Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

[BadJuju]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

Elect independent legislatures to replace all representatives currently in office- 60% of the American public want to replace the entire Congress.

All lobbying is illegal and forbidden

A limited tax payer supported budget is available for elections. No other money allowed for politicians. This will focus on the real issues, not character attacks and lies.

Corruption of any kind; be it government, business, union; is punished by jail sentences and fines equal to what was earned via the illegal act.

All government actions are public and transparent.

These are all things I could get behind even if I disagree with all your rhetoric about the evils of communism and socialism.

[vt]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

Capitalism can be evil too, but really needs greater freedom to operate most efficiently. Free, competitive markets in a society governed by the Bill of Rights has the best chance or reducing inequality and raising living standards.

But we need to control the spread of elites under any government "ism". We also need to produce more jobs, better education, better health care, etc.
I don't see the evidence of greater wealth for all and greater freedom in any socialist or communist government in the last 200 years.

[GRG55]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

So much confusion in this thread.

We're not confused. Socialist is the same as Communist...the "ist" gives it away. And Communism is pretty much the same as Catholicism...they both start with a "C" and want to save the poor. Saving the poor requires lots and lost of money, so useful to have a reflationary Monetarist (You're right, we did it. We're very sorry.) to print the money. Not to be confused with a reactionary Monarchist (they're the ones that already have most of the money). Of course in this enlightened age the filthy rich Monarchs have been replaced with even filthier richer Oligarchs. And we know that all the Oligarchs came from one Socialist Paradise or another. So being Socialist must be all about making lots and lots of money. Which leaves being Capitalist all about public welfare for bankers, who store your money and charge you a fee if you ever want any of it back.

Can't imagine why you thought we were confused...

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

Fewer French cars???

Edit Added: I see I should have read the whole thread first...Milton got there first!!

Point is…issues are complex. France bet on diesel and lost. Auto industry subsidies and preferential taxes for diesel fuel guided purchases, but there is no indication the “market” would have done any better. GDI engines are 10 times as bad as diesel, more fuel efficient, but also more polluting. The car companies are balking at installing filters at minimal costs.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

Anyone who thinks they can understand what is going on in Venezuela by reading or watching foreign media is deluded. To frame it as Capitalism vs. Socialism is to dumb it down below pandering.

Two years ago I sat and listened to a super rich Venezuelan man have a knock-down-drag-out with his 22-year old daughter. During the first half, they were not connecting.

The father’s refrain was, “What ******* time is it in Caracas?
(Chavez moved the clocks ahead ½ an hour)
The daughter’s refrain was, “What percentage of the population are slaves?”

Eventually, she went for the jugular, airing dirty laundry. “So Jose (renter) moves out and Rosa (one of their maids) goes in to pick up the crumbs…empties, a few pieces of plywood, and some pencils, and you grab the ******* pencils.”

“Rosa couldn’t ******* read!”

[jk]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

Dare I say it?

Replace all Citroens and Peugeots with Teslas!

and replace gitanes with malboro ultra lights. problem solved.

[aaron]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

In my opinion, Capitalism needs to be balanced by something. Historically, as I understand it, that counter-balance had been religion in the United States and common law. This does not seem to be working anymore. There was also high estate taxes for those who ignored the common dogma and amassed great wealth. 90% or something, right?

In China, Capitalism's counter-balance is the strong central government. Hundreds of millions of people there have been brought out of poverty, so it is hard to argue with the results.

In the U.S. there are more poor people now than ever.

As for "freedom", it is tough to tell. When I visited China, Tienanmen's massacre was taboo to talk about. We also have topics we do not talk about in public places: 911, our military (sacred), and other topics I am sure.

In the U.S., it is easy to track citizens. If government cannot do it, data can be purchased from private industry. I

In China, the government tries to give health care to those they can. In the United States we make sure people in privately run prisons get the very best health care in the world, including gender change surgery.

[FrankL]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

For sure.

The air quality index for Paris hit 180 last week.

What's the solution? 100% tax on cars? Odd-even driving? 10 euros to enter the city? Free public transportation?

From personal experience, they've been providing free public transport in a couple of big French cities the last few days (since Friday?).

and it is something I've never understood. Why free public transport? People who drive cars aren't driving them from cost incentives (public transport inside cities in France is already very cheap, as the normal prices are already subsidised. For example, in Lyon you can get unlimited passes that cost around 17 euros per week).

I've seen test results from experiments with free public transport in other countries, and the result was that it rather than decreasing the overall 'road pressure' (moving car drivers into public transport), it raised the total amount of people in transport; There's an influx of people who wouldn't normally use transport at all, because it is free. (i.e. do shopping further away from home, make extra visits to friends/relatives, etc.).

And on top of that, it requires huge subsidies (both for the people who normally pay for it, and have no problem paying for it, as well as for the tickets of the people who use transport for trivial purposes). What a monumental waste of public money!

The road tax (as used in London), or only allowing half of the cars into the city on each given day (as used in Paris right now), sounds like a much more effective solution. In Grenoble they ban cars from driving in the city centre that older than 10 years, in order to reduce the pollution levels. However, air quality is still very poor .

[Woodsman]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

We're not confused. Socialist is the same as Communist...the "ist" gives it away. And Communism is pretty much the same as Catholicism...they both start with a "C" and want to save the poor. Saving the poor requires lots and lost of money, so useful to have a reflationary Monetarist (You're right, we did it. We're very sorry.) to print the money. Not to be confused with a reactionary Monarchist (they're the ones that already have most of the money). Of course in this enlightened age the filthy rich Monarchs have been replaced with even filthier richer Oligarchs. And we know that all the Oligarchs came from one Socialist Paradise or another. So being Socialist must be all about making lots and lots of money. Which leaves being Capitalist all about public welfare for bankers, who store your money and charge you a fee if you ever want any of it back.

Can't imagine why you thought we were confused...

I think you put your finger right on it, GRG. Lewis Carroll summed up the mindset nicely:

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense.
Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't.
And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would.
You see?

[flintlock]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

The gulf between what any ideology purports to be and what it is in reality is usually quite large. Regardless, cronyism is usually present in all economies and the ideology is merely the ruse to gain power. The more strictly adherent to any ideology, the more dangerous. The hazards are always greatest at the extremes. But for some reason, humans gravitate to one or the other, with no patience for moderation.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

I think you put your finger right on it, GRG. Lewis Carroll summed up the mindset nicely:

I was having a conversation the other day with a fellow who insisted that every major party involved in WWII was 'socialist.' FDR was a socialist. Hitler was a socialist. Stalin was a socialist. Even the British Queen and the Japanese Emperor were socialists. And it was just one big fight between socialists and other socialists. Socialist. Socialist. Socialist, socialist socialist? Socialist socialist. Socialist.

[vt]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

http://www.geekwire.com/2014/hey-sea...vations-youre/

[GRG55]

Re: Another Socialist Paridise Bites The Dust

I was having a conversation the other day with a fellow who insisted that every major party involved in WWII was 'socialist.' FDR was a socialist. Hitler was a socialist. Stalin was a socialist. Even the British Queen and the Japanese Emperor were socialists. And it was just one big fight between socialists and other socialists. Socialist. Socialist. Socialist, socialist socialist? Socialist socialist. Socialist...

All those WWII Socialists were secretly trying to become Oligarchs...by stealing everyone else's land and assets. And deep in their little socialist hearts the reason they wanted to become Oligarchs was to save the poor...at least that is what they said, non?