wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

[mooncliff]

Yes, the subsidies muddy the waters, but solar continues to drop in cost, and soon even without subsidies will be cheaper than even natural gas.

http://www.treehugger.com/renewable-...wer-texas.html

[GRG55]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

Yes, the subsidies muddy the waters, but solar continues to drop in cost, and soon even without subsidies will be cheaper than even natural gas.

http://www.treehugger.com/renewable-...wer-texas.html

Yep...and what, pray tell, backs up that 4 cent wind power so that consumers, who expect the light to go on when they hit the switch, aren't left in the dark when there's no blowin' in the wind?

[metalman]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

Yep...and what, pray tell, backs up that 4 cent wind power so that consumers, who expect the light to go on when they hit the switch, aren't left in the dark when there's no blowin' in the wind?

usa at night with gas & coal...



usa at night solar & wind only...



any questions?

[GRG55]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

And if solar and wind is so cheap, why are electricity prices in Germany rising?

Is it the cost of back up power generation that has to be borne by the ratepayers?

I think most urban distributed solar power installations are still connected to the grid, and expect that to be available in the event their own installed source is not capable of meeting immediate demand?

My own bias is that solar, as one example, is not going to be truly economic until it can be built in scale. We are seeing the start of these sorts of large solar installations in Cali and South Africa, and I think that is where the future lies...utility scale installations.

[Southernguy]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

usa at night with gas & coal...



usa at night solar & wind only...



any questions?

Hmmm... does wind stop blowing by night in the USA...?

[Techdread]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

Why does it have to be a Binary Solution?

We can have back up Natural Gas Stations until the technologies are perfected.

[moke]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

Hmmm... does wind stop blowing by night in the USA...?

Wind is due to uneven heating of the earth by the sun, so yeah, it's usually far less windy at night.

http://blog.chicagoweathercenter.com...nger-at-night/

[peakishmael]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

Why does it have to be a Binary Solution?

We can have back up Natural Gas Stations until the technologies are perfected.

+1. Pretending that the lights will go out at night is fear-mongering. We will never stop burning fossil fuels, until they are gone. In the meantime, augmenting them with a bit of wind and solar is a good idea, for the good of the planet and for the long term.

[BadJuju]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

Aw yea! Compromise.

[rlskaggs2003]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

Wind is due to uneven heating of the earth by the sun, so yeah, it's usually far less windy at night.

http://blog.chicagoweathercenter.com...nger-at-night/

Sometimes, but not always. The California ISO website provides a wealth of information regarding the daily aggregate output of California renewables to give you a glimpse of what a region with substantial renewable energy looks like from a daily supply perspective.

http://www.caiso.com/market/Pages/Re...blesWatch.aspx

http://www.caiso.com/Pages/TodaysOutlook.aspx

If you spend some time scrolling through a handful of the daily charts at any given period you can see quite a bit of supply variability (both wind and solar) which, along with demand variability, has to be managed with quick starting, fast ramping facilities, predominately nat gas peaking plants.

As an aside, and in reference to the title of the thread, one can't really talk about (economically viable) 4 cent wind or 5 cent solar without mentioning the net capacity factor involved in arriving at those price levels. They go hand in hand. E.g., a windfarm at 4 cents may be economic in west Texas or Iowa where 45%-50% NCFs aren't uncommon, but it won't be close to economic in other regions where NCFs are 25% to 40%. And, if you eliminate PTC/ITC.......

[Polish_Silver]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

Yes, the subsidies muddy the waters, but solar continues to drop in cost, and soon even without subsidies will be cheaper than even natural gas.

http://www.treehugger.com/renewable-...wer-texas.html

Is a single country getting 25% of it's power from wind and solar combined?

Maybe it will happen in the future.
But I think policy has to be driven by proven technology, not hope.

[vt]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

http://www.motherjones.com/environme...climate-change

Well, if it uses a lot of energy to grow pot, simply require it to be grown using solar and wind.

[Southernguy]

Re: wind 4 cents, solar 5, nat gas 7, coal 10, nuclear 13 in Texas

Uruguay has got most of it's electric energy from hydro for decades.
Now, as demand has outgrown possibilities to further develop hydro there is a plan to stimulate wind.
They say that by 2016 termal shall be only 10% of EE.