an old adage I remember which stated: "When looking at a divorce between a man and a women, there are three sides to the issue: her side, his side, and the truth"

Disputes between nations or regions are no different.

vt,

Referring to Russian history while casually referring to Soviet leadership does not inspire confidence. No one does the same between the Seleucid empire and the Parthian empire. No one considers Norman England as they do pre-Norman English rule.

In fact from my point of view the Russian Empire was defeated by the Soviets who essentially ruled Russia as its largest vassal. Lot of Russians died fighting the Soviets. Can't really say the same about Germans dying to oppose Nazism with nothing but the odd Dietrich Bonhoeffer.



Now I am more sympathetic to your last sentence. Russia has never been given too much credit for its love of Liberty. That is one error we have been sure not to make.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

I just returned last night from Moscow.

The Russian people are not worried about Ukraine. They know that Putin runs the country and have no misconceptions about his power and seem to be resigned to the fact that they have no control over any process in the country except what immediately confronts them on a daily basis.

Yes, maybe there is a recession coming or already arrived but I saw tons of people at the restaurants, in the parks, enjoying themselves and not a worry about the Ukrainian situation.

I spoke to one business owner at length and he told me that since the 2008 crisis his business dipped 10x and never recovered. Yes, it never recovered and has stayed depressed since.

Their economy in general has not recovered from the US caused financial crisis.

But the people is the countries greatest strength. Once you get past the cold veneer (as smiles are reserved for people you know) the Russian people are warm and extremely romantic, much much more romantic than Americans.

Their culture is centered around their long exhaustive history of literature, ballet, opera, romance and military triumph etc. They spend their days working then enjoying their families (as the weekend is reserved strictly for family activities and children) and all extra money should be spent on the family not superficial products or large houses/cars etc.

The amount of monuments/statues/parks dedicated to children or to historical children's stories is staggering.

If there is one thing Russians are not it's superficial especially pertaining to looks. I saw many beautiful women with average looking men (and it didnt seem like money was the deciding factor in their relationship) and a lot of couples where the man was much shorter than the woman even subtracting out for high heels.


The majority of Americans think the Russian girls they come into contact with are materialistic but to a Russian woman all Americans are much more materialistic than a Russian woman. They don't go every month to buy new clothes or the latest iphone or new gadget and most don't even care about wearing perfume (or deodorant for that matter) even when they have money to do so.

If you ever visit Russia you will be pleasantly surprised by the people.

The city of Moscow is beautiful, along with the people. It truly is a diamond that few Americans even understand, IMO.

They do however like to buy property as they see it as a store of value compared to the risk of holding Rubles. Since the fall of the USSR the property prices have only increased in Moscow and that includes through the 2008 financial crisis.

It is generally believed that property prices will only continue to go up as more and more people are moving to Moscow (at least that is their view of Moscow apartments).

Almost all property is bought in cash and they have a strong aversion to debt.

I will make a post in the travel section of iTulip.

[ER59]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

The Russian people are not worried about Ukraine. They know that Putin runs the country and have no misconceptions about his power and seem to be resigned to the fact that they have no control over any process in the country except what immediately confronts them on a daily basis.

I am Russian and visited my friends and classmates in St. Petersburg a month ago. I have a very different picture. Most Russians are really worried about what's going on in Ukraine & Russia. Lots of people have friends and/or family in Ukraine. Some friends stopped talking to each other. Some family members do not call each other anymore. The society is deeply divided. And it was end of March. When I call my friends now, they do not want to talk about Ukraine because it hurts.

But the people is the countries greatest strength. Once you get past the cold veneer (as smiles are reserved for people you know) the Russian people are warm and extremely romantic, much much more romantic than Americans.

I think you are romantic. Russians were killing & selling their own "brothers" for centuries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Russia. They are pretty nationalistic and have all kind of humiliating words for Jews, Muslims, etc. There is a youtube's clip about a Moscow subway's train with the "Only for Russians" cart. When a young man of a "doubtful" nationality stepped into it, he was killed in the middle of the day and NOBODY even tried to help him. There are ugly people everywhere. And if the law does not work (and Russian law is not enforced), the ugliness spreads like a cancer.

Their culture is centered around their long exhaustive history of literature, ballet, opera, romance and military triumph etc. They spend their days working then enjoying their families (as the weekend is reserved strictly for family activities and children) and all extra money should be spent on the family not superficial products or large houses/cars etc.

There are intelligent people in Russia, no doubt about it. Most of them are concentrated in Moscow and St. Petersburg. However, there are many who are not educated, do not know much about their own history and forget about ballet: this is for "intelligentsia". Those people do not like anybody with "a hat and/or glasses" and their hatred is deeply rooted in the totalitarian society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism

The amount of monuments/statues/parks dedicated to children or to historical children's stories is staggering.

This is true and most of it what is left from the socialism. Kids had all kind of clubs (dance, music, chess, choir, etc.) with no fee and children clubs were placed in the best buildings of every city/town.

If there is one thing Russians are not it's superficial especially pertaining to looks. I saw many beautiful women with average looking men (and it didnt seem like money was the deciding factor in their relationship) and a lot of couples where the man was much shorter than the woman even subtracting out for high heels.

Have you heard of the Russian men lifespan? http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...years-to-vodka There is a tremendous shortage of good men in Russia. If a Russian man does not drink, it's good enough for most women. Most Russian women have no choice: ugly, short, lazy, stupid, smoke, smell, womanizer, no respect for women, whatever ... . The only hope of many intelligent and hardworking Russian women is a foreigner or none at all. Many conversations of young Russian ladies in Moscow are dedicated to this topic. Russian women spend most of their money on cosmetics, clothes and anything else to look good. It is so important there that they would not go out to a local store without being well dressed & having their faces "done". That is expected. If you noticed, many Russian women dress provocatively and this is expected as well.

The majority of Americans think the Russian girls they come into contact with are materialistic but to a Russian woman all Americans are much more materialistic than a Russian woman. They don't go every month to buy new clothes or the latest iphone or new gadget and most don't even care about wearing perfume (or deodorant for that matter) even when they have money to do so.

Because they are poor! Life is difficult. Food is getting very expensive. I assure you that many russian women would like to have iphone but they cannot afford it. Russians learned to suppress their materialistic desires because they cannot be fulfilled anyway. If you do not have much money, it helps to divert your attention to something free. For example, your family, friends, nature & soul: here comes literature, classical music, ballet (getting very expensive), intellectual conversations, etc.

Almost all property is bought in cash and they have a strong aversion to debt.

It all depends with whom you are talking. My guess that only 1% of Moscow population could pay cash unless they or their parents got an "almost free" apartment at the time when USSR collapsed. If you have an apartment already, then you sell an old apartment and pay cash to buy a new one.

I sold my apartment in St. Petersburg and it was bought by a couple with a loan. My friend bought an apartment with a loan. These people have good stable jobs but they do not have cash lying around. And prices are very high in Moscow. It's the least affordable city in Russia. Average Moscow apartment outside of the center starts around $210,000 or more.

[ER59]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

Behind the Masks in Ukraine, Many Faces of Rebellion

SLOVYANSK, Ukraine — The rebel leader spread a topographic map in front of a closed grocery store here as a Ukrainian military helicopter flew past a nearby hill. Ukrainian troops had just seized positions along a river, about a mile and a half away. The commander thought they might advance.

He issued orders with the authority of a man who had seen many battles. “Go down to the bridge and set up the snipers,” the leader, who gave only a first name, Yuri, said to a former Ukrainian paratrooper, who jogged away. Yuri commands the 12th Company, part of the self-proclaimed People’s Militia of the Donetsk People’s Republic, a previously unknown and often masked rebel force that since early April has seized government buildings in eastern Ukraine and, until Saturday, held prisoner a team of European military observers it accused of being NATO spies. His is one of the faces behind the shadowy paramilitary takeover. But even with his mask off, much about his aims, motivations and connections remains murky, illustrating why this expanding conflict is still so complex.

Yuri, who appears to be in his mid-50s, is in many ways an ordinary eastern Ukrainian of his generation. A military veteran, he survived the Soviet collapse to own a small construction business in Druzhkovka, about 15 miles south of here.
But his rebel stature has a particular root: He is also a former Soviet special forces commander who served in Afghanistan, a background that could make him both authentically local and a capable Kremlin proxy.

In this war, clouded by competing claims on both sides, one persistent mystery has been the identity and affiliations of the militiamen, who have pressed the confrontation between Russia and the West into its latest bitter phase. Moscow says they are Ukrainians and not part of the Russian armed forces, as the so-called green men in Crimea turned out to be. Western officials and the Ukrainian government insist that Russians have led, organized and equipped the fighters.

A deeper look at the 12th Company — during more than a week of visiting its checkpoints, interviewing its fighters and observing them in action against a Ukrainian military advance here on Friday — shows that in its case neither portrayal captures the full story. The rebels of the 12th Company appear to be Ukrainians but, like many in the region, have deep ties to and affinity for Russia. They are veterans of the Soviet, Ukrainian or Russian Armies, and some have families on the other side of the border. Theirs is a tangled mix of identities and loyalties.

Further complicating the picture, while the fighters share a passionate distrust of Ukraine’s government and the Western powers that support it, they disagree among themselves about their ultimate goals. They argue about whether Ukraine should redistribute power via greater federalization or whether the region should be annexed by Russia, and they harbor different views about which side might claim Kiev, the capital, and even about where the border of a divided Ukraine might lie.

Yuri speaks with ambivalence about the possibility of Russian annexation, even as Russia’s tri-colored flag fluttered beside the porch where he directed his troops. He says he participated in the seizure of Ukraine’s intelligence service building in Donetsk on April 7 and led the capture of this city’s police building five days later, twin operations that helped establish the militia’s foothold. Videos and photographs of the second attack confirm his story.

Throughout the week, as Ukrainian soldiers sometimes pressed closer, he chuckled at the claims by officials in Kiev and the West that his operations had been guided by Russian military intelligence officers. There is no Russian master, he said. “We have no Muscovites here,” he said. “I have experience enough.” That experience, he and his fighters say, includes four years as a Soviet small-unit commander in Kandahar, Afghanistan, in the 1980s. The 119 fighters he said he leads, who appear to range in age from their 20s to their 50s, all speak of prior service in Soviet or Ukrainian infantry, airborne, special forces or air-defense units.

One, Kostya, served in the post-Soviet Russian Army, where he was a paratrooper. But he too claimed Ukrainian citizenship, which he said he received two years ago after moving to the Donetsk region in 1997 to live near his mother. Two others said they were from outside eastern Ukraine, one from Odessa, in the south, and the other from Dnipropetrovsk, in the center.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/world/europe/behind-the-masks-in-ukraine-many-faces-of-rebellion.html?hpw&rref=world

[aaron]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

Things seem to be moving along at a pace not appreciated here.

One oddity of all this. The historical record, in many cases, illustrates the global bond of the world's elites, including 'total war' waged between them. When the smoke clears, brotherhood is resumed. What to make of the personal financial retributions of the US? A sign of its weakness in the present balance of military power in the Ukraine? Warfare of a new type in the age of FIRE? Interesting times . . . .

The Iran and Korean sanctions have been shown to only hurt their respective populations. I like the new strategy. It makes the right people hurt. And, when things get worse, all those frozen funds will be taken and used to pay for the cost of "rebuilding Ukraine" or subsidizing fuel, etc.

[don]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

In response to Misrepresenting the Libertarian Position on Putin and the annexation of Crimea by Russia a close friend responded ...

The reality is that the international community overwhelming does not recognize the annexation. Annexation by force is no longer how the world does business and that is what is at stake here. That is why it cannot be allowed to stand. As Radek Sikorski the Foreign Minister of Poland, whose country was also ripped apart and partially annexed by Russia before World War II said, "Do not underestimate our determination not to return to the politics of the 20th Century."

Three-Part Reality

Here is the three part reality.

1. [*=left]Crimea is again part of Russia whether the world community likes it or not.
   [*=left]The annexation will stand.
   [*=left]The only thing that can change the above outcome is another major war.

Reflections on World Opinion

Recall that world opinion once said the earth was flat. Was it?

The US had no legitimate business in Vietnam or Iraq. The citizens of those countries did not want us there. World opinion (supportive at the time) did not make either invasion just. Polls today would likely show completely different results on the wisdom of those wars.

Personally, I do not care what world opinion is on Crimea. Nor did I care when majority opinion found it acceptable for the US to be in Vietnam or for the US to invade Iraq.

I do care about the opinions of people who live in Crimea. Overwhelmingly, Crimeans want to be part of Russia.

Question: Who the hell is the world, the UN, or anyone else to tell people living in Crimea any different?

Answer: Not only is it is the height of arrogance to force a different viewpoint on Crimeans, it also risks WW III to impose that arrogance.

Nonetheless, my friend (let's call him F1) says the annexation "cannot be allowed to stand".

Really?!

As long as we are discussing world opinions, let's consider the opinion of US citizens.

CBS news reports Most Say U.S. Doesn’t Have a Responsibility in Ukraine. "A majority of 61 percent of Americans do not think the U.S. has a responsibility to do something about the situation between Russia and Ukraine, nearly twice as many as the 32 percent who think it does. There is widespread bipartisan agreement on this."

Do opinions matter or don't they?

Tellingly, opinions only seem to matter when one agrees with them!

Paper Legalities

I have another friend (F2) who also disagrees with my overall point of view on Ukraine. F2 is a lawyer who wants to remain anonymous. F1, F2, and I all communicate daily. We see each other's responses.

F2 commented on F1's "paper thin distinctions". F2 also stated "There is no consistent legal principle that drives these events. It's always power. Eventually the international community recognizes reality. The international community's quasi/legal acts don't create reality."

On that, I am in complete agreement. In time, probably quickly (unless a major war breaks our), the international community will recognize Crimea is part of Russia.

F1 responded "I am feeling pretty good about my position. The world isn't talking about sanctions, and bolstering NATO'S eastern defenses because they see paper thin distinctions."

Will world opinion and recognition that Crimea is part of Russia change F1's mind? Time will tell.

Outrage Over Odessa

Reader Rich pinged me with his thoughts on Odessa and media bias.

Hello Mish
Thanks for your comments on Ukraine

It seems to me it's essentially a state's rights issue since polls indicate that most in the east favor more autonomy from Kiev and only a minority want independence or annexation by Russia.

But where is the outrage in the Western press over the gruesome events in Odessa. There are videos of people shooting into windows while the building was burning and people were trying to escape the flames. Why the outrage over Kiev snipers, but near silence over what happened in Odessa?

Lastly, what has been the role of CIA/FBI in directing / training Kiev's special forces who are attacking the east? Russia is almost certainly stirring the pot, but the US/EU has done so for months and years, and almost certainly continues to do so.

Where is the serious, unbiased reporting on this? I can find a little at the Guardian, BBC, and Al Jazeera. RT has useful information but they are not unbiased.

US press has an unquestioning Cold War mentality and defines things as either pro-Russia or pro-west. Given the complexities and subtleties, where is the unbiased reporting and analyses by Western mainstream media?

Rich

Question: Where is the unbiased reporting and analyses by Western mainstream media?

Answer: Generally "nonexistent". And those of us who present a different point of view are accused of being pro-Russia, unpatriotic, or traitors.

I have several emails from people who hope I am tortured to death for my opinions.

Actions vs. Words

Finally, let's consider the opinion of another close friend of mine, Pater Tenebrarum at the Acting Man Blog.

Via email, also in response to Misrepresenting the Libertarian Position on Putin, Pater writes ...

Very well said!
You saved me from having to write something along these lines myself.

Besides, here are some of the things Putin has said over time. The first quote is in response to the crisis he inherited from Yeltsin:

"During the time of the Soviet Union the role of the state in economy was made absolute, which eventually lead to the total non-competitiveness of the economy. That lesson cost us very dearly. I am sure nobody would want history to repeat itself. We should also be aware that for during the last months, we have been witnessing the washout of the entrepreneurship spirit. That includes the principle of the personal responsibility – of a businessman, an investor or a share-holder – for his or her own decisions. There are no grounds to suggest that by putting the responsibility over to the state, one can achieve better results. Another thing – handling crisis must not turn into financial populism, into rejecting a responsible macro-economic policy. Unreasonable expansion of the budget deficit, accumulation of the national debt – are as destructive as an adventurous stock market game."

"While a modern state must honor its obligation 'to take care of its population and ensure its social protection' or face the risk of collapse, European countries have been 'living beyond their means' and are now witnessing the rise of a dependency mentality … [that] endangers not only the economy but the moral foundation of society. It is no secret that many citizens of less developed countries come to Europe specifically to live on social welfare."

"Let us be frank: provoking military-political instability and other regional conflicts is also a convenient way of deflecting people’s attention from mounting social and economic problems. Regrettably, further attempts of this kind cannot be ruled out."

"We must seek support in the moral values that have ensured the progress of our civilization. Honesty and hard work, responsibility and faith in our strength are bound to bring us success. There should be no place for despondency. The crisis can and must be fought by uniting our intellectual, spiritual and material resources."

"Unfortunately, more and more often we hear that increasing military spending will help solve today’s social and economic problems. The logic here is quite simple. Additional allocations for military needs create new jobs.
[...] At a glance, it seems to be merely a method to fight the crisis and unemployment. Perhaps, in the short run, such a measure may yield some results. But in reality, instead of solving the problem, militarization pushes it to a deeper level. It draws away from the economy immense financial and material resources, which could have been used much more efficiently elsewhere."

"One must not allow oneself to skid down to isolationism and unbridled economic egoism. ... The second possible mistake would be excessive interference into the economic life of the country. And the absolute faith into the all-mightiness of the state."

Can one in all honesty disagree with any of this? Admittedly, and unfortunately, Putin may not walk the walk, but Russia does have a 13% flat tax, and that alone is eminently praiseworthy.

Enforcing Paper Legalities

If Putin did what he said, and the US acted in accordance with its own constitution, the world would be far better off. In terms of significance, the latter is far more important.

Obama, Bush, and numerous presidents before them, all did what they wanted, not what was in accordance with the constitution.

When we go to enforce "paper legalities" the world over, we would be wise to act in accordance with our own paper first.

Mike "Mish" Shedlock

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...LrmHQ3PlMFC.99

[Woodsman]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

I am Russian and visited my friends and classmates in St. Petersburg a month ago. I have a very different picture. Most Russians are really worried about what's going on in Ukraine & Russia. Lots of people have friends and/or family in Ukraine. Some friends stopped talking to each other. Some family members do not call each other anymore. The society is deeply divided. And it was end of March. When I call my friends now, they do not want to talk about Ukraine because it hurts.

I think you are romantic. Russians were killing & selling their own "brothers" for centuries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Russia. They are pretty nationalistic and have all kind of humiliating words for Jews, Muslims, etc. There is a youtube's clip about a Moscow subway's train with the "Only for Russians" cart. When a young man of a "doubtful" nationality stepped into it, he was killed in the middle of the day and NOBODY even tried to help him. There are ugly people everywhere. And if the law does not work (and Russian law is not enforced), the ugliness spreads like a cancer.

There are intelligent people in Russia, no doubt about it. Most of them are concentrated in Moscow and St. Petersburg. However, there are many who are not educated, do not know much about their own history and forget about ballet: this is for "intelligentsia". Those people do not like anybody with "a hat and/or glasses" and their hatred is deeply rooted in the totalitarian society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism

This is true and most of it what is left from the socialism. Kids had all kind of clubs (dance, music, chess, choir, etc.) with no fee and children clubs were placed in the best buildings of every city/town.

Have you heard of the Russian men lifespan? http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...years-to-vodka There is a tremendous shortage of good men in Russia. If a Russian man does not drink, it's good enough for most women. Most Russian women have no choice: ugly, short, lazy, stupid, smoke, smell, womanizer, no respect for women, whatever ... . The only hope of many intelligent and hardworking Russian women is a foreigner or none at all. Many conversations of young Russian ladies in Moscow are dedicated to this topic. Russian women spend most of their money on cosmetics, clothes and anything else to look good. It is so important there that they would not go out to a local store without being well dressed & having their faces "done". That is expected. If you noticed, many Russian women dress provocatively and this is expected as well.


Because they are poor! Life is difficult. Food is getting very expensive. I assure you that many russian women would like to have iphone but they cannot afford it. Russians learned to suppress their materialistic desires because they cannot be fulfilled anyway. If you do not have much money, it helps to divert your attention to something free. For example, your family, friends, nature & soul: here comes literature, classical music, ballet (getting very expensive), intellectual conversations, etc.

It all depends with whom you are talking. My guess that only 1% of Moscow population could pay cash unless they or their parents got an "almost free" apartment at the time when USSR collapsed. If you have an apartment already, then you sell an old apartment and pay cash to buy a new one.

I sold my apartment in St. Petersburg and it was bought by a couple with a loan. My friend bought an apartment with a loan. These people have good stable jobs but they do not have cash lying around. And prices are very high in Moscow. It's the least affordable city in Russia. Average Moscow apartment outside of the center starts around $210,000 or more.

ER, thank you for sharing your perspective on POZ's impressions. Endlessly fascinating to me.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

ER, thank you for sharing your perspective on POZ's impressions. Endlessly fascinating to me.

Perhaps it was the people I was hanging out with. They were solidly middle class in a country that has few people in the middle class (something that is rapidly happening to the US and is basically universal in every other country).

What he explains above I did not experience at all.

The problem is the mis-perception between the Russians who live in large cities like Moscow and the Russians who live in villages. Most of what he describes above is referring to people from small villages IMO.

Yes, food is expensive even if you go to the average restaurant. Paying for two people at the average restaurant will cost about 2,000 rubles (even water is not free) and if you figure that 1 dollar = about 35 to 36 rubles you can surmise that there are about 3 dollars in every 100 rubles.

The average meal at a restaurant will be 60 dollars whereas in the US the average meal can be 30 to 40.

The people I was with owned their own apartment (but it was like going back to 1990) or owned their own "room in an apartment" that they shared. Most Russians will live with their parents and own a car instead of living alone owning an apartment but not having a car.

Yes, the average Russian man's lifespan is 59 years, grotesquely low compared to the average Russian female lifespan of 79.

WWII caused an imbalance between men and women because 29 million Russians died during WWII defending the country (mostly men). In fact the city of Volgograd formally Stalingrad lost 1 million people before they eventually repelled the invading Germans. The population of Volgograd was 1 million at the time. The entire city was wiped out and eventually was repopulated from surrounding villages by the government at great costs.

If you have a decent job with a good wage you can do well. My friend had two iphone 5s, one her private phone and one for work.

I can tell you now that Americans drink 5x more than Russians. When I told them that we have holidays like St. Patricks day dedicated to going to the street/bars to drink starting at 10 am on Saturday until midnight they looked shocked as no Russian would even think of doing that.





“If I had an hour to solve a problem and my life depended on it, I would use the first 55 minutes determining the proper question to ask, for once I knew the proper question, I could solve the problem in less than five minutes.”

- Albert Einstein

[ER59]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

You did not experience any of what I am describing because you are a foreigner, you are white, you do not speak Russian and you were travelling there. Russians are excellent hosts and could be extremely warm and inviting; all of them are very proud of their history especially their victory in WWII; some of them are non-materialistic; some of them are extremely intelligent … as could be people in any other country. It all depends on who you are and with whom you are socializing.

Based on your

When I told them that we have holidays like St. Patricks day dedicated to going to the street/bars to drink starting at 10 am on Saturday until midnight they looked shocked as no Russian would even think of doing that.

I can tell you that your Russian friends are presented a much better picture of Russia than it truly is. Many Russian alcoholics drink every day as if it is St. Patricks day. Many men in Russia drink in the morning to ease a nasty hangover: they are unable to function without it. Here is a good article on the subject. http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...russia/279965/

I took a train from St. Petersburg to Moscow. In the morning I got up and was looking out of train’s window as I was doing in my childhood. I saw multiple graffiti: “Heil Putin! Crimea is ours, east Ukraine next.” I am Russian and cannot comprehend what’s happened to the country that was fighting against and won the war against fascism but now is having “Heil Putin!” on walls. I know I should not judge the whole country based on graffiti, but those "heils" hit me hard.

[lektrode]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

..Many Russian alcoholics drink every day as if it is St. Patricks day. ....

hell, the way things are goin over here in the USSA, it mights well be!

speaking as an AoIA (american of irish ancestry, aka: a harp/mick/paddy ;)
and to paraphrase the pop/hit from the 80's(?) .... and never mind what happnin with the 'federal' reserve

"i think i'm turning (russian) japanese, i really think so...."




but HEY - it's 5'oclock somewhere!



and eye see that the goog has decided to monetize ALL the eyeballs on youtube
excuse the ads (that ya can no longer skip...)

[Southernguy]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

What to do with the money….?

May 7, 2014merijnknibbeLeave a commentGo to comments
From: Ernst Labruyere (the Ernst’s economy for you blog)
“And now that we stashed billions of dollars away from the American Internal Revenue Service, what are we going to do with it?!”. Clueless American multinationals reveal their innovational and moral vacuum. Shareholders beware!
This morning (April 30), I was attracted by two different articles from the same printed, Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf (www.telegraaf.nl). And by coincidence, both articles were about gargantuous American corporations and they both represented the same problem of endless wealth-without-a-purpose.
Both articles could be summarized as follows:

• It is one thing to legally(!) hide money from the American Internal Revenue Service;
• However, it is another thing to find useful purposes for this “dead cash”, without having to move it to American soil administratively, where it would be subject to taxing after all.

Besides telling something about the unscrupulousness of 21st century tax avoidance, the articles gave also valuable insights in the distorting effects of the continuous, extremely low interest rates, which have been maintained during the last 10 years.
These interest rates have had an enormous influence on the cash flows and profitability of large corporations. And now these corporations are holding such massive stockpiles of cash, that they really are clueless about what to do with it.
The following article came from the paper version of De Telegraaf. That is why there is no link available, unfortunately:
Apple cuts every corner, in order to not pay taxes for the many dozens of billions of dollars, that the company keeps outside the United States. At this moment, the company’s ‘war chest’ contains $150 billion, collected from past profits, of which $130 billion is stashed outside the US.
Repatriation of this money would mean that 35% of taxes should be paid for every billion that is taken home. Nevertheless, Apple – the world’s most valuable corporation – needs now billions of dollars to fund a vast stock buy-back program; these billions are borrowed currently. Last weekend, the word was spread that Apple is planning to deploy a series of bonds to the tune of $17 billion.
Last week, Apple announced that it is planning to buy back $90 billion in stock, instead of the earlier announced $60 billion.
And the next article in De Telegraaf was about the pharmaceutical behemoth Pfizer, which is planning to take over British/Swedish pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca for a ‘petty’ $100 billion.
Pharmaceutical giants desire takeovers to the tune of billions of dollars
The stock rates of giant pharmaceuticals in Stockholm, London, New York and Zurich have been jumping up and down, during the last few days. Investors are hooked on a game of Monopoly, which reminds the objective viewer of the merger and takeover frenzy of 2007.
Central question: which company will get the best combination of blockbusters in hands during the coming years, now the money to finance mergers and takeovers is so amply available.
“We have an excellent track record, when it comes to takeovers”, according to financial executive Frank D’Amelio of Pfizer, yesterday during an unplanned conference call.
D’Amelio exhausted himself, while emphasizing which economies of scale the combination with the British/Swedish AstraZeneca would yield. The fact that hours earlier the Europeans politely, but resolutely showed him the door, will undoubtedly have helped with the decision to organize this conference call.
The rationale behind the takeover bid is simple: both companies are strong in cardiovascular diseases, which makes that economies of scale will be achievable. Further, AstraZeneca owns more and better drugs against diabetes and vaccines against a number of European diseases.
Last, but not least, Pfizer has a stash of $70 billion in cash at (among others) the Cayman Islands, which would be taxed when being spent in the United States. Spending this money in Europe, to fund a takeover, will keep the money away from the US Internal Revenue Service.
The CEO of Pfizer, Ian Read, wants to split up the new company after the takeover, using an alternative division model. Old and familiar drugs would end up in one company, while auspicious – often biomedical – drugs and innovations would be stored in the other subsidiary. Both subsidiaries would be legally established under one, British holding, enabling the company to make use of the favorable tax regime.
To the objective reader both articles are merciless testimonies upon:

• The massive stockpiles of ‘dead’ cash which are held by these large corporations nowadays;
• The ruthless tax avoidance of the same corporations, revealing these companies as greedy ‘Scrooge-esque’ spongers, which do seemingly EVERYTHING to avoid paying a single dollar in taxes;
• At the same time, the blatant cluelessness of these very corporations about what to do with their money.

One of my first articles in 2011 contained a few snips about a nowadays more topical-than-ever subject, which cannot be seen lose from the aforementioned articles about Apple and Pfizer: to which country do the large, multinational corporations pledge their allegiance?
Peter Atwater, the eminent Professor of Minyanville and one of the brightest macro-economical analysts I know, wrote a very interesting article about it yesterday: Pledging Allegiance: Multinationals in an Increasingly Nationalist World.
The article discussed the fact that multinationals like Shell, Anheuser-Busch and General Electric cannot be “stateless” anymore, but have to choose very cautiously the passport they will be carrying. “It’s not what your country can do for you, but it’s what you can do for your country”. Those are words from arguably the most famous statesman, John F. Kennedy and almost those same words were used by President Obama lately, when addressing the multinationals.
Apple, an all-American corporation with strong Californian ties and countless US customers, rather borrows $17 billion through a bond deployment, than that it pays taxes for (parts of) the $130 billion in non-American money that the company already owns.
Their message: “Yes, we make usage of the whole American financial, societal and physical infrastructure, but we don’t want to spend a single dime on taxes. Get the funk out of here!!!”
And for what purpose does Apple want to use this borrowed money?! For a not $60, but $90(!) billion stock buy-back program! Isn’t it fantastic?!
In my – not so humble – opinion, this is the clearest message that Apple’s innovation is caught in a vacuum of which it can’t escape anymore: perished after the unfortunate death of Steve Jobs.
A few weeks ago, I already wrote in this article:
I’m not a particular fan of companies, which pay out excess dividends to their shareholders or enter into vast stock buyback programs. That can’t be much of a surprise for regular readers of this blog.
While such buy-back events and excess dividend payments always seem moments of great happiness for the shareholders, I think that it is in reality an ‘early warning signal’ about the company that performs such actions.
Of course, there is little wrong with a one-off party for the shareholders. These were after all the people, who had the faith to invest in your company and who enabled it to grow to something great. As a company, it is good to show your gratitude to your shareholders every now and then.
However, too often it happens that large dividend payments and stock buy-back programs point at a blatant lack of smarter, better yielding investments and long-term goals within a company. And consequently, to a lack of long-term vision within the executive management of such a company.
This very behaviour of Apple leaves me no other conclusion, than that Apple seems doomed to become an investors nightmare: a cash cow that might soon turn into a dog!
Pfizer, the company mentioned in the second article, shows that it suffers from the same problem, although the symptoms differ considerably.
The company holds $70 billion in “dead cash” at one of the world’s most infamous tax havens, but it is too greedy [this is my opinion(!) - EL] to pay taxes for it in the United States. This, in spite of the fact that Pfizer is an all-American company, which again uses the whole US infrastructure to its own benefit.
This United States tax “mill stone” allegedly forces Pfizer to spend all their offshore money on AstraZeneca; not that they need this European company in order to survive, or ‘because they are worth it?!’. No, they don’t!
Many people know by heart that such mega-mergers seldomly yield the economies-of-scale, which were promised in advance and often rather bring the total opposite: billions in lost money on company and ICT restructuring and structurally worse results for both companies than before.
No, the reason is simply that Pfizer doesn’t know what else to do with the money stashed away, as ‘bringing it home’ is impossible in their narrow-minded thought process. Pfizer won’t use their money to invent new antibiotics that the world so desperately needs nowadays, or to invent a new drug against malaria which could save millions of lives. These drugs will not be cash cows and therefore they are not worth investing in.
Instead, Pfizer wants to buy AstraZeneca! Really! And afterwards, the whole future ‘Two companies & One holding’ structure of “PfizerAstra” seems to be established only to further avoid taxes. And this tax avoidance is enabled by the narrowminded European countries, which are involved in a ‘tax race to the bottom’.
Shareholders, draw your conclusions about these two companies. Take the cash and “Sell, Mortimer, sell“.

[DSpencer]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

Perhaps it was the people I was hanging out with. They were solidly middle class in a country that has few people in the middle class (something that is rapidly happening to the US and is basically universal in every other country).

What he explains above I did not experience at all.

With all due respect I don't know how you could possibly hope to distill the culture of 150 million people living in the largest country by land mass into a few paragraphs based on on visiting once or even several times. I've never been to Russia and I do appreciate you posting your experiences. I just think you should be cautious extrapolating a few observations into far reaching conclusions about the entire country.

I've lived in the US my whole life, if someone asked me to sum up the American culture into a few paragraphs I would hardly know where to start.

I can tell you now that Americans drink 5x more than Russians. When I told them that we have holidays like St. Patricks day dedicated to going to the street/bars to drink starting at 10 am on Saturday until midnight they looked shocked as no Russian would even think of doing that.

Case in point, you can say that Americans drink more, but if you put any faith in the WHO statistics the opposite is true.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

Fair enough. But in all cultures experiencing it matters and even from one experience you can get a high level overview of what makes up that culture.

The reason why most Americans cannot sum up the American culture into a few paragraphs is because there is no American culture. It doesn't exist, at least not anymore, IMO. In all my years thinking about this question; What is American culture? The only answer I can come up with is: Business/money/entrepreneurship.

I understand from the American perspective it is difficult to sum up a culture in a few paragraphs but I bet if you started asking foreigners/immigrants they could and do frequently sum up their culture in a few paragraphs. It is easily recognized and described but American's can't unless they belong to a subculture say "country culture."

I have contemplated this question since I was 18 due to the questions the father of my previous girlfriend from Iran asked. "He would ask, what is American culture?" From his perspective Americans had no culture, nothing they could point to that could describe the country in whole, no values, no norms that were easily distinguishable by individuals outside of the culture.

Unlike Persian culture where he could point to identifying facts, thought processes, history, food, dance, holidays, religion etc he could bring up nothing that is considered universally American culture.

Every country I have ever been to I could feel the culture in the air, the way the people act, their religion, their food, their way of life.

The lack of American culture is what I believe leads to the extraordinary prescription drug use by Americans for all kinds of various "problems" not just ones associated with food. It also constitutes to the lost sense of direction most Americans feel in their life.

For the most part the American culture is deplorable.

With that said the underlying principles of business and entrepreneurship coupled with being the reserve currency issuer and having the largest most advanced military in the world, America is still the best place to live.

Culturally? America is one of the worst countries to live in if you want to experience real culture.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Hudson: Later than we're told

ER, when did you leave Russia?